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Post by Ivyclaw🪻 on May 27, 2023 7:29:42 GMT -5
She was quite loved back when Crookedstar's Promise came out, but now she's getting a lot of hate as a character?
I don't really blame people. Mapleshade's a... rather obnoxious, selfish, self-centered and never sees what she's done was wrong, and never cared about her Clanmates either
I'm glad she's getting more hate, because at this point Mapleshade's obnoxious. I'm tired of seeing her, and she was very selfish and stupid even before turning evil.
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Post by {Azure} on May 27, 2023 8:15:02 GMT -5
aww, i love her during mapleshades vengance, but i agree, after that she was awful
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Post by ! (Ġray) ! on May 27, 2023 8:21:31 GMT -5
She's okay
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2023 9:08:19 GMT -5
I like her as a character and think she has some very interesting elements to her story and as a villain. However, in regards to the main series, I'm just tired of her making appearances. She's gotten really samey. I've seen theories that she's behind what's happening in ASC and I truly feel that would completely ruin the entire arc. Overall I don't want any ghost villains for a while.
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Bisexual
#FF00EC
Name Colour
BҽɾɾყႦʅσσɱ
Villain Enjoyer
Currently sick with the flu...
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Post by BҽɾɾყႦʅσσɱ on May 27, 2023 12:45:34 GMT -5
I love her... as a villain <3
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Post by Quill on May 27, 2023 12:48:15 GMT -5
I dislike her because she turned into a one-note villain who the authors use as a crutch when they need a generic ghost baddie.
I am also so sick of all of the discourse surrounding Mapleshade, Ravenwing, Frecklewish, Appledusk, Reedshine, etc. It's always the same argument/talking points.
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Post by vectoring34 on May 27, 2023 13:18:43 GMT -5
I think that Mapleshade's monopoly on attention comes from her unfortunate position as one of the few female villains this series has, and even fewer who can be called good. I mean, what's her competition in the main series, a glorified intern in Sleekwhisker? For that reason, discourse around her is recycled constantly because if you want to discuss female villains, there's no real other option. Except for maybe Fury, but Fury, as much as I enjoy her design and concept, also has barely any pagetime. This monopoly on attention on Mapleshade then leads to her feeling overexposed, and so people dislike her. I bet if she died permanently or had some competition, people wouldn't mind her again.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on May 27, 2023 15:32:06 GMT -5
Starting? She's been getting hate for quite a while, the issue though is that people prop up her "victims" as saviors or innocent bystanders in her place, and absolve them of any blame as well. Forgetting that Mapleshade herself is also a victim. Look at the treatment Frecklewish has been getting lately, people have been excusing her terrible plain sight behavior just because they hate Mapleshade, while also trying to use hearsay to twist events, so she's some sort of fandom's "girl boss with a tragic backstory" it's strange.
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Post by cable on May 27, 2023 15:34:18 GMT -5
Starting? She's been getting hate for quite a while, the issue though is that people prop up her "victims" as saviors or innocent bystanders in her place, and absolve them of any blame as well. Forgetting that Mapleshade herself is also a victim. Look at the treatment Frecklewish has been getting lately, people have been excusing her terrible plain sight behavior just because they hate Mapleshade, while also trying to use hearsay to twist events, so she's some sort of fandom's "girl boss with a tragic backstory" it's strange. fandom will ask for morally complex or layered characters and then get upset when those morally complex and layered characters have flaws frecklewish deserves better than what a good chunk of the fandom gives her shes actually so neat but people just take all her interesting traits away because her having flaws would mean the situation is morally gray and, well, we cant have that in fandom. obviously we need a clear good guy and bad guy in any given situation /s
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Post by Hollyfall on May 27, 2023 15:46:44 GMT -5
Starting? She's been getting hate for quite a while, the issue though is that people prop up her "victims" as saviors or innocent bystanders in her place, and absolve them of any blame as well. Forgetting that Mapleshade herself is also a victim. Look at the treatment Frecklewish has been getting lately, people have been excusing her terrible plain sight behavior just because they hate Mapleshade, while also trying to use hearsay to twist events, so she's some sort of fandom's "girl boss with a tragic backstory" it's strange. fandom will ask for morally complex or layered characters and then get upset when those morally complex and layered characters have flaws frecklewish deserves better than what a good chunk of the fandom gives her shes actually so neat but people just take all her interesting traits away because her having flaws would mean the situation is morally gray and, well, we cant have that in fandom. obviously we need a clear good guy and bad guy in any given situation /s "we want complex and gray characters!" "no, not like that!"
