Aroace
#ffa100
Name Colour
𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑
Villain Enjoyer
Taking a break from the forums because my cat died. Will probably be back mid to late October.
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Post by 𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑 on Jun 13, 2023 12:18:46 GMT -5
This question got asked yesterday on the official instagram hub account for Warrior Cats.
My head is currently empty or I'm maybe just a bit overwhelmed since there's quite a few candidates to choose from, after all.
And with that said, people will naturally have different opinions on this matter and that's completely fine. So please be respectful if you disagree with an opinion except when someone says Thistleclaw because then it's on sight /hj.
In regards to the definition of characters being misunderstood in this case, the instagram posts asks: Who does nobody really 'get' like you do?
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Post by Saint Ambrosef on Jun 13, 2023 12:24:14 GMT -5
I’m gonna be controversial and put forth Snowfur and Spottedleaf.
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Post by Hollyfall on Jun 13, 2023 12:58:59 GMT -5
What's defining "misunderstood" here? Like within the fandom, or in canon? For both I'd put in Mapleshade tbh
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Aroace
#ffa100
Name Colour
𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑
Villain Enjoyer
Taking a break from the forums because my cat died. Will probably be back mid to late October.
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Post by 𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑 on Jun 13, 2023 13:07:15 GMT -5
What's defining "misunderstood" here? Like within the fandom, or in canon? For both I'd put in Mapleshade tbh According to the instagram post, it's along the lines of: Who does nobody really 'get' like you do?
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Heterosexual
#64c1a0
Name Colour
𝙵𝚎𝚛𝚛𝚎𝚝𝚜𝚝𝚎𝚙
𝙼𝚘𝚘𝚛 𝚁𝚞𝚗𝚗𝚒𝚗𝚐 𝚒𝚜 𝚜𝚞𝚙𝚎𝚛𝚒𝚘𝚛.
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Post by 𝙵𝚎𝚛𝚛𝚎𝚝𝚜𝚝𝚎𝚙 on Jun 13, 2023 13:08:06 GMT -5
Obviously Brokenstar. People don’t understand him like I do. <3
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Post by cable on Jun 13, 2023 13:53:18 GMT -5
hollyleaf is not a girlboss. she is a girlloser. she is spiraling out of control. she clings to law as a thin facsimile of supreriority because if she doesnt have that what does she have. and what happens when her very existence burns that support to ash. what happens when you embrace destiny only to be rejected by it. when you are no more special than anybody else, and cant see that you still have it all, because youre a prodigy beloved by your friends and family. you can kill as much as you want, but youll never kill that fear. her killing ashfur wasnt a cool moment or an act of protection. it was a tantrum.
shes such a pathetic wet thing i love her.
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Post by Ivyclaw🪻 on Jun 13, 2023 15:48:56 GMT -5
hollyleaf is not a girlboss. she is a girlloser. she is spiraling out of control. she clings to law as a thin facsimile of supreriority because if she doesnt have that what does she have. and what happens when her very existence burns that support to ash. what happens when you embrace destiny only to be rejected by it. when you are no more special thananybody else, and cant see that you still have it all, because youre a prodigy beloved by your friends and family. you can kill as much as you want, but youll never kill that fear. her killing ashfur wasnt a cool moment or an act of protection. it was a tantrum. shes such a pathetic wet thing i love her. she's also disrespectful, rude, and controlling to other cats. she pissed off her brother a lot, because she constantly meddled into his business with heathertail. yeah, he shouldn't be breaking the code, but mind your own business? when millie wanted to keep her name, I'm pretty sure she was really rude about it. she's also racist too, complaining about mixed blood in the Clan. Hollyleaf didn't kill Ashfur to protect her brothers, and she certainly didn't do it our if self defense. she killed him in cold blood, knowing exactly what she was doing at the time. It's told in Sunrise through Jayfeather's thoughts, proven she knows exactly what she's doing is cold murder. she really doesn't deserve to be deputy, she was never good at handling her emotions, and she was still a control freak when she came back, calling out Ivypool and thinking she's with Redwillow. hollyleaf was never mature, and she doesn't deserve to be leader or deputy. hollyleaf is a horrible role model in the series, but she's probably one of the most interesting characters. it's unfortunate that she never really grows after returning, she becomes a bland background character instead.
