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Post by Jaysnow on Oct 19, 2022 13:34:12 GMT -5
Obviously the book itself isn't actually out yet and only Hollyfall has actually read it. (I mean there are probably more that exists who knows) but what are your thoughts on the spoilers on events that occur in the book? I just knew Nightheart would be joining ShadowClan at the end.
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Post by ๐ฑ๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐ on Oct 19, 2022 13:40:40 GMT -5
Added spoiler labels for obvious reasons. I think it's all very interesting and exciting and I'm quite impatient to finally read the book myself in a few weeks. All three protagonists are so far still likeable to me although my ranking of them has shifted or rather will shift once I've read Sky properly. Tigerstar taking over RiverClan temporarily was a good cliffhanger and makes sense when looking back on the blurb for Shadow which revealed he was keeping a close eye on them. A very close one indeed.
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Post by Jaysnow on Oct 19, 2022 13:44:26 GMT -5
Added spoiler labels for obvious reasons. I think it's all very interesting and exciting and I'm quite impatient to finally read the book myself in a few weeks. All three protagonists are so far still likeable to me although my ranking of them has shifted or rather will shift once I've read Sky properly. Tigerstar taking over RiverClan temporarily was a good cliffhanger and makes sense when looking back on the blurb for Shadow which revealed he was keeping a close eye on them. A very close one indeed. There are a lot of interesting plot points and scenes I'm excited to read for myself as well. I think Tigerstar taking over RiverClan has potential but it just feels like a repeat of the "Fall of ShadowClan plot in A Vision of Shadows. I wish the authors would take the time to come up with some plots that haven't really been done yet.
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Post by ๐ฑ๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐ on Oct 19, 2022 14:36:02 GMT -5
Added spoiler labels for obvious reasons. I think it's all very interesting and exciting and I'm quite impatient to finally read the book myself in a few weeks. All three protagonists are so far still likeable to me although my ranking of them has shifted or rather will shift once I've read Sky properly. Tigerstar taking over RiverClan temporarily was a good cliffhanger and makes sense when looking back on the blurb for Shadow which revealed he was keeping a close eye on them. A very close one indeed. There are a lot of interesting plot points and scenes I'm excited to read for myself as well. I think Tigerstar taking over RiverClan has potential but it just feels like a repeat of the "Fall of ShadowClan plot in A Vision of Shadows. I wish the authors would take the time to come up with some plots that haven't really been done yet. The ShadowClan rebellion brewing on the horizon yet again in ASC feels way more like a repeat of AVoS to me than the RiverClan takeover at the end of Sky did. That reminds me more of the first Tigerstar, at least in concept but not a full on repeat, of course.
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Post by Jaysnow on Oct 19, 2022 14:37:58 GMT -5
There are a lot of interesting plot points and scenes I'm excited to read for myself as well. I think Tigerstar taking over RiverClan has potential but it just feels like a repeat of the "Fall of ShadowClan plot in A Vision of Shadows. I wish the authors would take the time to come up with some plots that haven't really been done yet. The ShadowClan rebellion brewing on the horizon yet again in ASC feels way more like a repeat of AVoS to me than the RiverClan takeover at the end of Sky did. That reminds me more of the first Tigerstar, at least in concept but not a full on repeat, of course. That also feels annoyingly like a repeat. So does the Tigerstar vs RiverClan thing though, at least in a way. I'm still interested in seeing the outcome.
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Post by ๐ฑ๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐ on Oct 19, 2022 14:40:53 GMT -5
The ShadowClan rebellion brewing on the horizon yet again in ASC feels way more like a repeat of AVoS to me than the RiverClan takeover at the end of Sky did. That reminds me more of the first Tigerstar, at least in concept but not a full on repeat, of course. That also feels annoyingly like a repeat. So does the Tigerstar vs RiverClan thing though, at least in a way. I'm still interested in seeing the outcome. Me too. Everything is such a mess. But a familiar one if that even makes any sense lol.
