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Post by Viperstrike on Jan 9, 2024 18:10:44 GMT -5
Rereading the first series rn, and I just love all the little details that are scattered throughout the books about the background characters. It’s all the little things that make the characters stand out a little bit from one another. I feel like that kind of got lost as the series went on (I can’t speak for the books released in the last five years, so maybe it’s changed.)
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Post by Frostedsun on Jan 9, 2024 18:12:56 GMT -5
I love the first series!! It's always been my favorite!
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Post by Hollyfall on Jan 9, 2024 18:32:58 GMT -5
One of the things that the latest arcs have been lacking is the individuality and personality of the background characters, almost certainly a result of the cast being a bit too big. A few of them get some spotlight and you can probably determine a few traits each with their minimal exposure, but otherwise they just simply exist to fill out the allegiances. Which is a shame because I feel there's a lot of potential there.
That's not to say all background characters in the earlier arcs got it, but it was definitely handled better imo. Obviously communities like the Clans will grow in population over time, but I wish some of that time was used to flesh out more characters so they're less of background nobodies. The new editing team have proven it's possible and they've done it before, but they just don't invest enough time into it.
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Post by Viperstrike on Jan 9, 2024 19:37:50 GMT -5
One of the things that the latest arcs have been lacking is the individuality and personality of the background characters, almost certainly a result of the cast being a bit too big. A few of them get some spotlight and you can probably determine a few traits each with their minimal exposure, but otherwise they just simply exist to fill out the allegiances. Which is a shame because I feel there's a lot of potential there. That's not to say all background characters in the earlier arcs got it, but it was definitely handled better imo. Obviously communities like the Clans will grow in population over time, but I wish some of that time was used to flesh out more characters so they're less of background nobodies. The new editing team have proven it's possible and they've done it before, but they just don't invest enough time into it. I definitely agree. One thing that stands out to me is how many kits die in the old books. Queens lose half, if not all of their kits, and the ones that survive typically aren’t given a name until they become apprentices. In comparison to the new books, where it seems every queen has a litter of four, all whom survive to go on to be Background Character #17 before dying of offscreen greencough. I also think some of the names aren’t helping. (Honeyfur, Honeyfern, Ferncloud, Fernsong, Mousefur, Mousewhisker, Molewhisker, all at once or close enough together to become confusing) And now I see there’s a Fernstripe and Fernsong at the same time…
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Aroace
#ffa100
Name Colour
𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑
Villain Enjoyer
Taking a break from the forums because my cat died. Will probably be back mid to late October.
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Post by 𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑 on Jan 10, 2024 4:28:30 GMT -5
The old ThunderClan cast from the first, second, third and fourth arc are one of the main reasons why they are my favorite Clan <3 That and the fact that they are also known as ProtagonistClan lol.
There are just way too many cats/the cast is way too big in newer arcs for each one to get enough time on the page for interesting interactions or development for most of them and that results in a lot of the newer bg characters being cardboard props with one line per book if they get lucky. Which is why I still hold out hope for a small but effective purge! In TPB, ThunderClan had like 25+ cats but in ASC it's like double that amount.
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Post by Saint Ambrosef on Jan 10, 2024 8:54:55 GMT -5
The death rate in the original series is kind of insane compared to the latter arcs, especially when it comes to non-battle induced deaths. At some point I listed all the notable times a character dies in each arc andTPB easily had the most.
Cats were dying of sickness, starvation, birth, predators, Twolegs, drowning, falls, infection, fire, exposure, etc., not to mention from being killed directly by other cats. There was a strong emphasis on the dangers of living wild that just isn’t there anymore.
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Asexual
#A3E4D7
Name Colour
🍄🎶✨Brambleheart✨🎶🍄
rdj as doctor doom was not on my bingo card
Pronouns: She/her, they/them
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Post by 🍄🎶✨Brambleheart✨🎶🍄 on Jan 10, 2024 9:19:04 GMT -5
This is why I like arcs like PoT. So much character building is made just by having it be more slice of life for most books. Same with biography SEs.
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Post by Viperstrike on Jan 10, 2024 14:38:14 GMT -5
The death rate in the original series is kind of insane compared to the latter arcs, especially when it comes to non-battle induced deaths. At some point I listed all the notable times a character dies in each arc andTPB easily had the most. Cats were dying of sickness, starvation, birth, predators, Twolegs, drowning, falls, infection, fire, exposure, etc., not to mention from being killed directly by other cats. There was a strong emphasis on the dangers of living wild that just isn’t there anymore. I felt the same way! I forgot how in Fire and Ice, Fireheart started feeling a bit disillusioned with Clan life as leafbare set in, and he witnessed all these horrible things back to back. Meanwhile, everyone else is just going about as normal, because it is. Kits dying is sad, but it happens. Life goes on. The entire Clan doesn’t have time to stop and mourn and make a huge spectacle of every disaster when they’re this close to starving to death. It really reinforced the fact that these are wild cats, and I appreciated that so much. I wish they would’ve kept that as the series went on.
