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Post by Aqua on Oct 12, 2022 12:16:17 GMT -5
What's your opinion on Frecklewish from MV?
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Heterosexual
Epic Grandmaster of Headcanons
ˈʔɛɱb̪ɻ̩f̞ʊt̠̚
Message me your headcanons pls
Pronouns: He/him/his (but they's good too)
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Post by ˈʔɛɱb̪ɻ̩f̞ʊt̠̚ on Oct 12, 2022 12:19:03 GMT -5
Don't like her. She's just ugh
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2022 12:20:54 GMT -5
I like her and I like the discussions people have on whether or not she should be in the Dark Forest.
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Heterosexual
Epic Grandmaster of Headcanons
ˈʔɛɱb̪ɻ̩f̞ʊt̠̚
Message me your headcanons pls
Pronouns: He/him/his (but they's good too)
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Post by ˈʔɛɱb̪ɻ̩f̞ʊt̠̚ on Oct 12, 2022 12:23:30 GMT -5
@mudgoose That's very true, I do like those.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Oct 12, 2022 12:35:53 GMT -5
Hate, and I find the whole "girlbossification" era she went through this year to be annoying.
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Aroace
Tilu
Stop saying you're going to the moon!
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Post by Tilu on Oct 12, 2022 13:20:56 GMT -5
I'm neutral, I never really liked Mapleshade's vengeance. In my opinion her being in the Dark Forest is extremely dumb if cats like Appledusk and Russetfur are in StarClan. I'm not sure, maybe Frecklewish did some horrible sin before the book started but I believe nothing in the book (reasonably) warrants her placement
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Post by angyfrog on Oct 12, 2022 13:47:46 GMT -5
Not an amazing character by any means, but compared to cats who did some very freaky stuff at one point or another, ex, Ashfur, Russetfur, Clear-Sky, Mudclaw, Blackfoot, Breezepelt, etc, I definitely wouldn't say she belongs in cat hell where everyone is a murderer, just seems so out of the place too because I truly doubt Mapleshade wouldn't have killed her the moment she got into DF, there's no way that girl has somehow evaded Maple for 28 years (Give or take, wiki timelines)
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Bisexual
#FF00EC
Name Colour
BҽɾɾყႦʅσσɱ
Villain Enjoyer
Pretty busy irl so not online as much atm...
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Post by BҽɾɾყႦʅσσɱ on Oct 12, 2022 13:52:01 GMT -5
Dislike! While I'm still thinking it's not really fair that only she got put in the DF out of the MV cats (excluding Mapleshade for already being there) and not Oakstar (and possibly Ravenwing too) as well, the fact that some people have started to excuse all of her behaviour and absolve her of how she treated the AppleMaple kits (and Maple pre her murder spree) has soured her image for me even more this year.
How about instead of fans trying to portray either Frecklewish or Mapleshade as "innocent uwu girlbosses who did nothing wrong ever in their life" we can acknowledge they are both bad cats in their own ways and move on?
Sorry about the slight rant at the end but I've just grown a bit tired of seeing Frecklewish seemingly get the same treatment nowadays Mapleshade did back when she got introduced and even after CP and MV had come out with a lot of readers defending her every choice (even murder). Neither her nor Freckle are blameless characters to me.
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Post by SquipyCheetah on Oct 12, 2022 15:24:08 GMT -5
Most of the reason I like Frecklewish is from headcanons but if we're talking strictly canon... She's alright. I'm mainly neutral and I don't really have an opinion of her afterlife situation canon-wise anyways.
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Asexual
#07B04C
star_black.png
Name Colour
Ṣanɗypaw™
The Shiny User
🎵Guess that's just the way it goes, easy come, easy go🎵
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Post by Ṣanɗypaw™ on Oct 12, 2022 18:38:17 GMT -5
Dislike/neutral.
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Post by honeynectar on Oct 12, 2022 18:45:30 GMT -5
I'm neutral, I never really liked Mapleshade's vengeance. In my opinion her being in the Dark Forest is extremely dumb if cats like Appledusk and Russetfur are in StarClan. I'm not sure, maybe Frecklewish did some horrible sin before the book started but I believe nothing in the book (reasonably) warrants her placement She did jackshit while Maple and her kittens were flailing in the river, didn't even try to get the attention of the RiverClan patrol. Meanwhile Fireheart and Greystripe, two warriors WAY younger than her, dived into a whole flash flood and saved two RiverClan kits.
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Post by rabbit on Oct 12, 2022 20:35:39 GMT -5
Honestly, I’ve never liked her when I initially read the novella. Thought she was annoying when it came to Mapleshade’s kits.
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Aroace
Tilu
Stop saying you're going to the moon!