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Post by Jaysnow on Oct 19, 2022 14:44:30 GMT -5
That also feels annoyingly like a repeat. So does the Tigerstar vs RiverClan thing though, at least in a way. I'm still interested in seeing the outcome. Me too. Everything is such a mess. But a familiar one if that even makes any sense lol. Absolutely. It's not like Warriors is peak literature or anything, so even if the situations are similar I'm interested in seeing how they turn out- especially Tigerstar and the brewing ShadowClan civil war. His father dealt with the same thing and look where he is now (dead lol) so I wonder how it'll work out for Tigerstar.
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Post by ๐ฑ๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐ on Oct 19, 2022 14:55:40 GMT -5
Me too. Everything is such a mess. But a familiar one if that even makes any sense lol. Absolutely. It's not like Warriors is peak literature or anything, so even if the situations are similar I'm interested in seeing how they turn out- especially Tigerstar and the brewing ShadowClan civil war. His father dealt with the same thing and look where he is now (dead lol) so I wonder how it'll work out for Tigerstar. Exactly, it's still at least different enough from the previously similar plot points and storylines to be intriguing nonetheless. Oh, I personally hope Tigerstar either gets overthrown/outvoted by his Clanmates or that he dies. But the former is just much more likely due to him seemingly being such a popular character with the writing team.
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Post by Jaysnow on Oct 19, 2022 15:01:04 GMT -5
Absolutely. It's not like Warriors is peak literature or anything, so even if the situations are similar I'm interested in seeing how they turn out- especially Tigerstar and the brewing ShadowClan civil war. His father dealt with the same thing and look where he is now (dead lol) so I wonder how it'll work out for Tigerstar. Exactly, it's still at least different enough from the previously similar plot points and storylines to be intriguing nonetheless. Oh, I personally hope Tigerstar either gets overthrown/outvoted by his Clanmates or that he dies. But the former is just much more likely due to him seemingly being such a popular character with the writing team. I used to be a huge fan of Tigerheart/star but now I don't see how I can keep defending him. In this book he's just awful. I also hope he's voted out, but that seems unlikely.
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Post by ๐ฑ๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐ on Oct 19, 2022 15:10:05 GMT -5
Exactly, it's still at least different enough from the previously similar plot points and storylines to be intriguing nonetheless. Oh, I personally hope Tigerstar either gets overthrown/outvoted by his Clanmates or that he dies. But the former is just much more likely due to him seemingly being such a popular character with the writing team. I used to be a huge fan of Tigerheart/star but now I don't see how I can keep defending him. In this book he's just awful. I also hope he's voted out, but that seems unlikely. I mean, neither of us has actually read the book yet (which you will be doing sooner since you're getting it on the actual release date). So, it might still be good to hold off about full on judgment until then. You weren't a big fan of Onestar's Confession on its spoiler thread but did like it upon reading it yourself, after all. So perhaps, this situation might be similar and you'll still like Tigerstar after reading about his role in Sky more cohesively than on a spoiler thread with mere chapter summaries.
But yeah, people can still like Tigerstar even in this arc, if they want to. The last time I've ever liked him was all the way back in PoT, so there's that.
Perhaps he will be replaced or perhaps he won't. I'm just going to keep my hopes up until they are either shattered or come true.
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Post by Jaysnow on Oct 19, 2022 15:16:48 GMT -5
I used to be a huge fan of Tigerheart/star but now I don't see how I can keep defending him. In this book he's just awful. I also hope he's voted out, but that seems unlikely. I mean, neither of us has actually read the book yet (which you will be doing sooner since you're getting it on the actual release date). So, it might still be good to hold off about full on judgment until then. You weren't a big fan of Onestar's Confession on its spoiler thread but did like it upon reading it yourself, after all. So perhaps, this situation might be similar and you'll still like Tigerstar after reading about his role in Sky more cohesively than on a spoiler thread with mere chapter summaries.
But yeah, people can still like Tigerstar even in this arc, if they want to. The last time I've ever liked him was all the way back in PoT, so there's that.
Perhaps he will be replaced or perhaps he won't. I'm just going to keep my hopes up until they are either shattered or come true. Well yeah. Yep, about 13 days left now. Maybe sooner if I'm lucky. That's possible? But it doesn't really sound like he's being a good guy. We'lls ee if I change my mind, I'll post a thread on my thoughts after I complete the book.