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Post by iceheart on Jan 10, 2024 15:47:22 GMT -5
Yeah, I really miss that. In the first series-OOTS, I could name literally any fun fact about any background character. Toadstep wanted to be brave like Lionblaze, Honeyfern was always excitable, had a crush on Berrypaw (originally Lionblaze), Mousewhisker wanted to catch a squirrel and impress his mentor, Birchfall thought he knew it all even though he was a new warrior and got into it with Berrynose a few times, the apprentice gang was really close. Sorreltail was Leafpool's best friend, Spiderleg had a worse temper than his father, and literally I could go on. Now it's just... who is Honeyfur? Who is Leafshade? Who's Shellfur and Eaglewing? Who's Plumstone? And they try to fix it by killing cats - like, Ambermoon died off screen, but they... just make it worse by having the entire Clan populate again. And even in the first series - Runningwind doesn't have the patience for mentoring, Mousefur always stuck close to the warrior code, Frostfur was a close friend of Bluestar, Speckletail was a notorious queen with a short temper... it's really shown how worse the books have gotten with the new editing team. It's really frustrating.
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Post by Hollyfall on Jan 10, 2024 16:09:03 GMT -5
One of the things that the latest arcs have been lacking is the individuality and personality of the background characters, almost certainly a result of the cast being a bit too big. A few of them get some spotlight and you can probably determine a few traits each with their minimal exposure, but otherwise they just simply exist to fill out the allegiances. Which is a shame because I feel there's a lot of potential there. That's not to say all background characters in the earlier arcs got it, but it was definitely handled better imo. Obviously communities like the Clans will grow in population over time, but I wish some of that time was used to flesh out more characters so they're less of background nobodies. The new editing team have proven it's possible and they've done it before, but they just don't invest enough time into it. I definitely agree. One thing that stands out to me is how many kits die in the old books. Queens lose half, if not all of their kits, and the ones that survive typically aren’t given a name until they become apprentices. In comparison to the new books, where it seems every queen has a litter of four, all whom survive to go on to be Background Character #17 before dying of offscreen greencough. I also think some of the names aren’t helping. (Honeyfur, Honeyfern, Ferncloud, Fernsong, Mousefur, Mousewhisker, Molewhisker, all at once or close enough together to become confusing) And now I see there’s a Fernstripe and Fernsong at the same time… The evasiveness to killing off characters is definitely a factor. As mentioned above, the first arc (and maybe TNP too?) had a really high death rate compared to the later books, meanwhile thus far in ASC we've had no deaths from TC at all. They could definitely flesh out more characters if they wanted, but it also feels like they're not choosing to beyond a select few. Surely it wouldn't hurt to at least try, even if it falls flat. I still think the books are mostly solid and I like some of the characters they've written, but the Clan(s) don't feel as fleshed out and the background cats are forgettable. The lack of danger for living in the wild is a component that's missing too.
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Post by Viperstrike on Jan 10, 2024 16:32:36 GMT -5
Yeah, I really miss that. In the first series-OOTS, I could name literally any fun fact about any background character. Toadstep wanted to be brave like Lionblaze, Honeyfern was always excitable, had a crush on Berrypaw (originally Lionblaze), Mousewhisker wanted to catch a squirrel and impress his mentor, Birchfall thought he knew it all even though he was a new warrior and got into it with Berrynose a few times, the apprentice gang was really close. Sorreltail was Leafpool's best friend, Spiderleg had a worse temper than his father, and literally I could go on. Now it's just... who is Honeyfur? Who is Leafshade? Who's Shellfur and Eaglewing? Who's Plumstone? And they try to fix it by killing cats - like, Ambermoon died off screen, but they... just make it worse by having the entire Clan populate again. And even in the first series - Runningwind doesn't have the patience for mentoring, Mousefur always stuck close to the warrior code, Frostfur was a close friend of Bluestar, Speckletail was a notorious queen with a short temper... it's really shown how worse the books have gotten with the new editing team. It's really frustrating. Yes! I thought Frostfur being friends with Bluestar and taking care of her while she was sick to be such a cute detail, especially since she was later confirmed to be her apprentice. And another moment that stood out is when Runningwind gladly took Thornpaw out to catch squirrels, but got annoyed when he had to train Cloudpaw because he really didn’t like him. Or Mousefur not being intimidated by Leopardfur at the Gathering, while Fireheart was. And my favorite of all is Cloudkit forming a friendship with the elders, despite the fact he’s spoiled and rude. I forgot all about this, but I found it adorable. Or whenever all of the older cats discuss past events that they all lived through, showing the bond they have even across Clans that the newer cats can’t quite relate to, but have no choice to listen to due to the wisdom being shared.
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