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Post by Dark on Jun 13, 2023 17:06:42 GMT -5
This may or may not be controversial, but Nightcloud. Just... Nightcloud 100%. I'm not totally taking the blame off of her for Breezepelt's and her own actions, I'm just saying it's not fair to only notice her as the "jealous girl who manipulated her son and didn't trust her mate." Crowfeather was the one to ask her to be his mate, not the other way around, so, if I was Nightcloud, I would expect more from someone who asked me out.
Crowfeather basically used Nightcloud to seem loyal to his clan, and that's just a **** move, my guy. She doesn't deserve that, nobody does, even the most annoying of cats. Mentioning of annoying, let's get on with Breezepelt. Obviously, his mother shouldn't have put the worm into his mind to hate Crowfeather. It's his parents' drama, not his, and he shouldn't have an opinion forced on him. If he decided to dislike Crowfeather himself, then cool, but I do agree about Nightcloud's manipulation of him.
Having the perspective of somebody whose father wasn't in their childhood, I can somewhat relate to Breezepelt and Nightcloud. Actually, now that I think about it, I relate to Breezepelt more than I do Nightcloud. Anyway, I understand both of their feelings and views, and Crowfeather's absence took a toll on the two of them. I highly relate to Breezepelt as somebody who has been manipulated and this may or may not turn into a "Breezepelt is misunderstood" post.
TLDR; Nightcloud and Breezepelt shouldn't have had to deal with Crowfeather's bs.
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Post by cable on Jun 13, 2023 17:29:07 GMT -5
Obviously, his mother shouldn't have put the worm into his mind to hate Crowfeather. see this is funny because our only source on this is crowfeather iirc. nightcloud had no problem with the two of them galivanting off into the mountains together, which could have been great bonding time, and she openly told crowfeather to have faith in his son. meanwhile, crowfeather treats his son like shit constantly and the pov characters all comment on how hes a terrible parent. in light of whats actually written in the books, its hard to see crowfeathers claim as anything other than the ol reliable manipulation tactic of abusive family members, “x made you hate me!” like. breezepelt did not need help hating crowfeather. crowfeather makes a great case for being hateable. like sorry i dont trust the guy who hit his son for being annoying and had the one positive interaction be “im going to encourage you to be xenophobic just to make my ex feel bad because she dared to choose her clan and family over me, a guy she barely knows” lol
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Post by Dark on Jun 13, 2023 17:34:32 GMT -5
Obviously, his mother shouldn't have put the worm into his mind to hate Crowfeather. see this is funny because our only source on this is crowfeather. nightcloud had no problem with the two of them galivanting off into the mountains together, which could have been great bonding time, and she openly told crowfeather to have faith in his son. meanwhile, crowfeather treats his son like shit constantly and the pov characters all comment on how hes a terrible parent. in light of whats actually written in the books, its hard to see crowfeathers claim as anything other than the ol reliable manipulation tactic of abusive family members, “x made you hate me!” like. breezepelt did not need help hating crowfeather. crowfeather makes a great case for being hateable. like sorry i dont trust the guy who hit his son for being annoying and had the one positive interaction be “im going to encourage you to be xenophobic just to make my ex feel bad because she dared to choose her clan and family over me, a guy she barely knows” lol I agree with this, and I think i may have worded my statement wrong. It is evidently Breezepelt's choice whether to hate his father or not, and honestly, if I was him, I would too. Nightcloud did egg him on a little, but it really was Breezepelt's own decision. I admit, though, it can be hard to sort through your own thoughts when others are putting things into your brain as well.
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Post by ! (Ġray) ! on Jun 13, 2023 17:52:21 GMT -5
Tigerclaw because of all the character studies I’ve done
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Post by cable on Jun 13, 2023 18:15:15 GMT -5
Tigerclaw because of all the character studies I’ve done interesting choice! id love to hear your in-depth thoughts
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Post by nowarriornameshere on Jun 13, 2023 20:53:29 GMT -5
Nobody gets Ashfur like I do. People look at him, they see all kinds of shit. They see an asshole, they see an incel, they see a murderer. But all I see when I see Ashfur... is an imposter. They thought he was dead, but he was among us all this time. He needed some way to vent his undying rage, so he did. And the cats who found him sus did too little, too late. And when the Clans voted on how to deal with him in that emergency meeting... man, I felt that. I FEEL that.