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Post by ๐ฑ๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐ on Oct 19, 2022 15:22:02 GMT -5
I mean, neither of us has actually read the book yet (which you will be doing sooner since you're getting it on the actual release date). So, it might still be good to hold off about full on judgment until then. You weren't a big fan of Onestar's Confession on its spoiler thread but did like it upon reading it yourself, after all. So perhaps, this situation might be similar and you'll still like Tigerstar after reading about his role in Sky more cohesively than on a spoiler thread with mere chapter summaries.
But yeah, people can still like Tigerstar even in this arc, if they want to. The last time I've ever liked him was all the way back in PoT, so there's that.
Perhaps he will be replaced or perhaps he won't. I'm just going to keep my hopes up until they are either shattered or come true. Well yeah. Yep, about 13 days left now. Maybe sooner if I'm lucky. That's possible? But it doesn't really sound like he's being a good guy. We'lls ee if I change my mind, I'll post a thread on my thoughts after I complete the book. I have seen some people talking about the spoiler thread argue that he seems to genuinely want to help while others think he is only pretending to be nice. That was before the RiverClan takeover was revealed though so who knows what those same people think now. I'm just not a fan of Tigerstar II and haven't been for a long time so my stance is pretty clear.
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Post by ๐ฃ๐ฒ๐ท๐พ๐ฟ๐ฒ๐ฎ๐ต on Oct 19, 2022 15:22:35 GMT -5
Frostpaw is the only protagonist I'm interested in, so there's that. Also, Tigerstar II is really living up to his namesake and I hate it!
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Asexual
#07B04C
star_black.png
Name Colour
แนขanษypawโข
The Shiny User
๐ตGuess that's just the way it goes, easy come, easy go๐ต
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Post by แนขanษypawโข on Oct 19, 2022 18:12:13 GMT -5
From reading the spoilers, it seems really interesting if you consider what's happening in RC. I feel like the succession crisis there contributed to the majority of the action in the book. Otherwise I feel it was Nightheart bring cranky, Sunbeam being heartbroken, and everyone worrying about green cough. I'll have to read it myself to see if I really like it or not. The cliffhanger was great though, I can't wait to see what happens to Tigerstar and RiverClan now.
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Post by Chicken on Oct 21, 2022 11:55:56 GMT -5
From what I saw on the other spoiler thread, it seems like it'll be good, I look forward to seeing what will happen next As much as Nightheart annoys me, I honestly find him to be one of the most relatable protagonists we've had I know all too well how it feels to feel like everyone hates you and they think all these bad things about you because of a couple of people Like with me and what happened with people here, it was a couple of years ago and I'm still not over it, I used to be online 24/7 and now I hardly get on anymore and a lot of it's because I've been busy but another huge chunk of it is because of how I was treated by some of the people in this fandom especially when I didn't even do anything to them really fractured my ability to communicate with people because I was afraid of talking too much, too little, to sound "fake", all that stuff that I had no worries about, I was just trying to make friends with people who also like this series and to discuss with people but that was tarnished To make matters worse I didn't even do anything to these people before they started bullying me, and yet they apologized to everyone except me which just fueled the fire even more I think this is a perfect example how one minor thing can be a major issue for someone depending on how they choose to internalize and if it's ever resolved for them, it's hard for some people to move past something especially when there's not closure, and in both mine and Nightheart's cases, there hasn't been closure yet so while he does annoy me, I can understand where he's coming from with the whole letting things go Other than that... I like the characterization of Owlnose, he seems like an ESFJ/ISFJ which I find to be rare for male characters so that's awesome If Splashtail is a villain I won't be surprised, I mean he is a dark brown tabby XD I know it won't happen, but I wish Nightheart would join WindClan instead of ShadowClan, but him joining ShadowClan makes a lot more sense, so it's fine I really hope they don't ruin Tigerheart beyond repair because I really like him
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Post by Hollyfall on Oct 21, 2022 14:27:02 GMT -5
Frostpaw's chapters were the only saving grace of the book tbh. It was a chore to get through. Everybody else (beyond RiverClan and a select few others) is either unfathomably frustrating to read about or just flip-flopping their actions to suit the narrative.
