|
Post by Squirrelpaw on Sept 14, 2023 17:50:17 GMT -5
From your writing style, how would you fix Dovewing?
|
|
|
Post by Midnightcacoon loves Sunbeam on Sept 14, 2023 18:50:01 GMT -5
I think fixing up her romance arc in OotS would be good. For me it always symbolised her own desires verses what her clan expected of her. I think it parallels with her storyline being the prophecy cat well, and I think it wouldve been a really interesting story about freedom vs expectations.
She had good ideas but from I remember they weren’t always executed in the best way
|
|
|
Aroace
#ffa100
Name Colour
𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑
Villain Enjoyer
Taking a break from the forums because my cat died. Will probably be back mid to late October.
|
Post by 𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑 on Sept 15, 2023 16:06:28 GMT -5
No "romance" with Bumblestripe (wasn't much one to begin with) and a failed "romance" with Tigerheart where she realizes that he used and manipulated her under the guise of friendship when she was just a young apprentice and he was already a young warrior. This could all happen until SotM (when her and Ivypool become warriors).
For the rest of OotS, Dovewing's storyline can then finally focus entirely on the actually interesting parts of her character considering that she is a prophecy cat with cool powers who feels pressured and overwhelmed by the expectations StarClan and her fellow prophecy cats have of her but who still wants to do what is right and also get along with her sister. Then in AVoS, she gets with Hawkwing (crackship energy but I like it anyways) and Tigerheart dies because this is my story now and I say so.
|
|
|
Post by Katanaheart on Sept 15, 2023 17:05:15 GMT -5
Just shove or get rid of both of her romances by the end of OOTS. From there, she’d be developed better in background scenes. I’d also prefer her to be Nightheart’s mentor instead of Lilyheart if Dovewing remained in ThunderClan. (Although in this timeline of Dovewing staying, I imagine a lot of the codes that occurred would be nonexistent as well. So, a lot of changes with ASC’s plot overall.)
|
|
|
Post by droppaw 🍂 on Sept 16, 2023 16:31:00 GMT -5
get rid Of tigerheart and Give her more Friends. I feel Like she is Either distant to or Has a bad Relationship with everyone Around her and It's just sad I'd also have Loved to see her Rebel more against Jay and Lion, like by telling Ivypool about the Prophecy earlier, and also Have Them realize/acknowledge how Badly their treating This Actual Child (I love Jay But the Way he acted During their trip to the Tribe in SotM was God Awful)
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2023 16:35:53 GMT -5
Give her friends, no romance, maybe make someone else her mentor, give her an apprentice
Just see how being forced in a prophecy can hurt a child, yeah
|
|
|
Post by nowarriornameshere on Sept 16, 2023 20:46:37 GMT -5
There's a lot of work to do.
>constant whining On one hand, I get it. Kid didn't want to be in a prophecy. Jayfeather LEAPT at his destiny, Hollyleaf accepted it and spent more time questioning the ethics and morality behind it, and Lionblaze just kind of trailed along while neither liking nor disliking it, at least until his girlfriend had a hissy fit over it and he was suddenly left maidenless. It's a good writing opportunity to have somebody who actually goes "no, to hell with this, I just want to live my life the same way everyone else does." On the other hand, that doesn't make her complaining any less unpleasant to read. But I'm not sure it would be good to change it.
>romance and family life A lot to unpack here. Book 1, I don't take issue with her and Tiger. She's kind of stressed, he's a goofball. They connect. It's cute. Cue a bunch of forbidden romance shenanigans. As usual, the Erins have one song and dance. Sneaking around to hang out while somebody knows and disapproves. Zzz. No new ground is being broken here. Then the epic betrayal. I really don't see what's so unforgivable. Littlecloud was sick and ThunderClan had herbs. All Tigerheart did was share the info that ThunderClan had herbs. I strongly doubt he had the authority to call for Ivypaw to be imprisoned, but more importantly, guy has an obligation to people he cares about to try to help them not die. But at the same time, relationships are just as grounded on how the individuals in them feel about each other as "the actual truth behind them" is. So if Dovepaw felt she couldn't trust him anymore, that's entirely her decision and nobody can say otherwise. Similarly, the fact that she later on decided that she is okay with trusting him again is also not something I'm inclined to argue with. Next. Bumblestripe arc sucked. Dovewing didn't exactly need to go diving into another romance either, and the narrative suffered for it, but I get it. She had a nasty breakup and she still wants semblance of a normal life. Relationships are alluring. She still wasn't over Tigerheart though, and it damn showed. Cue fast forward, and we have ThunderClan and the remnants of ShadowClan's leadership cooped up together, with our two exes in close proximity of each other. "Plap plap plap," as the cool kids say. Now we got a couple of half-Clan muffins baking in the oven. Then Dovewing nosedives into what is by far the worst decision she's ever made, and possibly a contender for top five worst decisions made in Warriors ever. It certainly drastically lowered my opinion of her, when before I considered her "annoying to read but at least understandable and sympathetic".
