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Post by Hollyfall on Sept 23, 2023 18:58:27 GMT -5
Alright, who voted the yes option?! I did. He cares about his clan, idc what else he does. I havenโt read asc yet does he do any other dumb shit? He invades RiverClan and demands that they basically become a temporary vassal Clan under him. They refuse, so he beats them into submission and appoints puppet leaders to rule when he's not directly overseeing them. When the other leaders give him crap for overstepping his authority (you know, impeding the independence of a different Clan!) he insists he's doing the right thing while ignoring how miserable RiverClan is. Now it's gotten to the point where ShadowClan thinks it's detrimental to keep a presence in RiverClan. He might be correct that RiverClan needs help, but this was not the way to do it!
There's even direct comparisons to his grandfather and namesake who also once took control of RiverClan. Don't get me wrong, it makes for an interesting story, but certainly no less frustrating.
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Post by ๐ฉถSilverspark๐ฉถ on Sept 23, 2023 19:02:11 GMT -5
I did. He cares about his clan, idc what else he does. I havenโt read asc yet does he do any other dumb shit? He invades RiverClan and demands that they basically become a temporary vassal Clan under him. They refuse, so he beats them into submission and appoints puppet leaders to rule when he's not directly overseeing them. When the other leaders give him crap for overstepping his authority (you know, impeding the independence of a different Clan!) he insists he's doing the right thing while ignoring how miserable RiverClan is. Now it's gotten to the point where ShadowClan thinks it's detrimental to keep a presence in RiverClan. He might be correct that RiverClan needs help, but this was not the way to do it!
There's even direct comparisons to his grandfather and namesake who also once took control of RiverClan. Don't get me wrong, it makes for an interesting story, but certainly no less frustrating.ย So a lot more dumb shit. ๐ฅฒ
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2023 19:03:32 GMT -5
I did. He cares about his clan, idc what else he does. I havenโt read asc yet does he do any other dumb shit? He invades RiverClan and demands that they basically become a temporary vassal Clan under him. They refuse, so he beats them into submission and appoints puppet leaders to rule when he's not directly overseeing them. When the other leaders give him crap for overstepping his authority (you know, impeding the independence of a different Clan!) he insists he's doing the right thing while ignoring how miserable RiverClan is. Now it's gotten to the point where ShadowClan thinks it's detrimental to keep a presence in RiverClan. He might be correct that RiverClan needs help, but this was not the way to do it!
There's even direct comparisons to his grandfather and namesake who also once took control of RiverClan. Don't get me wrong, it makes for an interesting story, but certainly no less frustrating.ย Not to mention the other clans also offered their own help and Tigerstar put the offer down. If he really wanted to "help" like he claims then he would be willing to allow others to help find solutions as well.
Completely agree that it makes for an interesting story, but also agree that it's frustrating.
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Post by nowarriornameshere on Sept 23, 2023 21:01:55 GMT -5
I'm coming into this a little backwards. I hadn't read any of POT since book 3 and none of OOTS when I began reading VOS and as soon as he 360'd giving the land to Skyclan I was very confused why they suddenly made him evil. So I'm more disappointed in the Erin's to keep this 'all Tigerstar's male descendents are prone to evil" bs. Honestly, I wouldn't say he's evil. ****head certainly, and he's made some wrong decisions, and DEFINITELY favors his family over the clan when it should be the reverse for a leader. But wicked or malicious, no. He's trying to do the right thing most of the time. He's fitting "antagonist" status for sure, though.
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Post by ๐ฑ๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐ on Sept 24, 2023 2:31:44 GMT -5
Alright, who voted the yes option?! I did. He cares about his clan, idc what else he does. I havenโt read asc yet does he do any other dumb shit? Well then, I think it would be best if you did read ASC since he is way out of line regarding RiverClan there. But other than that, Tigerstar drives SkyClan out in the AVoS finale despite previously being in support of them while he was still Tigerheart and he drives out the Sisters who said they would leave anyways after Moonlight's kits were born and caused a battle while she was giving birth to those kits (he indirectly caused her death as well as that of Leafpool by even having that battle). As for him caring about his Clan, TBC and ASC make it rather obvious that he cares more about his family, since he tries to secretly let Shadowsight go to the tribe after he let Ashfur escape (although it can certainly be seen as understandable in the sense that he was worried what would happen to him for it) and multiple of his Clanmates make remarks about how they can't criticize/say anything against him or his family members due to his bias for them over his Clanmates. Of course, there's nothing wrong with caring about one's family/being protective of them though but still.
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Non-binary
Gladeshadow
The Warriors Nostalgia is strong in this one.
