Pansexual
Medicine cat
Nettle
woof woof
Pronouns: She/her, They/them.
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Post by Nettle on Feb 8, 2024 3:05:01 GMT -5
Put that on a postcard... Wait-
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Post by forcepaw on Feb 8, 2024 3:36:42 GMT -5
Appledusk was in a abusive relationship with maple, she was way too possessive and controlling so naturally he tried to move on and get away from her, he obv couldn’t break up with her In no way were they in an abusive relationship, so don't water down the term. They were perfectly fine with one another until the kit-drowning situation where he threw her under the bus to stay in his own Clan. Prior to that he was actively cheating on both Mapleshade AND Reedshine, and both of them were shocked. There is nothing implying that he was trying to "move on and get away from her" when in the end they only broke up cause he got caught. You're free to have your own opinions, but that doesn't change what is canonly fact. She was actually quite possessive and she literally caused Apple’s kits to die which is a valid reason for him to leave her
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Post by Sweetsun on Feb 8, 2024 7:10:02 GMT -5
I like because she is such an interesting character & her story (I think) is very entertaining.
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Post by lazzylake on Feb 8, 2024 9:25:25 GMT -5
In no way were they in an abusive relationship, so don't water down the term. They were perfectly fine with one another until the kit-drowning situation where he threw her under the bus to stay in his own Clan. Prior to that he was actively cheating on both Mapleshade AND Reedshine, and both of them were shocked. There is nothing implying that he was trying to "move on and get away from her" when in the end they only broke up cause he got caught. You're free to have your own opinions, but that doesn't change what is canonly fact. She was actually quite possessive and she literally caused Apple’s kits to die which is a valid reason for him to leave her Mapleshade had no intentions to let her kits die beforehand. She originally wanted to take her children to RiverClan where they would be "accepted" by Appledusk and his clanmates. Ultimately, it was in her desperation to find a home that she decided to let her kits cross the river. It was a reckless and fatal decision on her part, but Mapleshade was too caught up in her fantasy to think logically at that time. There is also clear evidence that Appledusk cheated on Reedshine before Mapleshade was exiled, as they are written to be mates when Reedshine defends Appledusk for the mistakes he made. The drowning of Mapleshade's kits die not directly cause him to leave her; Appledusk chose to be mates with Reedshine and Mapleshade would've had no way of knowing unless she directly visited RiverClan herself.
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Post by forcepaw on Feb 9, 2024 4:20:06 GMT -5
She was actually quite possessive and she literally caused Apple’s kits to die which is a valid reason for him to leave her Mapleshade had no intentions to let her kits die beforehand. She originally wanted to take her children to RiverClan where they would be "accepted" by Appledusk and his clanmates. Ultimately, it was in her desperation to find a home that she decided to let her kits cross the river. It was a reckless and fatal decision on her part, but Mapleshade was too caught up in her fantasy to think logically at that time. There is also clear evidence that Appledusk cheated on Reedshine before Mapleshade was exiled, as they are written to be mates when Reedshine defends Appledusk for the mistakes he made. The drowning of Mapleshade's kits die not directly cause him to leave her; Appledusk chose to be mates with Reedshine and Mapleshade would've had no way of knowing unless she directly visited RiverClan herself. “Was too caught up in her fantasies to think logically” is not justifying anything, her kits repeatedly told her that they couldn’t cross but she forced them anyways and it’s because of her lack of critical thinking and her negligence that they died.
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Post by vectoring34 on Feb 9, 2024 11:17:35 GMT -5
Mapleshade had no intentions to let her kits die beforehand. She originally wanted to take her children to RiverClan where they would be "accepted" by Appledusk and his clanmates. Ultimately, it was in her desperation to find a home that she decided to let her kits cross the river. It was a reckless and fatal decision on her part, but Mapleshade was too caught up in her fantasy to think logically at that time. There is also clear evidence that Appledusk cheated on Reedshine before Mapleshade was exiled, as they are written to be mates when Reedshine defends Appledusk for the mistakes he made. The drowning of Mapleshade's kits die not directly cause him to leave her; Appledusk chose to be mates with Reedshine and Mapleshade would've had no way of knowing unless she directly visited RiverClan herself. “Was too caught up in her fantasies to think logically” is not justifying anything, her kits repeatedly told her that they couldn’t cross but she forced them anyways and it’s because of her lack of critical thinking and her negligence that they died. What do you think she should have done then? She didn't exactly have many options available to her when she was being exiled.