**This is the biggest change I'd make to Dovewing, and it's also the simplest one. Have her actual talk things over a bit more and use her head. Don't just run off into the great unknown alone because you're pregnant and had a bad dream.**
That SE also had the second-most cringeworthy line in the entire series. I distinctly remember sitting in a Starbucks in Bellevue one afternoon, sipping my Pumpkin Spice Latte when I read "You gave up everything for me, right?" The only time I ever cringed harder at any line in Warriors was... THAT Violet Dawn line. You know the one. Really, Dovewing was at her worst by far in that SE. Just wiping out the part where she runs away would do wonders for her.
TBC-era Dovewing is by far the least annoying she's ever been to me, so props to her there.
She and Ivypool are pretty tight to start with and then even if they fight over a lot, they do clearly love and care for each other. They feel like family. Minus Dovewing towards Ivypool in the SE, where she vanished on her and left her worried sick.
Tl;Dr: wipe her characterization in Arc 6 off the books and I'm willing to consider her tolerable.
|
|
|
Post by {Azure} on Sept 16, 2023 21:04:55 GMT -5
THAT Violet Dawn line. You know the one. i don't actually, so please do tell *grabs popcorn*
|
|
|
Post by nowarriornameshere on Sept 16, 2023 21:13:17 GMT -5
THAT Violet Dawn line. You know the one. i don't actually, so please do tell *grabs popcorn* Trigger warning "I won't let anything happen to you! You're going to be father to my kits one day. I need you." If I knew how to spoiler tag, I would.
|
|
|
Post by {Azure} on Sept 16, 2023 21:19:46 GMT -5
it's the last thing on the toolbar, the one that looks like it's shushing you, now hide that thing from the world and only let the bravest of all warriors click that spoiler tag nowarriornameshere
|
|
|
Post by Katanaheart on Sept 16, 2023 21:25:58 GMT -5
i don't actually, so please do tell *grabs popcorn* Trigger warning "I won't let anything happen to you! You're going to be father to my kits one day. I need you." If I knew how to spoiler tag, I would. It doesn’t seem cringe-worthy to me? Sure, Maybe a little soappopra/old western tv show a bit but it’s fine? (Then again I’m also very desensitized due to my dad’s love of westerns and old shows…)
|
|
|
Post by کیوان on Sept 16, 2023 22:05:05 GMT -5
If you think about it, DoTC reads as a huge soap opera. Maybe the antiquated writing is what I liked about it...
|
|
|
Post by nowarriornameshere on Sept 16, 2023 22:10:02 GMT -5
it's the last thing on the toolbar, the one that looks like it's shushing you, now hide that thing from the world and only let the bravest of all warriors click that spoiler tag nowarriornameshereI didn't see anything like that on my browser and so realized that it's not available on mobile. So I switched to desktop mode. Thankee.
|
|
#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
|
Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Sept 16, 2023 22:28:48 GMT -5
Emphasize Dovewing feeling the pressure of living in Hollyleaf's shadow and what it means to be a Clan cat. Maybe her relationship with Tigerheart is still a thing, but mostly as an escape. In the end, either she realizes ThunderClan isn't for her and leaves for ShadowClan after the Dark Forest's defeat, becomes a diplomat of sorts and works on slowly dismantling the more-intense-than-usual Clan rivalries that had been building up all arc, or leaves the Clans completely to become a kittypet. And considering OotS was originally supposed to be the final arc, I think it would've been fitting.
|
|
#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
|
Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Sept 16, 2023 22:30:02 GMT -5
it's the last thing on the toolbar, the one that looks like it's shushing you, now hide that thing from the world and only let the bravest of all warriors click that spoiler tag nowarriornameshereI didn't see anything like that on my browser and so realized that it's not available on mobile. So I switched to desktop mode. Thankee. There's also the HTML: [ spoiler ] text [/ spoiler ], without the spaces, of course.