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Post by Chicken on Oct 21, 2022 15:14:28 GMT -5
I also thought about something else Scorchfur not being part of Berryheart's group doesn't seem too surprising to me, as he's never really seemed to care that much about the code, he seems to be very much an I'm going with what I believe vs what the rules says is right kind of guy so I doubt he cares much about the code being changed but this is only book two, stuff can happen in the future
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Post by Saint Ambrosef on Oct 21, 2022 16:38:37 GMT -5
Frostpaw's POV is of course interesting, but Sunbeam's has piqued my curiosity.
Right now it seems kinda boring; however, the ending of Sky has me thinking Sunbeam's arc will be about figuring out who she is and what she stands for. I'm hoping that this forthcoming relationship with Nightheart will effectively be a rebound for her, an obsessively hopeless romantic path that doesn't end well. Maybe Nightheart joins ShC successfully and she later realizes it was a mistake, maybe he can't and it causes her inner-clan problems, idk - but I want her to recognize that they were being way too rash in their ""love"", and she forms an opinion that switching clans for love needs to be somewhat restricted to prevent cats from rushing into it mistakenly. In the mean time, Sunbeam will realize she doesn't actually want a mate and her chasing toms was based on insecurity.
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Post by Jaysnow on Oct 23, 2022 21:18:34 GMT -5
Overall I'd give it a solid 7/10. Some plot points and character developments I'm not fond of and the quest was pretty dull, but the RiverClan plot made the whole book engaging and worthwhile. I really want to know what happens with Tigerstar and RiverClan next.
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Post by ~Phoenixwing~ on Oct 24, 2022 14:53:11 GMT -5
I dont really think Tigerheartstar isn't being that unreasonable. Riverclan is clearly falling apart if they cant even upkeep their living space, and nobody wants to lead (which is honestly surprising). Their dysfuncion did help cause the death of his child, as riverclan would not share herbs due to shutting everyone out and trying to hide things. Riverclan is too weak to be relief upon and the clans need eathother strong. That being said, I do think its a bit lame that it came to this, because if Reedwhisker was killed on purpose, why is the conspiracy group that supposedly did it not trying to plant another leader? Did Curlfeather's death break them so easily?[/spoilers]
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Post by Hollyfall on Oct 24, 2022 15:09:21 GMT -5
I dont really think Tigerheartstar isn't being that unreasonable. Riverclan is clearly falling apart if they cant even upkeep their living space, and nobody wants to lead (which is honestly surprising). Their dysfuncion did help cause the death of his child, as riverclan would not share herbs due to shutting everyone out and trying to hide things. Riverclan is too weak to be relief upon and the clans need eathother strong. That being said, I do think its a bit lame that it came to this, because if Reedwhisker was killed on purpose, why is the conspiracy group that supposedly did it not trying to plant another leader? Did Curlfeather's death break them so easily?[/spoilers]
Tigerstar has a point that they're in shambles and do need help, that much is clear, but I think it's more the fact that he came to their camp with the intentions of either show of force (the latter two chapters seem to indicate he didn't want a fight), or just outright submission to authority, which is what he did. He's told several times to back off and go home but yet refuses. He's still obviously grieving for Rowankit, but it's not RiverClan's fault he died. Tigerstar and others might think that, but it's hardly the case in reality. Tigerstar quite literally walks into their camp and beats them down, installs himself as their acting leader while keeping poor Owlnose as his puppet leader and making RiverClan a vassal Clan of his now. His intentions may be good, but his execution is awful.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2022 15:23:37 GMT -5
I dont really think Tigerheartstar isn't being that unreasonable. Riverclan is clearly falling apart if they cant even upkeep their living space, and nobody wants to lead (which is honestly surprising). Their dysfuncion did help cause the death of his child, as riverclan would not share herbs due to shutting everyone out and trying to hide things. Riverclan is too weak to be relief upon and the clans need eathother strong. That being said, I do think its a bit lame that it came to this, because if Reedwhisker was killed on purpose, why is the conspiracy group that supposedly did it not trying to plant another leader? Did Curlfeather's death break them so easily?[/spoilers]
