Should Juniperclaw have been allowed to enter Starclan?

Frostdawn

Go on, tell us what you think

He did what he thought was best and reconized his mistakes afterward, and to prove that he did, he saved Violetshine's life and her kits. So yes, I think he should be able to.

Every time I try to answer this question I end up getting so frustrated and annoyed by the inconsistent and unclear rules and processes surrounding StarClan and the Dark Forest. He should at least have gotten a trial, if that's how they actually do things in StarClan (or was that nothing more than a plot convenience invented to let Leafpool in?).

Questions that need to be answered for me to answer the question posed by OP. Personally I think he proved that he should get to go to StarClan in TBC, but canonically I have no idea.

1) Who belongs in the DF? Would a cat who acted within the warrior code their whole life but still acted maliciously (lawful evil) go to the Dark Forest? A cat who acted outside the code for noble intentions? A cat who lived their whole life according to the code and with good intentions, except they never thanked StarClan for their prey? A cat who did evil but repents and changes their behavior (i.e. Juniperclaw)?

2) How is it decided who ends up in the DF? Supposedly there is a trial, but we only started hearing about that in Squirrelflight's Hope. It's a complete retcon. We also know that the DF attracts cats with dark thoughts and simmering resentments, but then wouldn't Ashfur have ended up there in the first place? Why does StarClan have absolutely no system set in place for when mistakes are inevitably made, and an evil cat gets into StarClan and a good cat ends up in the Dark Forest?

3) What is the POINT of the Dark Forest? It certainly doesn't seem to have any productive purpose, as it puts all the evil cats in one place (where they can conspire) and actively fosters a mental state that promotes evil thoughts and actions. It doesn't seem to act as a rehabilitation center, in which the evildoers atone for their sins and then get a chance to redeem themselves/enter StarClan. If StarClan were smart, they would let all but the most evil cats into StarClan, so that they can prevent the shady cats from turning more evil and keep an eye on them. If the Dark Forest's purpose is to punish evildoers, It doesn't even seem to be THAT bad of a punishment: we can see that cats like Maggottail have a certain loyalty to it because even though it's kinda crappy, it's still a place they can call home and feel comfortable in. It's not like they're burning for eternity or anything like that; they were willing to go to battle to defend their home.

A last minute sacrifice isn't really enough for me, so no. Even Juniperclaw himself says that if atoning was all a cat needed to do to get to StarClan, the Dark Forest would be empty. It'd be different if he'd lived longer or had at least told Violetshine to tell Leafstar he was sorry before he was swept away, but for all the flaws StarClan has, I really don't blame them for sending Juniperclaw to the Dark Forest after he died. Good on him for saving Shadowkit, but that's it. There's a reason why I'm harder on him than, say, Clear Sky or Needletail, as they'd actually reflected on their actions while they were alive (Clear Sky getting a whole book dedicated to his redemption and Needletail going against Darktail in small ways before sacrificing her life for Violetpaw). Juniperclaw on the other hand simply tried to justify his actions and then ran away almost immediately after he was caught.

After helping the Clans though? Yes. Or at the very least, guarding the border could've been the start of some sort of trial rather than just having him hold the position for the rest of eternity.

I still think Juniperclaw does currently deserve the type of limbo his position is akin to, instead of StarClan or the Dark Forest. He certainly has changed but not yet had the opportunity to properly apologize to the Clan and cats that could have died if his poisonous plot had not been disovered and stopped before things would have turned truly tragic for SkyClan (or at least to Sparrowpelt who almost died).

He probably would be in StarClan if his last words to Violetshine had been "Tell SkyClan I'm sorry." instead of just "Tell Tigerstar I'm sorry." Or if he just said "Tell Leafstar I'm sorry." Because she was the one who took him and ShadowClan in after Rowanclaw stepped down and he dishonored that by endangering her and her Clan to somehow get them to leave the lake due to the territory conflict between their two Clans.

