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Post by User33 on Sept 24, 2023 21:29:19 GMT -5
We know how Brokenstar drives off WindClan and manages to strike a deal with RiverClan before he gets kicked out of ShadowClan by the exiled elders and ThunderClan patrol (and rightfully so)
But even then Brokenstar was in a mostly good position. If memory serves correctly it was due to the exiling of elders, putting kits in battle, dangerous as hell training methods, and bigger emphasis on battling instead of hunting that was the biggest main contributing factors in the eventual fall of Brokenstar.
In my opinion Brokenstar would have a very good chance of succeeding and gaining full control of the forest if he DIDN'T exile elders, utilize life threatening training methods and actually give ShadowClan time to eat. He could've instead still make kits start their apprentice training much earlier but forbid them from going into battle. He could've still driven off WindClan without a patrol of kits and making a peace deal with RiverClan thus eliminating the need to steal kits from ThunderClan. Afterwards I assume a forest battle for balance would ensue between ThunderClan and a more stronger ShadowClan.
But of course this would mean a drastic change of personality to Brokenstar but this is just a hypothetical scenario. If you think otherwise or if this new Brokenstar is still destined to fail I'd love to read your replies/discussions.
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Post by Hollyfall on Sept 25, 2023 12:36:01 GMT -5
I like this writeup. Brokenstar was terrible leader in multiple ways, but his ideal ShadowClan would have collapsed sooner or later. Fear can be a useful tool when solidifying your power (we've seen this multiple times over the course of history), but Brokenstar failed to make any long-term plans and kept screwing over the Clan. More territory after conquering and driving out WindClan? Cool, but what point is there if you're not even allowing your Clan to properly feed themselves, and the next generation of warriors are dying because of how brutal your training methods are? The fact that he had to go steal kits from a rival Clan just to replace them is not a good idea.
Brokenstar also got rid of respected cats and those who would question or pose a threat to his power (Nightpelt, Yellowfang) and only listen to his appointed yes-men (Blackfoot, Clawface). That is, if he even listened to them at all. It honestly just seems to me Brokenstar cared only about the power that came with being leader and being able to exercise his lust for battle and conquering much easier. Had he been smart and worked on solidifying his hold on new territory and looked for the actual survival of his Clan, he might have done a little better. There's a reason the majority of the Clan was fine with him being outed from power.
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Post by vectoring34 on Sept 25, 2023 18:39:54 GMT -5
Would he really be able to drive out Windclan? The kit warriors aren't very strong, but cannon fodder is still useful sometimes. It's possible his efforts to drive out Windclan take longer in this case
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Post by User33 on Sept 25, 2023 20:01:40 GMT -5
Would he really be able to drive out Windclan? The kit warriors aren't very strong, but cannon fodder is still useful sometimes. It's possible his efforts to drive out Windclan take longer in this case I can imagine WindClan holding out for a lot longer unless Brokenstar employs a similar tactic he used in Blackfoot's reckoning where he manages to trick both Tallstar and Deadfoot with his two-bit goons to make WindClan leave without a fight
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