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Post by Saint Ambrosef on May 27, 2023 17:54:44 GMT -5
Starting? She's been getting hate for quite a while, the issue though is that people prop up her "victims" as saviors or innocent bystanders in her place, and absolve them of any blame as well. Forgetting that Mapleshade herself is also a victim. Look at the treatment Frecklewish has been getting lately, people have been excusing her terrible plain sight behavior just because they hate Mapleshade, while also trying to use hearsay to twist events, so she's some sort of fandom's "girl boss with a tragic backstory" it's strange. i think thats a pretty disingenuous way to describe the frecklewish debate
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on May 28, 2023 0:38:33 GMT -5
Starting? She's been getting hate for quite a while, the issue though is that people prop up her "victims" as saviors or innocent bystanders in her place, and absolve them of any blame as well. Forgetting that Mapleshade herself is also a victim. Look at the treatment Frecklewish has been getting lately, people have been excusing her terrible plain sight behavior just because they hate Mapleshade, while also trying to use hearsay to twist events, so she's some sort of fandom's "girl boss with a tragic backstory" it's strange. i think thats a pretty disingenuous way to describe the frecklewish debate It's fine if you disagree. But I think it's still strange how a lot of media portrayals of Frecklewish lately is just her being depicted as a victim who's absolved of sins, while Mapleshade is just some evil cat that deserved zero leniency apparently. When in reality both character were in a very morally gray situation in the first place, since they were both victims. I feel like she's just getting the Squirrelflight treatment, the same thing happened with Needletail, Sleekwhisker, and Star Flower. But that's just my opinion on how I see it, just like my previous statement. It feels like people want to just strip Frecklewish of anything "bad" involving her character, so she seems like the clear "good" character in the situation.
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Post by nowarriornameshere on May 28, 2023 1:43:43 GMT -5
I liked her up until The Last Hope, where it became obvious that she was created to be the final solution to the "what does Firestar do about his women trouble once he hits StarClan" problem. Making her target Sandstorm specifically because she had the life Mapleshade wanted... yeah, sure, Mapleshade totally saw Sandstorm laying in a nest with a kittypet Clan Leader and decided that SHE was the one who lived the life that she wanted. Vicky just wanted Spottedleaf dead and wanted a "spectacular" way to end her existence before Firestar bit the dust.
Never mind that post-OOTS, she has basically been reduced to the Team Rocket Trio of the Dark Forest. At least Darkstripe had the grace to finally die doing what he loved (that is to say, seething about kittypets and mourning Tigerstar), but Mapleshade and Thistleclaw still just elicit groans from me whenever I see them after a certain point. She isn't threatening any more. She's been beaten often enough. We know she's a loser.
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Post by 🔥Firestar🔥 on May 28, 2023 3:27:17 GMT -5
I think the fandom has been shifting in opinions as of late, its like their menality changed. Years ago you would have people calling the permanent queens useless, now its almost impossible to find them. Dovewing used to be given nicknames and constantly put down by half of the fandom as "whiny" now she's more widely-liked. BrambeSquirrel too, barely anybody supports them anymore. Mapleshade has been overused so much she's practically old dust; i wouldn't be suprised if the cats she killed now seemed twice as interesting because they only appeared once. /hj
This is atleast what i've seen in the fandom i've interacted with.
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Post by Saint Ambrosef on May 28, 2023 7:16:36 GMT -5
i think thats a pretty disingenuous way to describe the frecklewish debate It's fine if you disagree. But I think it's still strange how a lot of media portrayals of Frecklewish lately is just her being depicted as a victim who's absolved of sins, while Mapleshade is just some evil cat that deserved zero leniency apparently. When in reality both character were in a very morally gray situation in the first place, since they were both victims. I feel like she's just getting the Squirrelflight treatment, the same thing happened with Needletail, Sleekwhisker, and Star Flower. But that's just my opinion on how I see it, just like my previous statement. It feels like people want to just strip Frecklewish of anything "bad" involving her character, so she seems like the clear "good" character in the situation. i’m sure there are a few people who have made “Frecklewish did nothigg wrong and shes great” videos, just as people have made “Mapleshade did nothing wrong and she’s a girlboss” videos. But most conversation I have seen regarding them are not as simple as that. I just think it’s unfair to portray the original disagreement on whether Frecklewish did anything wrong as “people just hate Mapleshade more”, ignoring people’s more legitimate and rational arguments (keep in mind most of the discussion took place BEFORE we had any sort of official confirmation, so most of the debate was on matters of multiple possible interpretation).
