|
Post by Frostedsun on Jan 25, 2024 4:06:25 GMT -5
Okay, so kind of unpopular, but I think TNP was literally the worst arc. I just feel as though it was so sudden that all of a sudden the cats are moved to the lake. We got one arc of them in the forest and then it's just put in a completely different setting. Not only this, the protags I found annoying. Bramble I don't even know why was just hard to read about, Crow and Squirrel constantly fighting, Feather x Crow was weird, Storm x Squirrel was also really weird, and the whole thing just kind of felt unnecessary to me. Am I saying they shouldn't have moved to the lake? No. But I am saying we should have at least gotten two arc before the big move. Also, we didn't get Tawnypelt as a protag. Like- what??? I was really desperate to learn about her character during this time. We already knew plenty about Brambleclaw from when he was an apprentice, and I felt like Tawnypelt deserved so much more time.
Thoughts?
|
|
|
Post by đđĨđđđ¤đŦđ¨đĨ on Jan 25, 2024 5:16:48 GMT -5
AVoS was worse.
|
|
|
Post by đąđđđđđđđđđđ on Jan 25, 2024 6:10:39 GMT -5
I still think AVoS was way worse than TNP, especially in the second half due to killing off the main villain at the end of book three and replacing him with two annoying wannabes (Sleekwhisker and Tigerstar II). It's the worst arc, in my opinion. Plus, TNP is just still utterly iconic in the fandom in terms of its characters and some plotlines.
Granted, TNP is my favorite arc to this day even though it certainly has many problems. A lot of it does have to do with my childhood nostalgia for it, I admit. That being said though, I know and agree that TNP does have a lot of problems as an arc.
For me, it was moreso the second half that had the most problems. Starting with the canon pairings and the more spread out plotlines. The love drama was definitely the most annoying part though. FeatherCrow, LeafCrow, BrambleSquirrel as well as the BrambleSquirrelAsh and BrightCloudDaisy love triangle bs was the the worst and I did not enjoy any of it. Although the fallout drama of LeafCrow's kits was at least more interesting in the two following arcs, so there's that.
Most people tend to have the biggest problem with how the tribe got introduced and subsequently handled though. At best, people think they are a boring addition (not just in TNP but all other arcs featuring them afterwards). At worst, they are seen as yet another case of stereotyping Native American culture. There are a few essays/documents talking about this specific issue online.
When it comes to the protagonists, I continue to think that Tawnypelt should've replaced Brambleclaw as the protagonist and when it comes to the "training in hell with evil dad and brother" plot. Brambleclaw already rejected Tigerstar as an apprentice at the end of TPB and also distrusted Hawkfrost in the first half of TNP only to turn around in the second half because the writers needed a conflict for him after they had gotten to the new lake territories to fill up three more books with.
Tawnypelt canonically rejecting Tigerstar's invitation into training with him in the DF at the end of TNP could've definitely worked well with her previously being the protagonists who accepted it because she felt a bit lonely in ShadowClan (a few of her Clanmates did not seem to respect or trust her in canon during TNP such as Rownclaw until he became her mate in the next arc).
Plus, Tawnypelt then still naming one of her kits after Tigerstar to reclaim the name would've pissed him off even more. Although I would then switch Tigerheart's design with Flametail's to really enrage their grandfather since he then has a grandson named after him who dares to be ginger just like his biggest enemy lmao.
But anyhow, the concept of a group of animals leaving their home because of destruction or other threats has been done before and it did work out pretty well for Warriors. Even though I still miss the old forest territories and think they are better than the current ones for sure.
|
|
|
|
Post by deerspirit on Jan 25, 2024 8:12:58 GMT -5
To me the worst arcs are DOTC and AVOS. With the exception of Alderheart I was not a fan of any of the protagonists and I hated how she-cats especially Bumble and Turtle Tail were treated. I did enjoy the plot of AVOS and the first 5 books but the mess of The Raging Storm ruined the arc for me. My ranking of the arc's so far are POT, ASC, TBC, OOTS, TPB, TNP, AVOS,DOTC. I like the original writing team of the first four arcs better then the new team although I love both ASC and TBC I just think the original team worked better together.
|
|
|
Post by Saint Ambrosef on Jan 25, 2024 10:13:46 GMT -5
I donât think itâs the worst, but itâs pretty boring and I agree that the main characters were unappealing.