Tigerstar has a point that they're in shambles and do need help, that much is clear, but I think it's more the fact that he came to their camp with the intentions of either show of force (the latter two chapters seem to indicate he didn't want a fight), or just outright submission to authority, which is what he did. He's told several times to back off and go home but yet refuses.ย He's still obviously grieving for Rowankit, but it's not RiverClan's fault he died. Tigerstar and others might think that, but it's hardly the case in reality. Tigerstar quite literally walks into their camp and beats them down, installs himself as their acting leader while keeping poor Owlnose as his puppet leader and making RiverClan a vassal Clan of his now. His intentions may be good, but his execution is awful.ย Not to mention that not only did he take their clan by force, but he also seemed to have zero qualms about killing anyone who didn't stand down. In what way is that trying to help? I can't for the life of me understand how anyone thinks what he did was okay in the slightest. Maybe his intentions were good, but if he really cared he would have gone about it another way. I saw someone mention that he could have easily helped by teaching Owlnose how to be a leader, and I agree with that completely. Grief and good intentions aren't an excuse for what he did.
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Post by ๐ฑ๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐ on Oct 24, 2022 15:57:58 GMT -5
I dont really think Tigerheartstar isn't being that unreasonable. Riverclan is clearly falling apart if they cant even upkeep their living space, and nobody wants to lead (which is honestly surprising). Their dysfuncion did help cause the death of his child, as riverclan would not share herbs due to shutting everyone out and trying to hide things. Riverclan is too weak to be relief upon and the clans need eathother strong. That being said, I do think its a bit lame that it came to this, because if Reedwhisker was killed on purpose, why is the conspiracy group that supposedly did it not trying to plant another leader? Did Curlfeather's death break them so easily?
Seeing as Hollyfall already pointed out what exactly is wrong with Tigerstar's way of thinking and how he's treating RiverClan, I'm just going to focus on this bolded bit right there now: I'm pretty sure it would be considered highly stupid by readers if the RiverClan conspiracists had revealed themselves while their Clan is in the process of getting taken over (albeit temporarily) by a way stronger and better organized (at the moment) ShadowClan. They will most likely meet up in secret during Shadow (and off-screen unless they are exposed soon) and discuss on how to proceed further while the leadership of RiverClan is out of each due to Tigerstar's forced involvement in their lives. If anything, they are being smart by still hiding among their other Clanmates while most of them are none the wiser about what actually happened to Reedwhisker (and wether or not Curlfeather, who is now confirmed to be a StarClan cat, was involved with them as well).
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Post by ~Phoenixwing~ on Oct 24, 2022 15:59:13 GMT -5
Owlnose clearly isnt cut out to even be a leader though, nor does he want to (though I did find it shocking just how rude and dismissive all the other leaders were to him). But yeah, Tigerstar wouldnt have bothered to teach a lost cause. Again I mostly find it lame we're not getting more internal succession drama and some evil murderer didnt istall themselves and possibly lie about having 9 lives. Edit: I still dont see Tigerstar as being /that/ bad. We've just had two arcs /in a row/ that shows what happens when a clan has poor leadership and it becomes a provlem for everyone else. Maybe its a bit drastic, but all the clans should be helping, honestly.
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Post by ๐ฑ๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐ on Oct 24, 2022 16:14:21 GMT -5
Owlnose clearly isnt cut out to even be a leader though, nor does he want to (though I did find it shocking just how rude and dismissive all the other leaders were to him). But yeah, Tigerstar wouldnt have bothered to teach a lost cause. Again I mostly find it lame we're not getting more internal succession drama and some evil murderer didnt istall themselves and possibly lie about having 9 lives. I mean, Sky is only the second book of this arc (which is not even officially out yet). The impostor from the previous arc got his true identity properly revealed to be Ashfur in the fourth book (while getting temporarily defeated in the third one). Of course, the conflict was structured differently there and readers knew that "Bramblestar" was fake by the second book but still. It would now in the current arc just be too early to reveal most of what is going on by the second book. I'm sure a lot more of interesting things will happen plot-wise (and character-wise) in the third book of ASC Shadow. Book threes in the Warriors series tend to have a habit of having halfway finales in them, after all. As for "some evil murderer", while I'm not sure about exactly that being what is going on, Sky ended with Splashtail at least looking rather murderous (or moreso filled with rage) for just a moment. Just saying: Thank you to Hollyfall for the page screenshot.