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Post by ! (Ġray) ! on Jun 13, 2023 21:18:54 GMT -5
Tigerclaw because of all the character studies I’ve done interesting choice! id love to hear your in-depth thoughts In Bluestars Prophecy and Secrets of the clans, he is shown to be a completely ordinary kit. He's happy, playful, just a pretty standard kit. I've done research into personality development theory and one theory, Social Cognitive theory, basically states that the development of a personality is entirely based off the experiences of a person, and the personalities of the person around them. Leopardfoot is a nice cat. She's never shown (as far as I remember) to do anything out of spite or ill-intent. When she was the cat Tigerkit interacted with most often, he had a pretty good personality. When Tigerpaw was an apprentice, his demeanor completely changed. He attacked Tiny with very little provocation from Thistleclaw, and in Redtails debt, it was revealed that he bullied the younger apprentices. The list goes on- he attacked Whitepaw in Bluestars Prophecy, and Thistleclaw told Spottedpaw that Tigerpaw had attacked him in Spottedleafs heart. Although this was most likely a lie, there must have been some reason for Spottedpaw to believe it, right? So what changed? Thistleclaw most likely was the cause of Tigerclaws evilness. He's shown repeatedly to be violent and have a short temper in Bluestars Prophecy. Thistleclaw neglected the more compassionate side of apprentice duties (taking care of the elders) to teach Tigerpaw more battle training, something he prioritised over everything else. I'm not sure if it was ever canonically confirmed, but didn't Thistleclaw unsheathe his claws and encourage Tigerclaw to do the same in battle training? Even if it wasn't, Thistleclaw still conditioned Tigerpaw to think that violence was okay, and that it was perfectly fine to harm cats below you (telling him to attack tiny, and arguing that Whitepaw hadn't earnt Tigerpaws respect when Bluestar confronts Thistleclaw about his injury). Vicky herself has said " his dark ambitions and actions are caused by his natural courage combined with Thistleclaw's mentoring." It's also quite likely that Tigerclaw saw Thistleclaw as a father figure with the absence of Pinestar in his life, which would make Thistleclaws influence over him even more powerful. Tigerpaw was the only apprentice for 2 moons (I'm pretty sure) due to the age gap between him and Whitepaw, which would give him nobody to compare Thistleclaws violent teaching methods against. Since he had no other littermates or apprentices to interact with, most of his interactions are now with Thistleclaw, who has already been shown to have a violent streak. Overall, Tigerstars villainous qualities can be attributed to Thistleclaw, his teaching style, and his personality rubbing off on Tigerstar while he was his apprentice. thank you for coming to my ted talk.
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Post by auser on Jun 14, 2023 2:20:48 GMT -5
hollyleaf is not a girlboss. she is a girlloser. she is spiraling out of control. she clings to law as a thin facsimile of supreriority because if she doesnt have that what does she have. and what happens when her very existence burns that support to ash. what happens when you embrace destiny only to be rejected by it. when you are no more special thananybody else, and cant see that you still have it all, because youre a prodigy beloved by your friends and family. you can kill as much as you want, but youll never kill that fear. her killing ashfur wasnt a cool moment or an act of protection. it was a tantrum. shes such a pathetic wet thing i love her. she's also disrespectful, rude, and controlling to other cats. she pissed off her brother a lot, because she constantly meddled into his business with heathertail. yeah, he shouldn't be breaking the code, but mind your own business? when millie wanted to keep her name, I'm pretty sure she was really rude about it. she's also racist too, complaining about mixed blood in the Clan. Hollyleaf didn't kill Ashfur to protect her brothers, and she certainly didn't do it our if self defense. she killed him in cold blood, knowing exactly what she was doing at the time. It's told in Sunrise through Jayfeather's thoughts, proven she knows exactly what she's doing is cold murder. she really doesn't deserve to be deputy, she was never good at handling her emotions, and she was still a control freak when she came back, calling out Ivypool and thinking she's with Redwillow. hollyleaf was never mature, and she doesn't deserve to be leader or deputy. hollyleaf is a horrible role model in the series, but she's probably one of the most interesting characters. it's unfortunate that she never really grows after returning, she becomes a bland background character instead. I relate a lot to Hollyleaf (even though I haven't done any crimes)
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Post by Hollyfall on Jun 14, 2023 2:23:29 GMT -5