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Post by Hollyfall on Feb 9, 2024 12:54:04 GMT -5
I looked through the book and the closest instance of her being possessive would be this scene here where she sees that Reedshine and Appledusk are close:
But even then, calling it "possessive" is a bit of a stretch. Mapleshade was under the interpretation that she was Appledusk's mate, not that Appledusk had a mate in RiverClan. If you wanted to call Mapleshade a little too idealistic considering the taboo against cross-clan relationships and half-clan cats, then I'd agree, but possessive and abusive is definitely not it.
He also didn't break things off with Mapleshade because their kits died, he did it because he got caught not only cheating on Reedshine, but with a ThunderClan cat. Yeah he wasn't very happy that they died in the river (after Mapleshade is rejected from RiverClan, he does blame her for their deaths) but the first thing he does is try to do damage control by throwing Mapleshade under the bus and says he made a mistake.
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Post by lazzylake on Feb 9, 2024 16:47:55 GMT -5
I looked through the book and the closest instance of her being possessive would be this scene here where she sees that Reedshine and Appledusk are close: But even then, calling it "possessive" is a bit of a stretch. Mapleshade was under the interpretation that she was Appledusk's mate, not that Appledusk had a mate in RiverClan. If you wanted to call Mapleshade a little too idealistic considering the taboo against cross-clan relationships and half-clan cats, then I'd agree, but possessive and abusive is definitely not it. He also didn't break things off with Mapleshade because their kits died, he did it because he got caught not only cheating on Reedshine, but with a ThunderClan cat. Yeah he wasn't very happy that they died in the river (after Mapleshade is rejected from RiverClan, he does blame her for their deaths) but the first thing he does is try to do damage control by throwing Mapleshade under the bus and says he made a mistake. Thank you for including the quote! I was going to include it as I was re-reading a couple of scenes but I didn’t want my post getting to lengthy. And yes, forcepaw you are right that Mapleshade’s carelessness caused her kits to drown, but I’m not necessarily trying to defend her. Though, I feel like it was Appledusk who assumed the worst with the kits drowning. Their relationship was very poorly planned from either perspective and neither of them had the proper time to discuss what to do for the kits. Appledusk said that RiverClan’s nightly patrols doubled after the Sunningrocks battle, and Mapleshade, the one carrying the kits, was much more optimistic about the cross-clan relationship since she had more time to flesh out what to do. That optimism ultimately caused things to go south. Mapleshade should’ve prepared for the worst case scenario, especially after her and her mate’s clans were recovering from a devastating battle. I genuinely think this book is really interesting since mostly everyone is morally ambiguous, even outside of Mapleshade’s perspective. Just because I believe Mapleshade was put in a bad spot with her kits doesn’t mean I empathize with her actions afterwards. Sorry if it feels like I’m repeating what everybody’s already said, but all of you make very good points!
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Pansexual
Medicine cat
Nettle
woof woof
Pronouns: She/her, They/them.
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Post by Nettle on Feb 9, 2024 17:08:12 GMT -5
Appledusk was in a abusive relationship with maple, she was way too possessive and controlling so naturally he tried to move on and get away from her, he obv couldn’t break up with her In no way were they in an abusive relationship, so don't water down the term. They were perfectly fine with one another until the kit-drowning situation where he threw her under the bus to stay in his own Clan. Prior to that he was actively cheating on both Mapleshade AND Reedshine, and both of them were shocked. There is nothing implying that he was trying to "move on and get away from her" when in the end they only broke up cause he got caught. You're free to have your own opinions, but that doesn't change what is canonly fact. bravo
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Pansexual
Medicine cat
Nettle
woof woof
Pronouns: She/her, They/them.
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Post by Nettle on Feb 9, 2024 17:28:13 GMT -5
Also, lazzylake, I don't see how Mapleshade was being careless? Frecklewish would attack her if she stayed in ThunderClan, going almost anywhere else would have resulted in the same event of her kits drowning, also, relying on the FATHER of the kits isn't an irrational decision, as Mapleshade, after being betrayed by her clan, would certainly expect her mate to take in her and her kits. She was also unaware at the time that Appledusk had become mates with Reedshine. Plus, she was still grieving, and in a minor part of her decision, her grief probably affected her final decision.