|
|
|
Post by iceheart on Jan 25, 2024 11:21:17 GMT -5
Compared to TBC and AVOS, it wasn't that awful. I don't agree that the main characters aren't appealing. Everyone has their quirks - Squirrelflight is feisty and a bit of a brat, Brambleclaw is determined and ambitious, Crowfeather is short-tempered and abrasive, Feathertail is gentle and soft, Stormfur is level-headed and rational, Leafpool is quiet and shy, and Tawnypelt is independent yet obstinate. The pairings that were weird existed for like, maybe one book, and then Stormfur fell in love with Brook, and Feathertail... well, literally gave her life for everyone around her. I argue that the Tribe isn't boring, I think they were a bit overused in following arcs, but it was nice to see the Clan cats interacting with a group of cats they don't know and *not* forcing their ways on them. And I argue against the "all of a sudden." It's not all of a sudden, we see the destruction of the forest as it happens, the dying and kidnapped cats, and how everyone gradually comes to the realization that they must leave. I also think that Tawnypelt is a protagonist. Being a protagonist doesn't mean you get a point of view, or vice versa, honestly. She was very prominent in every book, even the last three books where they weren't on the journey anymore.
|
|
|
Post by đąđđđđđđđđđđ on Jan 25, 2024 11:38:24 GMT -5
-snip- I also think that Tawnypelt is a protagonist. Being a protagonist doesn't mean you get a point of view, or vice versa, honestly. She was very prominent in every book, even the last three books where they weren't on the journey anymore. Tawnypelt is indeed listed as a main character for The New Prophecy on the wiki section for that arc. She is not listed as a main protagonist though. That spot goes to Brambleclaw, Squirrelflight, Leafpool, Feathertail and Stormfur due to their PoV status in that arc (despite the latter two not having many chapters as such). And I would also argue that she got the least amount of focus out of the six journey cats plus Leafpool in the fellow main cast. Brambleclaw, Squirrelflight and Leafpool were the main trio with the most stuff going on, Stormfur had the tribe storyline, Feathertail had her relationship with Crowpaw and then her sacrifice and Crowfeather had his romance drama with Leafpool later on top of that. Tawnypelt got...an infected rat bite on the quest, being not fully trusted by her Clanmates in ShadowClan during a few background scenes from the perspective of others and standing up to her father in the last book. Granted, one could say she got the role of being Brambleclaw's supporting sister who always tells him like it is (and I still love their sibling dynamic because of it) but she still did not get a proper storyline of her own in canon during TNP, in my opinion.
|
|
|
Post by Saint Ambrosef on Jan 25, 2024 11:41:37 GMT -5
I don't agree that the main characters aren't appealing. Everyone has their quirks - Squirrelflight is feisty and a bit of a brat, Brambleclaw is determined and ambitious, Crowfeather is short-tempered and abrasive, Feathertail is gentle and soft, Stormfur is level-headed and rational, Leafpool is quiet and shy, and Tawnypelt is independent yet obstinate. Not finding characters appealing is a matter of personal taste, not an objective fact you can argue against. If someone was saying that the characters had no personality, that would be different, because that's a matter of writing quality and whether the characters express identifiable traits that set them apart. But not liking the characters' established personalities is an entirely subjective opinion.
|
|
Pansexual
Medicine cat
Nettle
woof woof
Pronouns: She/her, They/them.
|
Post by Nettle on Jan 25, 2024 16:50:51 GMT -5
I agree with everyone here (AVOS being the worst) But I think what they meant was that they found TNP bad. They didn't declare TNP to be their least favorite arc, but a matter of just saying they didn't like this one. To their defensive, they have already been so many rants and discussion about Avos, there wouldn't be that much to discuss that hasn't already been said. However, I do completely agree with what they've said. Although Tawnypelt was seen and said a lot in TNP, I felt as though she deserved so much more spotlight.
|
|
|
Post by ÚŠÛŲاŲ on Jan 25, 2024 16:58:01 GMT -5
I agree with everyone here (AVOS being the worst) But I think what they meant was that they found TNP bad. They didn't declare TNP to be their least favorite arc, but a matter of just saying they didn't like this one. To their defensive, they have already been so many rants and discussion about Avos, there wouldn't be that much to discuss that hasn't already been said. However, I do completely agree with what they've said. Although Tawnypelt was seen and said a lot in TNP, I felt as though she deserved so much more spotlight. Tawnypelt is super underrated, and it felt like everyone in the main cast but her got considerable attention. Doesn't help that the Erin's ditched her for Tigerstar II.
|
|
|
Post by vectoring34 on Jan 26, 2024 0:02:54 GMT -5
TNP vs AVOS is a tough call. AVOS has a fantastic start and then dives off a cliff, but TNP is just consistently so boring. It's the walking simulator of books, with journeys that don't produce interesting obstacles and have far too much backtracking for their own good. AVOS personally irritates me more because of squandered potential but I feel like TNP is the correct answer for worst series in so far as it brought almost nothing great to the table.
|
|