interesting choice! id love to hear your in-depth thoughts In Bluestars Prophecy and Secrets of the clans, he is shown to be a completely ordinary kit. He's happy, playful, just a pretty standard kit. I've done research into personality development theory and one theory, Social Cognitive theory, basically states that the development of a personality is entirely based off the experiences of a person, and the personalities of the person around them. Leopardfoot is a nice cat. She's never shown (as far as I remember) to do anything out of spite or ill-intent. When she was the cat Tigerkit interacted with most often, he had a pretty good personality. When Tigerpaw was an apprentice, his demeanor completely changed. He attacked Tiny with very little provocation from Thistleclaw, and in Redtails debt, it was revealed that he bullied the younger apprentices. The list goes on- he attacked Whitepaw in Bluestars Prophecy, and Thistleclaw told Spottedpaw that Tigerpaw had attacked him in Spottedleafs heart. Although this was most likely a lie, there must have been some reason for Spottedpaw to believe it, right? So what changed? Thistleclaw most likely was the cause of Tigerclaws evilness. He's shown repeatedly to be violent and have a short temper in Bluestars Prophecy. Thistleclaw neglected the more compassionate side of apprentice duties (taking care of the elders) to teach Tigerpaw more battle training, something he prioritised over everything else. I'm not sure if it was ever canonically confirmed, but didn't Thistleclaw unsheathe his claws and encourage Tigerclaw to do the same in battle training? Even if it wasn't, Thistleclaw still conditioned Tigerpaw to think that violence was okay, and that it was perfectly fine to harm cats below you (telling him to attack tiny, and arguing that Whitepaw hadn't earnt Tigerpaws respect when Bluestar confronts Thistleclaw about his injury). Vicky herself has said " his dark ambitions and actions are caused by his natural courage combined with Thistleclaw's mentoring." It's also quite likely that Tigerclaw saw Thistleclaw as a father figure with the absence of Pinestar in his life, which would make Thistleclaws influence over him even more powerful. Tigerpaw was the only apprentice for 2 moons (I'm pretty sure) due to the age gap between him and Whitepaw, which would give him nobody to compare Thistleclaws violent teaching methods against. Since he had no other littermates or apprentices to interact with, most of his interactions are now with Thistleclaw, who has already been shown to have a violent streak. Overall, Tigerstars villainous qualities can be attributed to Thistleclaw, his teaching style, and his personality rubbing off on Tigerstar while he was his apprentice. thank you for coming to my ted talk. Interestingly I think Vicky said something similar years ago? Tigerclaw’s natural courage and ambition fuelled with Thistleclaw’s teaching and harsh mentorship style basically made Tigerclaw into who he became. I would need to find it though. This is really well said! I’d love to see more of these on other characters.
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Post by auser on Jun 14, 2023 2:26:41 GMT -5
This may or may not be controversial, but Nightcloud. Just... Nightcloud 100%. I'm not totally taking the blame off of her for Breezepelt's and her own actions, I'm just saying it's not fair to only notice her as the "jealous girl who manipulated her son and didn't trust her mate." Crowfeather was the one to ask her to be his mate, not the other way around, so, if I was Nightcloud, I would expect more from someone who asked me out. Crowfeather basically used Nightcloud to seem loyal to his clan, and that's just a **** move, my guy. She doesn't deserve that, nobody does, even the most annoying of cats. Mentioning of annoying, let's get on with Breezepelt. Obviously, his mother shouldn't have put the worm into his mind to hate Crowfeather. It's his parents' drama, not his, and he shouldn't have an opinion forced on him. If he decided to dislike Crowfeather himself, then cool, but I do agree about Nightcloud's manipulation of him. Having the perspective of somebody whose father wasn't in their childhood, I can somewhat relate to Breezepelt and Nightcloud. Actually, now that I think about it, I relate to Breezepelt more than I do Nightcloud. Anyway, I understand both of their feelings and views, and Crowfeather's absence took a toll on the two of them. I highly relate to Breezepelt as somebody who has been manipulated and this may or may not turn into a "Breezepelt is misunderstood" post. TLDR; Nightcloud and Breezepelt shouldn't have had to deal with Crowfeather's bs. As a child with divorced parents (though my dad is very present in my life), there are a few similarities in Breezepelt's story with my childhood : parents that hate each other (fortunately my dad divorced my mom before they could start fighting) and a mom that tries to get me to hate my dad (she didn't succeed in this, because of what she's doing, it makes me dislike her), also it took a long time for Nightcloud to get over it (I will be an adult in one year and a month and my mom is still fixated on my parents divorce)
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Aroace
#ffa100
Name Colour
𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑
Villain Enjoyer
Taking a break from the forums because my cat died. Will probably be back mid to late October.