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Post by Gladeshadow on Sept 24, 2023 7:07:48 GMT -5
I'm coming into this a little backwards. I hadn't read any of POT since book 3 and none of OOTS when I began reading VOS and as soon as he 360'd giving the land to Skyclan I was very confused why they suddenly made him evil. So I'm more disappointed in the Erin's to keep this 'all Tigerstar's male descendents are prone to evil" bs. Honestly, I wouldn't say he's evil. ****head certainly, and he's made some wrong decisions, and DEFINITELY favors his family over the clan when it should be the reverse for a leader. But wicked or malicious, no. He's trying to do the right thing most of the time. He's fitting "antagonist" status for sure, though. It just seemed bizarre reading VOS and when he threatens Alderheart and then he's back to worrying about Shadowkit. It's like they're trying to say "see Tigerstar's kin right here" and the label seems to go on and off him. He was chosen by StarClan to lead and I seriously thought it would mean a great leader for ShadowClan but of course it's the 'Slytherin' clan so ofc they just make him an antagonist.
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Post by TawnystarIsReal on Sept 30, 2023 8:12:48 GMT -5
No๐ Him trying to pull the stunt of โhelpingโ RiverClan was an exact copy and paste of what his granddaddy did was CRAZY. Iโm happy Tawnypelt called him out at the gathering (if I remember correctly), but the reaction shouldโve sent everyone yelling and screaming at him. Everyone [should] know(s) about what the original Tigerstar did, so wouldnโt you be terrified of it happening again? ESPECIALLY from his descendant, aka his grandson, WHOS NAMED AFTER AND LOOKS JUST LIKE HIM??? Heโs awful and shouldโve died in Tigerheartโs Shadow
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Post by brightheartt on Sept 30, 2023 14:29:31 GMT -5
I'm coming into this a little backwards. I hadn't read any of POT since book 3 and none of OOTS when I began reading VOS and as soon as he 360'd giving the land to Skyclan I was very confused why they suddenly made him evil. So I'm more disappointed in the Erin's to keep this 'all Tigerstar's male descendents are prone to evil" bs. Honestly, you're not missing much. There just wasn't any build-up to his personality change at all; even in his own SE, where it would've been most relevant, he's nowhere near as aggressive as he usually is now. The only thing that stayed consistent was him being protective of his family. I wouldnโt call it a personality change, the seeds were always there. For example knew Dawnpelt was wrong to call Jayfeather a murderer but he publicly supported her claims anyway because sheโs his sister. I feel like knowingly accusing someone of murder when you know theyโre innocent is a pretty disgusting and morally bankrupt thing to do. But he was putting family first in his mind at the expense of another, which is completely on brand with present day.
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Post by ๐ฃ๐ฒ๐ท๐พ๐ฟ๐ฒ๐ฎ๐ต on Sept 30, 2023 14:47:31 GMT -5
Honestly, you're not missing much. There just wasn't any build-up to his personality change at all; even in his own SE, where it would've been most relevant, he's nowhere near as aggressive as he usually is now. The only thing that stayed consistent was him being protective of his family. I wouldnโt call it a personality change, the seeds were always there. For example knew Dawnpelt was wrong to call Jayfeather a murderer but he publicly supported her claims anyway because sheโs his sister. I feel like knowingly accusing someone of murder when you know theyโre innocent is a pretty disgusting and morally bankrupt thing to do. But he was putting family first in his mind at the expense of another, which is completely on brand with present day. Hence why I said that the only thing that stayed consistent was him being protective of his family. When I'm talking about his personality change, I'm referring to, well, his personality! He had his moments, sure, but even back then, he was still nowhere near as constantly outwardly aggressive like he is now. Not to the extent of practically holding a medicine cat hostage, driving SkyClan away, waging war against a pregnant queen, and invading RiverClan, at least. The closest thing that comes to mind is the Ivypaw incident, but he was just a warrior at the time. Comparing Tigerstar now to the deputy who'd prevented a fight over prey, well, it's like night and day.
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Post by brightheartt on Sept 30, 2023 16:25:11 GMT -5
I wouldnโt call it a personality change, the seeds were always there. For example knew Dawnpelt was wrong to call Jayfeather a murderer but he publicly supported her claims anyway because sheโs his sister. I feel like knowingly accusing someone of murder when you know theyโre innocent is a pretty disgusting and morally bankrupt thing to do. But he was putting family first in his mind at the expense of another, which is completely on brand with present day. Hence why I said that the only thing that stayed consistent was him being protective of his family. When I'm talking about his personality change, I'm referring to, well, his personality! He had his moments, sure, but even back then, he was still nowhere near as constantly outwardly aggressive like he is now. Not to the extent of practically holding a medicine cat hostage, driving SkyClan away, waging war against a pregnant queen, and invading RiverClan, at least. The closest thing that comes to mind is the Ivypaw incident, but he was just a warrior at the time. Comparing Tigerstar now to the deputy who'd prevented a fight over prey, well, it's like night and day. I guess he feels like heโs got to prove himself to be strong after what happened with his father. Being a bully is probably what he associates with strength.
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Aroace
maqle
mostly inactive
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Post by maqle on Oct 2, 2023 16:51:43 GMT -5
I feel like they really screwed up his character in ASC, and thats pretty much why I voted no. He was a pretty good leader in TBC, being pretty fair and caring about his clan over anything else, but now in ASC he's being kind of unreasonable and irresponsible taking over Riverclan against the other clan's wishes.
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