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Post by fuzzycat on Dec 21, 2022 1:53:10 GMT -5
i don't like either of them but i guess i'll choose squirrelflight because she has a pretty name and she is a great mum
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Post by stupidflower on Dec 21, 2022 12:27:04 GMT -5
the amount of people here who like bramblestar is honestly appalling and even a little disgusting considering how many of the female characters you guys hate. what did finchlight do to you? what did sparkpelt do to you? any of you? i think you all need to ask yourself what makes you like this character who has been known as abusive, controlling, and hypocritical for over 10 years, and why you hate the other characters. is it because they make bramblestar look worse? maybe you need to ask yourself why you’re so caught up on defending him. you guys are all sick. squirrelflight is one of the few female characters with a personality that isn’t quiet and undemanding. she’s interesting that way. she loves her family so much and would do anything to get them back. she helped her sister for her sake when she was having the three. she couldn’t of told anyone, the code forbids it. she was aleady trapped. brambleclaw has constantly belittled squirrelflight, from when she was suspicious about hawkfrost, when she was trying to help out the sisters, and after the reveal of the three’s parentage. he downright stopped talking to her entirely, and made her do apprentice tasks because he was upset. don’t you get how wrong that is? the recent books characterizing squirrelflight as rude and brash is entirely the erin’s fault, and i think instead of arguing on who’s right or wrong, you need to ask yourself why the erin’s are writing their characters like this. As a female who likes Bramblestar much more than Squirrelflight… what? For the Hawkfrost situation, I recommend you read maplefrost’s post in this thread. It does defend Bramblestar and does show evidence of Squirrelflight being in the wrong, and frankly I think her actions towards Brambleclaw were abysmal in that situation, for many reasons that that post provides. For the Bramblestar being controlling/abusive, which case are you referring to? I don’t believe him ignoring Squirrelflight in OoTS (for the record, that’s ALL he did) because she literally lied about his children being his own was abusive, or wrong at all. A breakup did and definitely should have occurred after that bombshell was dropped. Brambleclaw had EVERY right to stop that relationship after the secret was revealed. He was lied to about his own CHILDREN. Had the roles been reversed, would you blame Squirrelflight for ignoring Brambleclaw had it been him who lied? The stuff in SqH is mostly, imo, a power dynamic problem, and showcases the exact problem with their relationship when it comes to their ranks. I doubt people would be calling Bramblestar abusive had Squirrelflight not been his mate in that book. He treated her as most leaders would treat a deputy that disobeyed them, no matter how noble the reasons, and sometimes it can hard to differentiate their romantic and purely business-like relationship. As for sexism based on character preference, your point is a little strange. For most people, their appreciation of a character is not based on gender. I am a female whose favorites happen to be mostly males. This doesn’t make me sexist. Plus I do love some female characters (Bristlefrost, Leafstar, Ivypool, etc.), and hate some males too (Onestar, Crowfeather, Clear Sky, etc.). I think it’s very judgmental to be accusing some of us as being misogynistic based on our opinions about fictional fighting cat books. And to call us sick as well for opinions about certain characters? Our opinions do not define our whole being, nor our values and morals. We shouldn’t be judging each other based on these magic cat books, I think, and rather, have civil discussions instead. Of course, you can have your own opinions on Bramblestar! Just please don’t insult us about our opinions.
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Post by Known Troll Account on Jun 26, 2024 17:45:23 GMT -5
Neither. Bramblestar and Squirrelflight are both abusive to each other. Squirrelflight has been selfish ever since she wanted to go on the journey. She blackmailed Bramble, telling him he needed to take her with him or else she'll tell on him. It was an important journey and she knew it, but she was really selfish about it and threatened him.
Then Squirrelflight continues to act like an asshat about Hawkfrost just because of how Leafpool feels. I know Hawkfrost planned this from the beginning, but Squirrelflight acted like an asshole about Hawkfrost, telling Bramblestar he shouldn't be with his own brother. She's honestly a huge bitch about it, avoiding Bramble when he talks to his brother and then gives him the cold shoulder, then cries and wonders why he doesn't love her.
Then she lies to him about the Three. I really don't care if StarClan pressured her to do it, Yellowfang said she didn't have to do it, but she chose to anyway. Squirrelflight has a mouth and her own will, so she has every right to reject their pleas because she knew it would affect her life and relationships. The favor was a big deal, yet she chose to lie. Her kits aren't being "mean" to her, they're right to hate her for causing drama because Leafpool messed up.
Squirrelflight mopes around and then acts abusive when he's with Jessy, getting jealous when she moves her nest closer to Bramble. Squirrelflight is just as toxic as Bramblestar.
I see Bramblestar in Squirrelflight's Hope as a guy just trying to focus on his clan. She makes shit so much harder by asking for more kits when she already has Alderheart, Sparkpelt, and Leafpool's kits. I really don't blame fans for calling Squirrelflight selfish and mildly abusive, because she is selfish and awful to cats.
I don't like Squirrelflight, she treats cats to get what she wants and acts like a little shithead about it. I'm not praising Ashfur for wanting to kill her, but she's an asshole, I kind of don't blame him for turning into a killer who lost his shit because of her deranged behavior.
I have no opinion on Bramblestar, but, just because he's abusive to her, doesn't mean Squirrelflight has a free pass to be abusive back to him. She's the one who starts shit and everyone hated her for how she treated people back in 2010. I don't know why people are suddenly falling in love with this character, but Squirrelflight isn't very independent or sweet. She's an asshole when she doesn't get what she wants, and is very selfish about everything.