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Post by 𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑 on Jun 14, 2023 2:53:59 GMT -5
This may or may not be controversial, but Nightcloud. Just... Nightcloud 100%. I'm not totally taking the blame off of her for Breezepelt's and her own actions, I'm just saying it's not fair to only notice her as the "jealous girl who manipulated her son and didn't trust her mate." Crowfeather was the one to ask her to be his mate, not the other way around, so, if I was Nightcloud, I would expect more from someone who asked me out. Crowfeather basically used Nightcloud to seem loyal to his clan, and that's just a **** move, my guy. She doesn't deserve that, nobody does, even the most annoying of cats. Mentioning of annoying, let's get on with Breezepelt. Obviously, his mother shouldn't have put the worm into his mind to hate Crowfeather. It's his parents' drama, not his, and he shouldn't have an opinion forced on him. If he decided to dislike Crowfeather himself, then cool, but I do agree about Nightcloud's manipulation of him. Having the perspective of somebody whose father wasn't in their childhood, I can somewhat relate to Breezepelt and Nightcloud. Actually, now that I think about it, I relate to Breezepelt more than I do Nightcloud. Anyway, I understand both of their feelings and views, and Crowfeather's absence took a toll on the two of them. I highly relate to Breezepelt as somebody who has been manipulated and this may or may not turn into a "Breezepelt is misunderstood" post. TLDR; Nightcloud and Breezepelt shouldn't have had to deal with Crowfeather's bs. As a child with divorced parents (though my dad is very present in my life), there are a few similarities in Breezepelt's story with my childhood : parents that hate each other (fortunately my dad divorced my mom before they could start fighting) and a mom that tries to get me to hate my dad (she didn't succeed in this, because of what she's doing, it makes me dislike her), also it took a long time for Nightcloud to get over it (I will be an adult in one year and a month and my mom is still fixated on my parents divorce) Nightcloud and Crowfeather don't hate each other though. And in terms of her taking "a long time" to "get over" finding out that her mate fathered a litter of kits with a (medicine) cat from a different Clan, CT takes place not that long after the end of OotS so it took her maybe a year at most to talk things out with Crowfeather in his book. They get along for Breezepelt's sake and also have made peace with each other at this point. And I do think she had a right to be upset considering that it was very evident in PoT and OotS that Crowfeather still had some type of feelings for Leafpool (and seemingly vice versa). While it's true that Crowfeather used Nightcloud to prove his loyalty to WindClan (he never outright loved her as alluded to in his SE), the other way around (Nightcloud using Crowfeather to have kits) has never been completely confirmed iirc (not even sure where it came from, did Rock say it during TUG?). In regards to Nightcloud intentionally turning Breezepelt against Crowfeather, all we have as so called evidence for that is Crowfeather's word for it during the Great Battle in TLH (when Breezepelt attacked Lionblaze). There has never been an on-screen confirmation to this actually being the case. Crowfeather was an absent/neglectful father in Breezepelt's life and he himself choose to do this as Nightcloud never tried to keep him from interacting with their son and even encouraged them to talk/for Crowfeather to show an interest in Breezepelt. But he barely even ever made an effort and that was by his own choice. Rock saying in TUG that Nightcloud coddled Breezepelt (basically spoiled him/was a helicopter parent) thus doesn't make much sense seeing as Nightcloud practically had to raise Breezepelt herself and make up for the fact that Crowfeather was never truly there for Breezepelt. And if he was (like in Outcast), he either ignored or belittled him. Crowfeather himself realized that he had not been a good father to Breezepelt (and that his other kits didn't need him since they saw Bramblestar as their father instead) in his SE.