Juniperclaw's remorseful behaviour and words during ALitM did make me like him there as a character though. Because he himself has indeed finally realized the severity of his actions. I think that after spending some time as the border guardian (which kinda could be seen as some form of atonement in a way) he might be up for a trial to get into StarClan. Also liked this quote from him: "I don’t deserve a place in StarClan. I never will. But I owe them, and the living Clans, something."

This part really bothered me the most tbh. I actually wish we'd at least gotten a scene between him and another SkyClan cat who wasn't Violetshine in ALiTM (even then, he barely spoke to her), maybe even Sparrowpelt himself if not Leafstar. Like I said, he's a much better character in death, but at least in life, Juniperclaw seemed like the type of cat who attempted to avoid responsibility as much as possible and take the easy way out (even prior to the poisoning, he followed Darktail, nearly abandoned his Clan to go join SkyClan with Scorchfur, disrespected Leafstar, and tried to manipulate Violetshine into keeping Sleekwhisker and Yarrowleaf a secret).

I've always believed there should be a Purgatory-like place in the afterlife, but sacrificing your life at the last minute shouldn't get you an immediate ticket into Eternal Paradise, either. Him dying to save Violetshine and Shadowkit says more about his standards than anything, which were already pretty low to begin with. It wasn't like he had a specific target in mind either, this was just random!

Before TBC? No. After? Yes.

I think that if someone had been killed from the deathberries, this wouldn’t be a question. He could have wiped out half the Clan; if was his GOAL for at least one cat to die. He could have killed kits and apprentices and didn’t care. He doubled down on his decision and didn’t seem to feel much remorse until AFTER he was dead. He only got lucky that nobody died.

Sure, he died saving Violetshine and Shadowkit. But Shadowkit was from his own Clan, and Violetshine was helping him. Sure, he cared about Violetshine’s unborn kits…maybe? He didn’t seem to care when he POISONED her Clan. The good he did doesn’t outweigh the fact that he could have killed all of SkyClan. It shouldn’t matter that he didn’t actually do it, because he TRIED, and even if he didn’t want to kill the WHOLE Clan, his recklessness very well could have. He could have killed more than Hawkfrost ever did, but we don’t question his place in the Dark Forest. Perhaps if he had lived longer he could have redeemed himself before death, but he didn’t. Sure, his death was a sacrifice, but you know who else died to save another? Tom from DOTC. And his sacrifice doesn’t excuse how horrible he is. It doesn’t make him better and it doesn’t fix the harm he caused. Does Juniperclaw become better than Tom ever was after death? Yes. But, by the actual time of his death, we can’t really know if he has actually changed.

So no, I don’t think he deserved StarClan right after death. However, TBC changes that. He is willing to die forever to save the Clans, including SkyClan. He shows obvious remorse for what he did in life, and still doesn’t believe he is worthy of redemption. But he tries anyway, to save his brother, his Clanmates, and even SkyClan. He HAS changed by the end.

This is why I think a system where cats are sent to the Dark Forest temporarily, almost as a prison sentence, would be interesting and perhaps beneficial. I think Juniperclaw didn’t really understand the weight of his actions until they condemned him to cat hell. He reflected and redeemed himself eventually, and eventually became worthy of StarClan.

If Clear Sky is in StarClan, I believe post-TBC Juniperclaw can be too. He learned, atoned, and became a better cat. I think he deserves a chance now, or at least doesn’t belong in the same place as the likes of Mapleshade or Thistleclaw.

I'm sorry, but speaking as a minority myself, this actually kinda leaves a bad taste in my mouth, ngl. I mean, Juniperclaw was the son of the Clan deputy, grandson of the old Clan leader, and nephew of the current one. Look, I'm not saying you have to like Needletail, but comparing him to an unprivileged minority might not be the best way to go, at least imo, especially when everything that happened to him was his own fault, so I'm not sure if saying he was judged harshly his entire life would be accurate, either.

I think that when Juniperclaw first died, he did not deserve any chance to get into StarClan. However, after ALitM he should have had a trial while doing the boarder guarding thing, and then gone into StarClan.