|
|
|
Post by dahliadove - #1 nightpelt fan on Sept 16, 2023 22:35:13 GMT -5
I don't really think she needs "fixing" because flaws in a character is what gets people talking about them, but I think I'd leave out her whole romance with Bumblestripe. Maybe even Tigertwo as well. Her romance with Bumblestripe just made tons of the fandom hate her because apparently when a guy likes you, you owe it to him to be his partner even when you don't like him back. This was a popular argument especially in early fandoms when misogyny was weirdly appreciated. If she would still have her romance with Tigertwo, I think I'd make it so she was a warrior and not an apprentice. While their age gap isn't that big, she was still an apprentice and he was still a warrior. I found it kind of creepy, especially considering the recent book has set the in-text standard that apprentice-warrior relationships are wrong And then I'd make it so she dealt with the moving-to-shadowclan thing a little less messily. I wouldn't take out her messy relationship with Ivypool. They have a fun dynamic. That's if I wanted a perfect character. But she's not perfect, and the things she does wrong or the things in her character that seem wrong or flawed are what makes her so interesting. She's a fun character, sure, but like... Imagine any character that's had controversy in the fandom. Now imagine that character without the source of that controversy. Literally nobody would talk about them.
|
|
Aroace
maqle
mostly inactive
|
Post by maqle on Oct 2, 2023 17:17:47 GMT -5
Fix that god awful romance arc, and maybe change her personality a bit more? That last one is more of a pet peeve of mine though lol
|
|
|
Post by Dancing_Totodile on Oct 4, 2023 17:43:16 GMT -5
Her and Jayfeather would of had a better relationship considering the fact the int ehri first life the were littermats!
|
|
Pansexual
Medicine cat
Nettle
woof woof
Pronouns: She/her, They/them.
|
Post by Nettle on Oct 5, 2023 1:33:50 GMT -5
She should have more confidence in herself and her capabilities. She seems to rely on her mate a lot more than any she-cat should. She should also get rid or her awful romance history. She needs to fix herself.
|
|
Asexual
#ca55a0
Name Colour
Rανєη'ѕ ƑƖιgнт
Rebel Queen
Art by Nicoletta Baldari
|
Post by Rανєη'ѕ ƑƖιgнт on Oct 6, 2023 18:40:57 GMT -5
Lean in more to the sensory overload she has with her powers sometimes. She should be having trouble in battle if she can’t concentrate. Dovewing gives autism representation but it should be more explicit.
Get rid of the Bumblestripe romance since it didn’t go anywhere. Develop the TigerDove romance so that they don’t start getting deep until after Dovewing is a warrior.
|
|
|
Post by dahliadove - #1 nightpelt fan on Oct 6, 2023 21:55:11 GMT -5
She should have more confidence in herself and her capabilities. She seems to rely on her mate a lot more than any she-cat should. She should also get rid or her awful romance history. She needs to fix herself. This is so confusing because arguably she hasn't been very reliant on Tigertwo. If leaving without him because it doesn't matter if he comes along with her is "relying on her mate a lot" then I don't know what to tell you. I'm super confused about everyone saying "completely erase her romantic history". Is she just not allowed to have exes?? I'm so confused. Sure, it was messy, but is that not a good thing? That she had a messy love life?? Why is that at all a bad thing? Why is she expected to have a completely normal love life when her life was not at all normal? "She needs to fix herself" - literally how? She's fine just the way she is in the current arc. She's content, she's mending her relationship with her sister too. Saying that she needs to fix herself because she isn't confident and had a messy history with romance when she dated this guy and some other guy liked her a full, like, 8 in-text years ago, is really strange to me. Why don't people say this about other cats who have had messy love lives? Like I feel that nobody ever talks about Bramblestar and Jessy, but everyone talks about Squirrelflight and Ashfur. And Lionblaze's crush on Heathertail. Also the shocking amount of deadbeat dads in the series. Blizzardwing too, who cheated on Featherstorm with Hollyflower. And Blazefire, who rejected Sunbeam then immediately moved on to her best friend, and for some reason only Lightleap gets blame for this situation when the blame should go to both of them. How about Toadskip with Nettlespot and Poolcloud, and seemingly another third unnamed she-cat? How about Hal having multiple mates? Or Tigerone? Or Smoky with two exes and a mate? My point is that there's nothing wrong with any of these cats having messy love lives, so I find it weird to see that people are so insistent on completely erasing Dovewing's former love experience as if it's an issue that she's had an ex before, as if it's an issue that she didn't like Bumblestripe back. (Yes, I see the irony because I thought that erasing BumbleDove would be a good idea but I also acknowledged how dumb that would be considering there's little reason to do so)
|
|