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Jun 14, 2023 3:48:04 GMT -5
interesting choice! id love to hear your in-depth thoughts [snip] Great analysis and I love seeing more users delve into the psychology of fictional characters, but this was actually already confirmed by Vicky way back in 2010! I'm not sure if "misunderstood" would be the right word here, though. From what I've seen over the years, most people tend to agree with what Vicky had said, that Tigerclaw might've turned out differently were it not for Thistleclaw's mentoring. Pinestar's Choice implies he was born evil since StarClan apparently tells Pinestar to kill his son, but then again, it also includes a scene where Doestar tells him that he could shape Tigerkit's future just prior to this and I haven't seen anyone take the "born evil" interpretation seriously anyway
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Jun 14, 2023 4:10:44 GMT -5
While it's true that Crowfeather used Nightcloud to prove his loyalty to WindClan (he never outright loved her as alluded to in his SE), the other way around (Nightcloud using Crowfeather to have kits) has never been completely confirmed iirc (not even sure where it came from, did Rock say it during TUG?). Yeah, it was in TUG, but Rock doesn't narrate it. No one does, actually. That being said, he does say this about Nightcloud in Cats of the Clans! It should probably be noted that CotC came out after Outcast did and the worst things Nightcloud has done at this point in the timeline was side with Mudclaw (something that never once gets brought up anyway), refusing to let Crowfeather carry Breezepaw after he and Lionpaw nearly die, and be snippy towards Leafpool, who isn't exactly innocent in this regard, either.
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Post by ! (Ġray) ! on Jun 14, 2023 4:57:50 GMT -5
Alright, time for sol then:
SkyClan and the Stranger was the first warriors book I read, so Sol was one of the first characters I was ever introduced to. We can see in his backstory that his Mother was not a well liked cat, and he and his siblings were constantly running from something. Sol was never given a name as a child, never had a proper home, and his meals were few and far between. His father was absent in the lives of him and his siblings, leaving Sol with no close bonds to anyone as he was growing up. The only good part of his life was stories of SkyClan- and he later tells Leafstar that being a part of SkyClan is all he's ever wanted. So why then, would he steal Leafstars kits, something obviously morally wrong?
Sol is weaned by the time Cinders gave him and his siblings up for adoption, but is still definitely a kitten. We can estimate that he is beteen 2-5 moons when Cinders abandoned him. Because Sols twoleg had no other cats, and the cats previously in Sols life were hostile (the cats chasing his family away from food and shelter) or neglectful (his parents), Sol would never have been taught how to act properly. It's unconfirmed how old Sol is when he joined SkyClan, just that he's much older than an apprentice. I could go into every single action Sol did, but I won't, because I'm here to talk about why he's a villain. Cinders abandoned him and his siblings because she couldn't take care of them. When Sol tried to help, she told him he was too small and useless to do anything. Because he was "useless" Cinders was forced to give away her litter, and he was abandoned. In SkyClan, he is failing to pounce, jump, or do anything a SkyClan cat can do. Last time he couldn't take care of himself, he was abandoned. He's desperate: desperate enough to steal kits. Sol's had very little social interaction before this, definitely not enough to develop a proper moral compass. Although people are born with Moral compasses, its their parents and early life experiences that truly shape them. And as for Sol's other behaviours: his temper tantrum when he doesn't get his way and his manipulative nature, they were most likely caused by the influence of his owner. Most kittypets in Warriors are shown to be spoilt, self centred, or oblivious and Sol being coddled by his owner throughout his life would have grossly unprepared him for the consequences of his actions.
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Post by Quill on Jun 15, 2023 8:58:24 GMT -5
Alright, time for sol then: SkyClan and the Stranger was the first warriors book I read, so Sol was one of the first characters I was ever introduced to. We can see in his backstory that his Mother was not a well liked cat, and he and his siblings were constantly running from something. Sol was never given a name as a child, never had a proper home, and his meals were few and far between. His father was absent in the lives of him and his siblings, leaving Sol with no close bonds to anyone as he was growing up. The only good part of his life was stories of SkyClan- and he later tells Leafstar that being a part of SkyClan is all he's ever wanted. So why then, would he steal Leafstars kits, something obviously morally wrong? Sol is weaned by the time Cinders gave him and his siblings up for adoption, but is still definitely a kitten. We can estimate that he is beteen 2-5 moons when Cinders abandoned him. Because Sols twoleg had no other cats, and the cats previously in Sols life were hostile (the cats chasing his family away from food and shelter) or neglectful (his parents), Sol would never have been taught how to act properly. It's unconfirmed how old Sol is when he joined SkyClan, just that he's much older than an apprentice. I could go into every single action Sol did, but I won't, because I'm here to talk about why he's a villain. Cinders abandoned him and his siblings because she couldn't take care of them. When Sol tried to help, she told him he was too small and useless to do anything. Because he was "useless" Cinders was forced to give away her litter, and he was abandoned. In SkyClan, he is failing to pounce, jump, or do anything a SkyClan cat can do. Last time he couldn't take care of himself, he was abandoned. He's desperate: desperate enough to steal kits. Sol's had very little social interaction before this, definitely not enough to develop a proper moral compass. Although people are born with Moral compasses, its their parents and early life experiences that truly shape them. And as for Sol's other behaviours: his temper tantrum when he doesn't get his way and his manipulative nature, they were most likely caused by the influence of his owner. Most kittypets in Warriors are shown to be spoilt, self centred, or oblivious and Sol being coddled by his owner throughout his life would have grossly unprepared him for the consequences of his actions. My theory is that Sol is an unreliable narrator and misrepresented his tragic backstory for sympathy points. Everything else he does is shifty and dishonest, so why should we assume that he's being truthful about his backstory, especially when it's clearly used to get him something he wants?