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Post by Pyropelt on Feb 10, 2024 14:33:32 GMT -5
I like her. And her kits too, making it extra sad when they died and she grieved them. I think it was a bad situation all around. Oakstar for banishing them, Frecklewish for stalking them, Appledusk and Reedshine for being cold to her after the drowning. Even Darkstar for not allowing Mapleshade to be near her kits graves. I feel sorry for Mapleshade and her kits.
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Post by thewinterblaze on Feb 10, 2024 19:10:12 GMT -5
Also, lazzylake , I don't see how Mapleshade was being careless? Frecklewish would attack her if she stayed in ThunderClan, going almost anywhere else would have resulted in the same event of her kits drowning, also, relying on the FATHER of the kits isn't an irrational decision, as Mapleshade, after being betrayed by her clan, would certainly expect her mate to take in her and her kits. She was also unaware at the time that Appledusk had become mates with Reedshine. Plus, she was still grieving, and in a minor part of her decision, her grief probably affected her final decision. I'm sure there's more and it's been quite a while since I've read the novella but she could've went to Fourtrees, she could've avoided the river altogether and followed the Thunderpath along the ShadowClan border which would've lead her to Barley's farm. Obviously Barley won't be there but it could still be used for shelter and food. Hell she could've simply gone the opposite direction and went to Twolegplace. There are a hundred different things she could've done instead of going over a river during a storm.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Feb 10, 2024 20:42:49 GMT -5
Also, lazzylake , I don't see how Mapleshade was being careless? Frecklewish would attack her if she stayed in ThunderClan, going almost anywhere else would have resulted in the same event of her kits drowning, also, relying on the FATHER of the kits isn't an irrational decision, as Mapleshade, after being betrayed by her clan, would certainly expect her mate to take in her and her kits. She was also unaware at the time that Appledusk had become mates with Reedshine. Plus, she was still grieving, and in a minor part of her decision, her grief probably affected her final decision. I'm sure there's more and it's been quite a while since I've read the novella but she could've went to Fourtrees, she could've avoided the river altogether and followed the Thunderpath along the ShadowClan border which would've lead her to Barley's farm. Obviously Barley won't be there but it could still be used for shelter and food. Hell she could've simply gone the opposite direction and went to Twolegplace. There are a hundred different things she could've done instead of going over a river during a storm. Referencing a thread that discussed this already here. Mapleshade didn't exactly have the best options. The farm is the worse option than the river because it's much further, it also doesn't rule out the possibility of her getting jumped by Frecklewish or her former clanmates on the way, and even rogues (like she was anyways). Other bigger predators, like foxes and dogs. Or even her kits dying to hyperthermia or later sickness from being in the rain so long. And no where in the novella did she even know about the farm prior since she just seems to find it by chance. Also, a mother, walking with her kits, by a dangerous Thunderpath, during a storm, isn't safe either, no Clan cat in the right mind would do that tbh.
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Post by vectoring34 on Feb 10, 2024 23:48:49 GMT -5
I'm sure there's more and it's been quite a while since I've read the novella but she could've went to Fourtrees, she could've avoided the river altogether and followed the Thunderpath along the ShadowClan border which would've lead her to Barley's farm. Obviously Barley won't be there but it could still be used for shelter and food. Hell she could've simply gone the opposite direction and went to Twolegplace. There are a hundred different things she could've done instead of going over a river during a storm. Referencing a thread that discussed this already here. Mapleshade didn't exactly have the best options. The farm is the worse option than the river because it's much further, it also doesn't rule out the possibility of her getting jumped by Frecklewish or her former clanmates on the way, and even rogues (like she was anyways). Other bigger predators, like foxes and dogs. Or even her kits dying to hyperthermia or later sickness from being in the rain so long. And no where in the novella did she even know about the farm prior since she just seems to find it by chance. Also, a mother, walking with her kits, by a dangerous Thunderpath, during a storm, isn't safe either, no Clan cat in the right mind would do that tbh. To offer a mild clarification, she is aware of the barn that Barley later inhabits, as she does mention having hunted in it as an apprentice. However, that one is very, very far away, to the point of requiring traveling herbs, so yeah, it would have been impractical for tired kits in a rainstorm. Myler's barn is closer, but that one she didn't know about it.
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Post by Saint Ambrosef on Feb 11, 2024 0:56:45 GMT -5
A good villain but overused. She had her story, she doesn’t need to keep getting brought up outside of it.
Also pls not the “did mapleshade have other options” debate again
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