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Post by کیوان on Jun 26, 2024 17:50:28 GMT -5
I’ll take the time to read through this thread. It’s very profound! Until then, Sand 🎃
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Pansexual
Medicine cat
Nettle
woof woof
Pronouns: She/her, They/them.
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Post by Nettle on Jun 26, 2024 20:11:17 GMT -5
I don't really like either of them, but Bramblestar I like more. His character ranging from TNP all the way to ASC is honestly quite disappointing for me, but I really loved him in TPB. His relationship with Firestar was so wholesome I absolutely loved it. Also his emotional fights with his similarities and relation with his father always was intriguing.
Squirrelflight was cute at the beginning. Then she learned to talk. She always acted so bratty and reading about her made me want to claw my hair out. She reminds me of the kind of bratty princess who would pull out the, "My father is the king" card if she ever found herself in trouble.
But still, Squirrelflight is an interesting character, but Bramblestar is just better lol
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Pansexual
Medicine cat
Nettle
woof woof
Pronouns: She/her, They/them.
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Post by Nettle on Jun 26, 2024 20:28:39 GMT -5
i know. i think i should be allowed to ask the question “why” too. it just comes off as frankly misogynistic when people don’t have a single male character on their least favorite list, and then have a large amount of openly awful characters such as nightheart, brambleclaw, and crowfeather. I don't believe it's been suggested here at all that any of us have only male disliked characters? I don't understand why you are saying this without targeting one particular person or group on the fandom. It's very rare for a person to only dislike female characters.
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Post by کیوان on Jun 26, 2024 20:59:22 GMT -5
Gonna pitch in my take before Sand 🎃 gets here: They both have their strengths and weaknesses, sure. But I don't know, Bramble grew on me in a way that Squirrel never did. Living up to everyone's expectations when people begin doubting you is an interesting story idea, and the final TNP scene, as well as his PTSD arc in ASC, hit hard for me. As for Squirrel, I don't know, I guess I prefer Leafpool's calm tenacity. Squirrel's lack of action in the most recent book isn't helping my opinion of her, either. You only miss the sun when it starts to snow, I suppose. If anything, I'm just glad that we've made progress since 2019 and the playing field is more even for both sides. By how much is another question, but you take what you can get.
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Sunleap
Listen to Seventeen's Super, it's good for your health.
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Post by Sunleap on Jun 26, 2024 21:05:48 GMT -5
Gonna pitch in my take before Sand 🎃 gets here: They both have their strengths and weaknesses, sure. But I don't know, Bramble grew on me in a way that Squirrel never did. Living up to everyone's expectations when people begin doubting you is an interesting story idea, and the final TNP scene, as well as his PTSD arc in ASC, hit hard for me. As for Squirrel, I don't know, I guess I prefer Leafpool's calm tenacity. Squirrel's lack of action in the most recent book isn't helping my opinion of her, either. You only miss the sun when it starts to snow, I suppose. If anything, I'm just glad that we've made progress since 2019 and the playing field is more even for both sides. By how much is another question, but you take what you can get. The issue I have with Squirrel now is how sudden her change was. I know people might say "you didn't like her when she was fiery but now that she's settled you don't like it either." but It's too drastic to feel realistic. Almost like the Erin's knew some people's opinions on her and reacted. Now, asc isn't over and there's still the chance she doesn't have her 9 lives and that's why she's been more subdued, which would make sense but we'll see. Bramblestar also made more realistic descision imo that were based on real fears and drvies that we could see. Where squirrel on the other hand was "it's just her personality" which, even that isn't solid now.
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Post by کیوان on Jun 26, 2024 21:15:51 GMT -5
Gonna pitch in my take before Sand 🎃 gets here: They both have their strengths and weaknesses, sure. But I don't know, Bramble grew on me in a way that Squirrel never did. Living up to everyone's expectations when people begin doubting you is an interesting story idea, and the final TNP scene, as well as his PTSD arc in ASC, hit hard for me. As for Squirrel, I don't know, I guess I prefer Leafpool's calm tenacity. Squirrel's lack of action in the most recent book isn't helping my opinion of her, either. You only miss the sun when it starts to snow, I suppose. If anything, I'm just glad that we've made progress since 2019 and the playing field is more even for both sides. By how much is another question, but you take what you can get. The issue I have with Squirrel now is how sudden her change was. I know people might say "you didn't like her when she was fiery but now that she's settled you don't like it either." but It's too drastic to feel realistic. Almost like the Erin's knew some people's opinions on her and reacted. Now, asc isn't over and there's still the chance she doesn't have her 9 lives and that's why she's been more subdued, which would make sense but we'll see. Bramblestar also made more realistic descision imo that were based on real fears and drvies that we could see. Where squirrel on the other hand was "it's just her personality" which, even that isn't solid now. Yeah, even if she did end up becoming more passive down the line, I would've preferred to see her fiery side for a time before gradually settling in. They're just looking for an excuse to stack the odds against Frostpaw at this point, and when consistency is the name of the game, the last thing she needs is justification of her actions. As much as I dog on SqH, her rashness was very much... her. Something doesn't sit right with me.
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Post by Sand 🎃 on Jun 27, 2024 3:46:58 GMT -5
Oof, 2022… that was a long time ago. Although this discussion doesn’t look too bad surprisingly.
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Asexual
#8B0000
Name Colour
🎃👻🦇Brambleheart🦇👻🎃
this halloween i am doing the spookiest thing of all- an exam!
Pronouns: She/her, they/them
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Post by 🎃👻🦇Brambleheart🦇👻🎃 on Jun 27, 2024 9:29:36 GMT -5
literally tied 50/50 (50 votes for each lol)
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