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Post by Rainfire on Aug 19, 2023 16:50:52 GMT -5
What was your opinion on the Daisy/Cloudtail/Brightheart situation that happened back in TNP?
I rarely see it brought up anymore, but I remember Daisy would get plenty of flak for it back in the day, for "trying to steal Cloudtail from Brightheart"
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#a3c5e6
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𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Aug 19, 2023 16:55:19 GMT -5
I hated it, especially when the only reason it existed in the first place was to give Leafpool a other reason to leave. It also brought Brightheart down for me tbh, considering this whole thing could've been solved if she had just talked to Cloudtail or even Daisy about how she'd felt in the first place and we never really got any indication that she had.
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Asexual
#07B04C
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Ṣanɗypaw™
The Shiny User
🎵Guess that's just the way it goes, easy come, easy go🎵
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Post by Ṣanɗypaw™ on Aug 19, 2023 17:15:58 GMT -5
Dislike. The less love drama there is, the better imo. Plus it felt really OOC for Brightheart.
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Post by cable on Aug 19, 2023 19:10:51 GMT -5
I hated it, especially when the only reason it existed in the first place was to give Leafpool a other reason to leave. It also brought Brightheart down for me tbh, considering this whole thing could've been solved if she had just talked to Cloudtail or even Daisy about how she'd felt in the first place and we never really got any indication that she had. eh, i can kinda forgive brightheart. even if its been a while since tpb, the kind of trauma she went through there can haunt somebody for life, and i can buy her always being privately insecure about whether or not cloudtail truly loves her, or wondering if hes secretly repulsed by her appearance. the kind of thing she’d have anxiety about late at night, yknow? even with cloudtail validating her, it can be hard to shake those kinds of thoughts, and it was possibly feeding into her concerns about if cloudtail might leave her for daisy. iirc its implied in the final book of tnp that she asked daisy about her and cloudtail, and daisy affirmed that cloudtail was brighthearts mate, and that settled the issue, so she did eventually take her feelings to daisy. like, its more character analysis/personal interpretation, but i can imagine a reasoning for her behavior |
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Aug 19, 2023 19:48:01 GMT -5
I hated it, especially when the only reason it existed in the first place was to give Leafpool a other reason to leave. It also brought Brightheart down for me tbh, considering this whole thing could've been solved if she had just talked to Cloudtail or even Daisy about how she'd felt in the first place and we never really got any indication that she had. eh, i can kinda forgive brightheart. even if its been a while since tpb, the kind of trauma she went through there can haunt somebody for life, and i can buy her always being privately insecure about whether or not cloudtail truly loves her, or wondering if hes secretly repulsed by her appearance. the kind of thing she’d have anxiety about late at night, yknow? even with cloudtail validating her, it can be hard to shake those kinds of thoughts, and it was possibly feeding into her concerns about if cloudtail might leave her for daisy. like, its more character analysis/personal interpretation, but i can imagine a reasoning for her behavior Oh, no, I definitely understand that! Hell, ATiT—though it's earlier in the timeline—even showed she still had nightmares from the incident. I'm just annoyed it took Leafpool—or anyone else outside from these three, for that matter—getting involved for Cloudtail and Brightheart to finally patch things up, when all that was needed was for all three of them to sit and talk. It's realistic, certainly, yet still no less annoying. But noooo, Leafpool had to have a reason to leave besides having fallen in love with Crowfeather. Why at the expense of Cloud x Bright, though? It just felt really unnecessary, especially when Leafpool still could've gotten pregnant and become ThunderClan's sole medicine cat without leaving. Or if Cinderpelt did have to have a "replacement" for her, then I feel like a lot more could've been done with Cody, at least for a little longer. Or maybe Daisy could've felt compelled to learn basic medicine to keep herself and her kits safe before the badgers attack instead of having her be involved in a (unrequited) love triangle. |
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Post by stupidflower on Aug 19, 2023 20:52:56 GMT -5
It felt like a waste of time. I only ended up feeling bad for Daisy having super bad luck with love interests.
It is interesting, though, how one could interpret Daisy as having been previously in a polyamorous relationship with Smoky and Floss (them both being pregnant by him, everyone on seemingly good terms when she leaves, even how she cares for Floss later. This likely wasn’t intentional but idc).
Maybe she had similar hopes for Cloudtail, before realizing that he’d only ever love Brightheart and saw her only as a friend. It’s a stretch, but it’s an interesting concept. Might make a good story.
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Post by nowarriornameshere on Aug 20, 2023 2:20:16 GMT -5
It felt incredibly shittily timed for the sake of creating a conflict that drove Brightheart to the medicine cat's den and made Leafpool feel like ThunderClan could afford to lose her. "Dumbass Loveblind Anime Protagonist Cloudtail" also felt really stupid, though I can overlook it because Firestar made it clear in TPB that it's borderline genetic.
