Pansexual
Medicine cat
Nettle
woof woof
Pronouns: She/her, They/them.
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Post by Nettle on Dec 20, 2023 3:45:49 GMT -5
Just realised something. Recently saw some fan art with Ivypool on the DF side and Dovewing on the Starclan side. What???? I've been really annoyed by this fact, because I've noticed how fans think Ivypool is a baddie bc she was jealous of her sister, and was manipulated by Hawkfrost. Like, she was just an itty-bitty-kitty???? Also, for the good of saving all the other clans, she had to live in a constant nightmare of going back to that wretched place over, and over, and over again so she could spy on the DF warriors AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. back me up ya'll.
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Post by dahliadove - #1 nightpelt fan on Dec 20, 2023 9:21:04 GMT -5
I don't see the issue with this. It's probably just an AU, or in light of the fact that Ivypool was on the side of the Dark Forest once, and Dovewing was chosen by StarClan.
Ivypool re-lived her wretched nightmare by choice. Not for saving all the Clans, because she literally did nothing for them. She was supposed to be spying but nowhere in the books does it show her actually reporting back and being helpful.
Being manipulated and being jealous doesn't really excuse her from all forms of criticism.
And I find it pretty rude that you see a piece of fanart you don't like and your first move is to go onto a website and talk bad about its concept and say you're "furious" about it.
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Post by vectoring34 on Dec 20, 2023 12:26:36 GMT -5
That sounds like a cool piece of fanart, you should link to it in the OP so I can give it a like and support the artist.
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#E0C6FF
Name Colour
Slightdapple
โจyour local book nerd โจ
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Post by Slightdapple on Dec 20, 2023 17:01:36 GMT -5
I think I know what fanart youโre talking about, and I donโt see the problem. Ivypool was โchosenโ in a way by the DF, while Dovewing was chosen by StarClan.
Also, I donโt know why you added โOotS spoilersโ when OotS has been out for over a decade.
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Post by แฆฯ๊ ธแฅด๊ซแ ป๊ช๊ชแง on Dec 20, 2023 17:26:03 GMT -5
no comment
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Post by lazzylake on Dec 20, 2023 17:32:54 GMT -5
Then again, there's a ton of pieces of fanart depicting this idea similarly and it's really nothing new. I believe it's mainly more for symbolism purposes if anything but I could be wrong.
Although Ivypool was manipulated at first, in my opinion I think she was mainly used as a pawn to get Intel for when the Great Battle will be. She did have some resentment for her sister at first, but she overcame it shortly afterwards once she realized the DF true intentions and knew they were a genuine threat.
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Post by kitters on Dec 20, 2023 17:36:43 GMT -5
I get what ur saying OP. Current day Ivypool wouldn't be caught dead supporting the DF and would probably claw anyone who suggested it.
Back in the day tho during early OOTS this style of symbolism was popular and a lot of people did it. Lots of MAPS like that too.
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Post by yuki on Dec 20, 2023 20:18:31 GMT -5
i really don't see the issue with this??
criticizing artwork is completely fine if it's actually something that can be shown as offensive. But when the artwork is more than likely to be drawn off of how they perceive the characters then it's highly unnecessary to be offended by it.
also most of ivypool's life was about her entanglement with the DF. instead of solely looking at it like its a horrible thing that shes being portrayed like that, Instead, it could be seen as a poignant depiction of the challenges shes faced and overcame.
still, i don't think you should criticize the artwork. since its not necessarily a bad thing.
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Post by ๐ฃ๐ฒ๐ท๐พ๐ฟ๐ฒ๐ฎ๐ต on Dec 20, 2023 20:50:07 GMT -5
I agree with everyone else. This really doesn't seem to be that big of a deal. Ivypool's most prominent role was in OotS, where her whole arc revolved around the Dark Forest in one way or another, and it started precisely because she was jealous of Dovewing. Either the piece of fanart you're referring to is meant to be a representation of that, it's part of an AU or some other project, or it's from before NW had come out/OotS was finished. Also, and I can't stress this enough, it's fanart. My point isโand I say this knowing full well that art has meaningโnot everything is going to be a representation on an artist's views. Sometimes people just create things for fun!
And as for Ivypool herself, I don't think I've ever seen anyone call her a "baddie" for being jealous of her sister and trusting Hawkfrost. Calling her foolish, yes. Annoying, sure. But people saying she's a bad cat for it is certainly something I've never heard of before. And I'm sure it exists, I'm more so saying it might not be as widespread as you seem to think it is. In fact, most of the criticism I've seen has more to do with her relationship with Dovewing in regards to Tigerheart rather for anything she did during her first three books, and even then, I don't think I've seen anyone call her a bad cat for it, either.
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Post by lazzylake on Dec 20, 2023 21:17:47 GMT -5
๐ฃ๐ฒ๐ท๐พ๐ฟ๐ฒ๐ฎ๐ต THANK YOU. Such true words Also, OP, I werenโt you advised about the titles in your threads? This is also regarding to your thread on Squirrelflight as well. Not saying you donโt have the right to be angry, itโs your opinion and you should express it, but perhaps donโt include the loaded language in your titles to rile up your point? Especially after you just got called out for doing the same thing not even a day ago. Just offering some constructive criticism that I think you would benefit from
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Post by Saint Ambrosef on Dec 20, 2023 21:52:38 GMT -5
I think everyone is being a tad bit harsh in tone toward OP. But I agree with the general sentiment; itโs like a non-literal representation of the characters, meant to highlight what was an admittedly interesting dichotomy between the sisters in the first half of OOTS. I donโt think anyone still thinks Ivypool is still on the DF side.
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Post by Katanaheart on Dec 20, 2023 21:53:49 GMT -5
Does anyone else also get confused by the title with thinking Ivypool is creating or part of some team. (Fantastic Four or Furious Five keep coming to mind.)
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Post by lazzylake on Dec 21, 2023 8:00:59 GMT -5
Does anyone else also get confused by the title with thinking Ivypool is creating or part of some team. (Fantastic Four or Furious Five keep coming to mind.) I instantly thought of Kung Fu Panda when reading the title so you're not alone! Ivypool gives me Tigress vibes when it comes to her fighting skills and honor.
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Post by ๐ฑ๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐ on Dec 21, 2023 10:35:29 GMT -5
This sort of symbolism often gets used in fanart about the two sisters, and not only when it's about them having actually been on opposite sides of the brewing battle between StarClan and the Dark Forest for a bit, so I don't see what the big deal is.
This is simply a choice of an (edgy but also meaningful) style to convey their struggles, both in terms of their individual paths but also their dynamic as sisters. It is not the only piece of art with this concept either.
It's also just a way to highlight the conflict between not only cat heaven and hell but between the two sisters as well since they argued a lot in OotS and indeed were on opposite sides for a short period of time while Ivypaw believed the Dark Forest was truly helping her until she realized the truth and became a spy for the Three instead.
If Ivypool had a villainous expression (evil grin or angry snarl) on her face, then it could very well simply be an Evil!Ivypool AU or the artist wanted to convey her putting on a front as a spy who was actually on the good side but had to pretend to be bad as to not blow her cover.
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Post by ๐๐ถโจBrambleheartโจ๐ถ๐ on Dec 21, 2023 19:47:30 GMT -5
I don't see any issue. It shows the dichotomy between both littermates and the roles they played in saving the Clans. Dovewing was granted powers from StarClan, and Ivypool spent a lot of time in the Dark Forest as a spy. Further more, even now, Dovewing and Ivypool are very different cats. Dovewing is sweet and gentle while Ivypool is angsty and rigid.
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