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Post by Tilu on Oct 13, 2022 1:27:14 GMT -5
I'm neutral, I never really liked Mapleshade's vengeance. In my opinion her being in the Dark Forest is extremely dumb if cats like Appledusk and Russetfur are in StarClan. I'm not sure, maybe Frecklewish did some horrible sin before the book started but I believe nothing in the book (reasonably) warrants her placement She did jackshit while Maple and her kittens were flailing in the river, didn't even try to get the attention of the RiverClan patrol. Meanwhile Fireheart and Greystripe, two warriors WAY younger than her, dived into a whole flash flood and saved two RiverClan kits. Okay, sure, but why is Russetfur and her patrol still in StarClan, she watched Berrykit stuck in the fox-trap like entertainment. He was a ThunderClan cat by then and eitherway if your going to say he's not, Mapleshade's kits were exiled with her, they weren't any clan
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Post by Twilight Sparkle on Oct 13, 2022 6:07:12 GMT -5
A mix between dislike and neutral.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Oct 13, 2022 8:31:28 GMT -5
She did jackshit while Maple and her kittens were flailing in the river, didn't even try to get the attention of the RiverClan patrol. Meanwhile Fireheart and Greystripe, two warriors WAY younger than her, dived into a whole flash flood and saved two RiverClan kits. Okay, sure, but why is Russetfur and her patrol still in StarClan, she watched Berrykit stuck in the fox-trap like entertainment. He was a ThunderClan cat by then and eitherway if your going to say he's not, Mapleshade's kits were exiled with her, they weren't any clan The difference is lifespan. Russetfur (technically) didn't break the code because Berrykit was a cat outside of the code. As horrible as we think it is morally, she, and the other members of the patrol were still doing what they believed to be right at the time. I personally also don't think any cat on that patrol actually was watching Berrykit with some sort of malicious of sadistic enjoyment either. They were just cautious enough not to cross borders and go near traps, especially since they didn't even know how to deal with traps. And if they had just left Berrykit there by himself all together, he could have just been picked off by a possible passing predator. Them staying by and monitoring him, although morally messed up by our standards, was still arguably better than just abandoning him all together. By no means does that excuse any of those patrol cats imo, but there is nuance that can be discussed there. Also, Russetfur has lived out her entire life, and served her job as a warrior of ShadowClan, and one of the longest running deputies in the main series. She is noted for her fierce loyalty and dedication to her clan first and foremost, and died serving them in battle until the very end. Her situation is not the same as Frecklewish's. Frecklewish didn't live much longer after what she did, in fact it's because she attacked Mapleshade that she ended up in the predicament that she did afterward. All Mapleshade had to do was side step her, and then watch Frecklewish fall into the jaws of a snake. If she had done the smart thing and turn and fled, she could have possibly had a different outcome. And not just then, she could have done many things prior to change the the events of MV if she actually cared enough. She did have the lifetime to make up for what she did compared to Russetfur, or a closer comparison would be her father, who outlives her much longer. Even Ravenwing (by code standards) was just following what he believed to be the right thing, because he's a medicine cat (like what Russetfur did with Berrykit). And Appledusk also died a "noble" death, because he died saving his pregnant mate from a death blow. And when it comes to Mapleshade, her kits are still clan kits by blood, even if she currently wasn't a member of ThunderClan anymore. This isn't the same as Berrykit who was born a kittypet. Mapleshade's kits were part ThunderClan and part RiverClan by blood, which is more than a enough reason for those kits to have residency, by birth right. And the only reason the kits were exiled was because of who their father was first, and the omen Raven had second. The kits would have had a pretty good chance being allowed to stay in RiverClan if not for their untimely death. And to clarify, I personally hate Frecklewish, Oakstar, Ravenwing, Appledusk, etc, because of their treatment of Mapleshade and her kits. This is not me justifying their actions in the least. But just discussing why they possibly ended up in StarClan or not.