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Aroace
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𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑
Villain Enjoyer
Arcane Season 2 has got me in a chokehold once again (do not send help)
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Post by 𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑 on Aug 20, 2023 10:25:05 GMT -5
It felt like cheap/forced drama meant to create some more conflict in the second half of TNP since the first half had a more overarching plot and also seemed a bit more planned out (the Sundrown place quest, destruction of the forest territories, Great Journey, Clans working together) while the second half consisted of plenty of side plots or just multiple bigger but moreso seperate ones (Mudclaw rebellion, Brambleclaw training with Tigerstar and Hawkfrost, BrambleSquirrelAsh love triangle drama, LeafCrow drama, BrightCloudDaisy drama, Daisy joining the Clans with her kits, the badger attack and so on).
I do love Brightheart, Cloudtail and Daisy all as characters (don't ship them together though) but this even felt a tad OoC (if that makes sense) on Cloudtail's part. I'll admit that the way it was written initially made me dislike Daisy when reading about this situation as a tween for the first time. I'm probably not the only one who felt that way and it was probably written like that on purpose but still feel bad for Daisy in retrospect. She deserved better love interests (both Smoky and Spiderleg suck) and a better love story in general.
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Post by nowarriornameshere on Aug 20, 2023 17:34:22 GMT -5
Oh, I suppose I will add that I can overlook Cloudtail being oblivious because I like the interpretation that he is so utterly besotted with and faithful to Brightheart that he literally cannot comprehend the idea that she might think he'd be into somebody else, or pick up on cues that another she-cat might be giving him. I'm sappy like that.
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Post by Saint Ambrosef on Aug 20, 2023 21:46:01 GMT -5
Oh, I suppose I will add that I can overlook Cloudtail being oblivious because I like the interpretation that he is so utterly besotted with and faithful to Brightheart that he literally cannot comprehend the idea that she might think he'd be into somebody else, or pick up on cues that another she-cat might be giving him. I'm sappy like that. Cloudtail inherited Firestar’s “oblivious ginger tom” gene despite not being ginger. Him not even realizing Daisy was into him and that Brightheart was insecure about it would be 100% in character. |
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Aug 21, 2023 4:09:18 GMT -5
Personally, I don't really think it was that big of a deal. The concept of Daisy falling for Cloudtail, who was nothing but nice to her, and was shown to be a capable cat isn't farfetched. Especially when Daisy was having issues with her previous partner, and she feared for her kits, and Cloudtail showed up in her life. I'm not really surprised she had feelings for him at some point.
Likewise, I'm not surprised that Brightheart showed some semblance of feeling insecure over her past trauma, and feeling upset at the idea of Cloudtail possibly choosing Daisy. I think between Daisy and Brighterheart, they both had valid feelings in general.
Characters can have fleeting feelings, characters can have insecurities, characters can even be oblivious, like Cloudtail in this situation (like Uncle like nephew I guess?) only really cared about Daisy's kits than moreso Daisy herself. What's important is how the characters reflect on their feelings and how they behave moving forward.
Daisy, despite her feelings for Cloudtail, never pursued him romantically.
Brightheart, despite her insecurities, never took her frustrations out on Daisy.
Cloudtail, despite being oblivious, does eventually do better by the end.
It's a growing experience for all their characters, and also shows that these characters, nor their relationships, aren't perfect. Because I'll be honest with you, I didn't personally care for BrightCloud until this point, because they felt like a very paper cut out pairing, but that's just my opinion on the matter. It was nice to see that they weren't always 100% picture perfect with one another after getting together, and even healthy relationships have road bumps.
Could the whole situation have been handled better? Absolutely, written better in general. But do I think it was a waste of time when it came out? Not really, still don't think it was. The problem is that it later does become an overused trope though, throughout the series.
I think the only thing I'm mostly happy about is that Brightheart and Daisy became good friends after. But I still long for a day that Daisy gets a mate that likes her for her and not for other reasons. One that actually would have treated her well.
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Aroace
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Post by 🎄ᦓρ꠸ᥴꫀᠻꪖꪀᧁ🎅 on Aug 21, 2023 22:28:14 GMT -5
I never liked it, but it does make sense if you look into it. Daisy fell for Cloudtail, Cloudtail’s oblivious, and Brightheart’s insecure. I don’t think anyone is out of character here. Daisy is kind and would obviously had a crush on Cloudtail, but she didn’t pursue in it. She knew Cloudtail had a mate, and knowing Daisy, she probably felt guilty that she had fallen for an already taken tom. Like others have said, Cloudtail is just like his uncle/mentor/father figure being oblivious in love life. Brightheart, meanwhile, is still traumatized and insecure. By late TNP, she’s still recovering from the severe PTSD and trauma the dogs had driven her through. She’s insecure that Cloudtail will leave her because of her scars, and it doesn’t help that Daisy had gotten scared of her when first arriving at ThunderClan.
I just wish the authors had looked into it this way, because all it was in their minds was another reason why Leafpool wasn’t “wanted”. I love Leafpool, but her just saying that Brightheart could be shoved in the medicine multiple times is selfish of her. But Leafpool is very selfish during late TNP, and that’s not the point anyways. What I’m trying to say is that the situation made sense, but was oddly unnecessary. Like I said, Leafpool is selfish during this time. It’s a big flaw of her’s and that’s why this situation didn’t need to happen. Leafpool’s flaws could have been showcased during this time, instead of creating a unneeded unexplained side plot.
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