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Post by ~Phoenixwing~ on Oct 24, 2022 16:19:57 GMT -5
Yeah, Splashtail is at the very least involved somehow, I think. There's a theory that he planted the 'curled feather' sign. I do hope to see more from him.
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Post by Hollyfall on Oct 24, 2022 16:55:14 GMT -5
Owlnose clearly isnt cut out to even be a leader though, nor does he want to (though I did find it shocking just how rude and dismissive all the other leaders were to him). But yeah, Tigerstar wouldnt have bothered to teach a lost cause. Again I mostly find it lame we're not getting more internal succession drama and some evil murderer didnt istall themselves and possibly lie about having 9 lives. Edit: I still dont see Tigerstar as being /that/ bad. We've just had two arcs /in a row/ that shows what happens when a clan has poor leadership and it becomes a provlem for everyone else. Maybe its a bit drastic, but all the clans should be helping, honestly. That's part of the problem. He's well aware Owlnose has little leadership experience, yet keeps him as RiverClan's leader regardless? Same goes for Splashtail. It'd be wiser to appoint someone with more experience such as Icewing, Duskfur, or Mallownose. Tigerstar has all the power to demote him completely yet doesn't. Besides, giving Owlnose a few pointers would be way easier than just taking over the Clan. Coming from someone who likes Tigerstar (most of the time, anyways), he does have a point about not letting the problem fester and trying to resolve it before it gets worse, as AVoS and TBC showed us firsthand when Clans have bad leadership. The problem I think most people have is that he just walks in, uses brute force to beat RiverClan into submission, and then runs the show from there. Though you're right in that the other Clans should be helping them out too. Not by invading obviously, but sending over a few cats or having the leaders teach Owlnose. If it even comes to it, install other cats in the leadership. tl;dr: Good intentions (for the most part it seems), but the way he's going about it is terrible.
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Post by Jaysnow on Oct 24, 2022 19:30:30 GMT -5
Owlnose clearly isnt cut out to even be a leader though, nor does he want to (though I did find it shocking just how rude and dismissive all the other leaders were to him). But yeah, Tigerstar wouldnt have bothered to teach a lost cause. Again I mostly find it lame we're not getting more internal succession drama and some evil murderer didnt istall themselves and possibly lie about having 9 lives. Edit: I still dont see Tigerstar as being /that/ bad. We've just had two arcs /in a row/ that shows what happens when a clan has poor leadership and it becomes a provlem for everyone else. Maybe its a bit drastic, but all the clans should be helping, honestly. That's part of the problem. He's well aware Owlnose has little leadership experience, yet keeps him as RiverClan's leader regardless? Same goes for Splashtail. It'd be wiser to appoint someone with more experience such as Icewing, Duskfur, or Mallownose. Tigerstar has all the power to demote him completely yet doesn't. Besides, giving Owlnose a few pointers would be way easier than just taking over the Clan. Coming from someone who likes Tigerstar (most of the time, anyways), he does have a point about not letting the problem fester and trying to resolve it before it gets worse, as AVoS and TBC showed us firsthand when Clans have bad leadership. The problem I think most people have is that he just walks in, uses brute force to beat RiverClan into submission, and then runs the show from there. Though you're right in that the other Clans should be helping them out too. Not by invading obviously, but sending over a few cats or having the leaders teach Owlnose. If it even comes to it, install other cats in the leadership. tl;dr: Good intentions (for the most part it seems), but the way he's going about it is terrible. I usually like him but not anymore. He's honestly just a bully at this point. Like you said, he was told multiple times to go back home but refused..
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