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Post by Ivyclaw🪻 on May 28, 2023 14:19:55 GMT -5
I think the fandom has been shifting in opinions as of late, its like their menality changed. Years ago you would have people calling the permanent queens useless, now its almost impossible to find them. Dovewing used to be given nicknames and constantly put down by half of the fandom as "whiny" now she's more widely-liked. BrambeSquirrel too, barely anybody supports them anymore. Mapleshade has been overused so much she's practically old dust; i wouldn't be suprised if the cats she killed now seemed twice as interesting because they only appeared once. /hj This is atleast what i've seen in the fandom i've interacted with. Ivypool's starting to have more criticism too, she's still well loved, but people are realizing she's actually pretty nasty (or at least just as bad as Dovewing) to Dovewing Squirrelflight had loads of fans, was probably one of the most popular characters in the series, now she's getting hate because of people being mean /aggressive about her. And people are getting tired of seeing her in the series as a main character. Dovewing still isn't exactly as popular, she's still heavily disliked, but I think people are at least understanding her PoV more and realizing she did indeed care about Ivypool and are understanding that she's not some demon from hell who purposely makes her sister suffer. Hrm, who else am I missing? Oh! I think Jayfeather will always be popular, but people seem to dislike him for being mean to people for no reason. I'm seeing people calling Hollyleaf a racist hypocrite these days, or once in a blue moon I'll see a fan say she "overreacted" about the Ashfur situation Millie has more people understanding her, but GAH, saying she wants Briarlight dead is just a nasty thing to say about your disabled daughter. Effing hate that. Frecklewish and Ravenwing were hated when MV first came out, nowadays I'm seeing people say "Frecklewish was grieving over her brother" or "Ravenwing was just doing his job" which is a fair argument, I guess.
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Post by Ivyclaw🪻 on May 28, 2023 14:31:10 GMT -5
I liked her up until The Last Hope, where it became obvious that she was created to be the final solution to the "what does Firestar do about his women trouble once he hits StarClan" problem. Making her target Sandstorm specifically because she had the life Mapleshade wanted... yeah, sure, Mapleshade totally saw Sandstorm laying in a nest with a kittypet Clan Leader and decided that SHE was the one who lived the life that she wanted. Vicky just wanted Spottedleaf dead and wanted a "spectacular" way to end her existence before Firestar bit the dust. Never mind that post-OOTS, she has basically been reduced to the Team Rocket Trio of the Dark Forest. At least Darkstripe had the grace to finally die doing what he loved (that is to say, seething about kittypets and mourning Tigerstar), but Mapleshade and Thistleclaw still just elicit groans from me whenever I see them after a certain point. She isn't threatening any more. She's been beaten often enough. We know she's a loser. Keeping mapleshade alive is fan service at this point. If she returns again, I'll throw a brick.
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Post by tigerheart on May 28, 2023 20:53:30 GMT -5
I love Mapleshade. ❤️❤️ Even though she is evil.
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2023 21:00:00 GMT -5
she has basically been reduced to the Team Rocket Trio of the Dark Forest. I will not stand for this Team Rocket slander. Mapleshade's character has the complexity of cereal compared to Team Rocket.
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Post by Hailfrost on May 29, 2023 11:44:50 GMT -5
Mapleshade is my third favorite character, in my opinion she is a great villain and character.
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Post by cheeselamps on May 29, 2023 21:35:38 GMT -5
She has always had lots of haters, probably because of how the fandom portrays Frecklewish, Ravenwing and sometimes Appledusk, like poor victims who did nothing wrong, ignoring the fact that Mapleshade was a victim as well. I also don't remember her being rude to her Clanmates or not caring about them, I think she was just prioritizing and protecting her children, which makes sense considering who their father was. They were in danger and she knew it.
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Post by Lizard 🦎 on May 29, 2023 22:07:03 GMT -5
starting? i've been here 😈 /lh
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Post by dahliadove - #1 nightpelt fan on May 30, 2023 1:35:04 GMT -5
Random but... I don't see how Mapleshade being all those things is enough of a reason to hate her. Hate her or not I don't care, not even much of a Mapleshade fan myself, but her being obnoxious, caring little about others, selfish, self-centred... that's because she's an antagonist. She's intended to be that way to further the plot.