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Post by dahliadove - #1 nightpelt fan on Jun 16, 2023 1:42:14 GMT -5
appledusk ... he did some bad stuff but people wanna throw him to the fiery pits for "cheating" (unconfirmed!!)
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Post by ! (Ġray) ! on Jun 16, 2023 5:16:25 GMT -5
appledusk ... he did some bad stuff but people wanna throw him to the fiery pits for "cheating" (unconfirmed!!) How is it unconfirmed he was cheating? Mapleshades kits were two moons when they died, and Reedshine was pregnant with his kits, so he was definitely cheating. He was most likely with Reedshine before she got pregnant as well. He shouldn't go to hell for it, but like, he is still a horrible person
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Post by Saint Ambrosef on Jun 16, 2023 22:35:36 GMT -5
appledusk ... he did some bad stuff but people wanna throw him to the fiery pits for "cheating" (unconfirmed!!) How is it unconfirmed he was cheating? Mapleshades kits were two moons when they died, and Reedshine was pregnant with his kits, so he was definitely cheating. He was most likely with Reedshine before she got pregnant as well. He shouldn't go to hell for it, but like, he is still a horrible person when i read it, i got the impression that he moved on from Mapleshade while she was still pregnant. i might be remembering wrong but didn't they agree to not talk to each other again until the kits were born? i personally interpreted it that he sort of just grew disillusioned with the fling in that time frame and moved on to Reedshine in that time, and didn't know how to communicate that to Mapleshade when he saw her again four (?) months later. i think there's multiple ways to interpret it. but in any situation he's pretty crappy about the whole thing.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2023 4:36:38 GMT -5
Blossomfall. A lot of people don’t like her because of that comment about Briarlight but it didn’t mean that she hated Briarlight for her injury, it was that she hated her sister’s injury. Another thing is that people “Blossomfall was an adult, so she shouldn’t have been whining.” Briarlight was an adult too, and Blossomfall had been spoiled by her mother for a long time, and then suddenly she only paid attention to one. And, Blossomfall knew that being jealous of Briarlight wasn’t good. She cared about her sister, and she felt like her mother didn’t care about her. Her father wasn’t really there for all this, and Bumblestripe was interested in Dovewing and to Blossomfall, it seemed like her brother had chosen Dovewing over her. Also, that comment she made “You know, you’ve stolen my brother’s heart,” wasn’t rude, it was just an fact phrased weirdly.
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Post by Jaysnow on Jun 17, 2023 14:47:07 GMT -5
appledusk ... he did some bad stuff but people wanna throw him to the fiery pits for "cheating" (unconfirmed!!) Facts
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Post by dahliadove - #1 nightpelt fan on Jun 17, 2023 23:55:38 GMT -5
appledusk ... he did some bad stuff but people wanna throw him to the fiery pits for "cheating" (unconfirmed!!) How is it unconfirmed he was cheating? Mapleshades kits were two moons when they died, and Reedshine was pregnant with his kits, so he was definitely cheating. He was most likely with Reedshine before she got pregnant as well. He shouldn't go to hell for it, but like, he is still a horrible person reedshine was shown pregnant later on, and her stomach was described as "barely swollen" - so not very pregnant at all. not to mention mapleshade is pretty disillusioned with life after her kits died so we aren't sure how long it was between her kits dying and reedshine being pregnant, because there's no confirmed time
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