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Post by dahliadove - #1 nightpelt fan on May 30, 2023 1:36:39 GMT -5
I think the fandom has been shifting in opinions as of late, its like their menality changed. Years ago you would have people calling the permanent queens useless, now its almost impossible to find them. Dovewing used to be given nicknames and constantly put down by half of the fandom as "whiny" now she's more widely-liked. BrambeSquirrel too, barely anybody supports them anymore. Mapleshade has been overused so much she's practically old dust; i wouldn't be suprised if the cats she killed now seemed twice as interesting because they only appeared once. /hj This is atleast what i've seen in the fandom i've interacted with. Ivypool's starting to have more criticism too, she's still well loved, but people are realizing she's actually pretty nasty (or at least just as bad as Dovewing) to Dovewing Squirrelflight had loads of fans, was probably one of the most popular characters in the series, now she's getting hate because of people being mean /aggressive about her. And people are getting tired of seeing her in the series as a main character. Dovewing still isn't exactly as popular, she's still heavily disliked, but I think people are at least understanding her PoV more and realizing she did indeed care about Ivypool and are understanding that she's not some demon from hell who purposely makes her sister suffer. Hrm, who else am I missing? Oh! I think Jayfeather will always be popular, but people seem to dislike him for being mean to people for no reason. I'm seeing people calling Hollyleaf a racist hypocrite these days, or once in a blue moon I'll see a fan say she "overreacted" about the Ashfur situation Millie has more people understanding her, but GAH, saying she wants Briarlight dead is just a nasty thing to say about your disabled daughter. Effing hate that. Frecklewish and Ravenwing were hated when MV first came out, nowadays I'm seeing people say "Frecklewish was grieving over her brother" or "Ravenwing was just doing his job" which is a fair argument, I guess. Also... actually? I don't think I've ever met a single person who likes Millie. And I'm on a ton of the sides of the forums - twitter, tumblr, youtube, forums, discord servers, blogclan, etc. I thought people always hated Millie for acting how she did.
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Post by ! (Ġray) ! on May 30, 2023 2:01:24 GMT -5
Yes I am leader of the Millie hate club
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2023 11:19:23 GMT -5
I like Millie and even much more prefer her to Silverstream. That being said I like her as a character and I like her relationship with Graystripe but still dislike how she handled the situation with Briarlight. Her reactions towards it are undeniably awful. Neither Graystripe nor Millie are winning parent of the year that's for sure.
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Post by Darkwillow on May 31, 2023 11:30:46 GMT -5
Ivypool's starting to have more criticism too, she's still well loved, but people are realizing she's actually pretty nasty (or at least just as bad as Dovewing) to Dovewing Squirrelflight had loads of fans, was probably one of the most popular characters in the series, now she's getting hate because of people being mean /aggressive about her. And people are getting tired of seeing her in the series as a main character. Dovewing still isn't exactly as popular, she's still heavily disliked, but I think people are at least understanding her PoV more and realizing she did indeed care about Ivypool and are understanding that she's not some demon from hell who purposely makes her sister suffer. Hrm, who else am I missing? Oh! I think Jayfeather will always be popular, but people seem to dislike him for being mean to people for no reason. I'm seeing people calling Hollyleaf a racist hypocrite these days, or once in a blue moon I'll see a fan say she "overreacted" about the Ashfur situation Millie has more people understanding her, but GAH, saying she wants Briarlight dead is just a nasty thing to say about your disabled daughter. Effing hate that. Frecklewish and Ravenwing were hated when MV first came out, nowadays I'm seeing people say "Frecklewish was grieving over her brother" or "Ravenwing was just doing his job" which is a fair argument, I guess. I can understand the backlash towards Ivypool's treatment of her sister, but she also has a lot of pent up jealousy. Obviously that's not an excuse to be rude, but I sympathize with her on the jealousy of a sibling experience. Dovewing also left Ivypool for Tigerstar 2 (at least that's how Ivypool saw it) and got upset about that as well, which is understandable. For Jayfeather, I get his grumpiness from having a childhood where people would fuss over him all the time when he obviously didn't want or need them to. He thinks people underestimate him because of his blindness, and don't forget Breezepelt tried to attack him sooo ;-; I'd be grumpy after that as well.
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