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Post by 🔥Firestar🔥 on Oct 13, 2022 10:09:57 GMT -5
I'm neutral, I never really liked Mapleshade's vengeance. In my opinion her being in the Dark Forest is extremely dumb if cats like Appledusk and Russetfur are in StarClan. I'm not sure, maybe Frecklewish did some horrible sin before the book started but I believe nothing in the book (reasonably) warrants her placement She did jackshit while Maple and her kittens were flailing in the river, didn't even try to get the attention of the RiverClan patrol. Meanwhile Fireheart and Greystripe, two warriors WAY younger than her, dived into a whole flash flood and saved two RiverClan kits. Both situations are completely different. Those kits were already holding out into some debris and twigs and were not getting swept completely underwater with nothing to save them. They weren't into the deepest part of the torrent, but near Sunningrocks and into a more shallow area. Graystripe was mentioned to be splashing out of the shallows, and Fireheart was said to be wading and paddling. Not only that, but it wasnt heavily raining during a storm when Fireheart and Graystripe saved those kits, the latter who was holding on into a mat Fireheart give him so he didin't drown. And finally, those were three small kits helped by two cats who didin't have any problem on hauling them of the water. In comparision, Mapleshade and her kits were crossing the river during a storm/downpour, wich was already worsened due to the fact that a wave big enough to submerge even Mapleshade underwater were crashing over her head, wich Fireheart didin't have to face. Fireheart's flood wasn't as strong as the one Mapleshade carried her kits on. Mapleshade's kits were constantly swept underwater and they had nothing to hold on into. It's not that she didin't care about the kits. Its that there was barely any way to actually save them herself. Did you expect Frecklewish to throw herself in the water? Considering there was a whole storm, strong rain, and a flooded river, she would have just been throwing herself to her death. And not only that, but Frecklewish cant be expected to jump into a flash flood, try to dive after 3 kits that were probably very separated by now in the flood, while having to deal with waves crashing above her head, Mapleshade probably putting her attention on her due to their tense encounter in the camp, wasting precious time, and Frecklewish to try and save three kits at the same time, when Mapleshade already struggled carrying 1 in her mouth. All of those distractions would probably already have made it too late for them to be saved, paired with the fact that it was heavily raining and the eyes probably would have been kind of blurry. And if she didin't get to save them, she would have just been another cat that the RiverClan patrol had to save before putting their attention on the kits. A flash flood is way too loud for her to call out that there are kits in the river, and even more difficult if she's trying to swim in the water. Who knows how the RC patrol would have reacted should they have seen 2 TC cats near their land, it would take double the time to focus on the kits and would probably already have gotten lost/drowned even further than in the books. The flash flood is way too loud for Frecklewish to try and get the attention of the RiverClan cats, and considering both Clans were tense at the time, seeing some cat shouting by the other side of the shore might have invited agression and made it harder for both Clans to work together. Not only that, but Frecklewish's brother had died not long ago due to being thrown in a swollen river. That's traumatizing. She shouldn't be expected to automatically get over that fear to save those three kits in the flood. Also, it's not that "Frecklewish didin't give jackshit about the kits". As further into the book its mentioned that because she saw a RiverClan patrol had already saved them, and mentioned that they were okay. Not only that, but she downright admits that she didin't mean for them to die: She never brings back up the kits again, and only attacks Mapleshade when she guilts her into thinking that she enjoyed watching the kits die. The wording here is interesting: This indicates that the one she wishes was dead was Mapleshade, NOT the kits. Even further hinting when she mentions that she's angry at Mapleshade for how she used her brother's name, and not for having the kittens. Whitout using the Warriors website as a reference, we can clearly see that Frecklewish feels clear remorse for the kits dying, only leaving when she saw a RiverClan patrol was already saving them. She cared about them. Only calling them "half-clan creatures" in a moment of blind rage- later on when she spots Mapleshade, she gives her a chance to leave and dosen't attack her like in camp. Anything added after like she saw Larchkit struggle, enjoyed watching them get swept by the current, etc were completely made up to justify her going to the dark forest.
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Post by 🔥Firestar🔥 on Oct 13, 2022 10:12:45 GMT -5
My opinion on Frecklewish is neutral. I think she's an interesting morally gray character, but i wouldn't put her in my "like" list. Despite that, she shouldn't have been sent to the Dark Forest imo.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Oct 13, 2022 10:45:23 GMT -5
She did jackshit while Maple and her kittens were flailing in the river, didn't even try to get the attention of the RiverClan patrol. Meanwhile Fireheart and Greystripe, two warriors WAY younger than her, dived into a whole flash flood and saved two RiverClan kits. Both situations are completely different. Those kits were already holding out into some debris and twigs and were not getting swept completely underwater with nothing to save them. They weren't into the deepest part of the torrent, but near Sunningrocks and into a more shallow area. Graystripe was mentioned to be splashing out of the shallows, and Fireheart was said to be wading and paddling. Not only that, but it wasnt heavily raining during a storm when Fireheart and Graystripe saved those kits, the latter who was holding on into a mat Fireheart give him so he didin't drown. And finally, those were three small kits helped by two cats who didin't have any problem on hauling them of the water.
In comparision, Mapleshade and her kits were crossing the river during a storm/downpour, wich was already worsened due to the fact that a wave big enough to submerge even Mapleshade underwater were crashing over her head, wich Fireheart didin't have to face. Fireheart's flood wasn't as strong as the one Mapleshade carried her kits on. Mapleshade's kits were constantly swept underwater and they had nothing to hold on into.
It's not that she didin't care about the kits. Its that there was barely any way to actually save them herself. Did you expect Frecklewish to throw herself in the water? Considering there was a whole storm, strong rain, and a flooded river, she would have just been throwing herself to her death. And not only that, but Frecklewish cant be expected to jump into a flash flood, try to dive after 3 kits that were probably very separated by now in the flood, while having to deal with waves crashing above her head, Mapleshade probably putting her attention on her due to their tense encounter in the camp, wasting precious time, and Frecklewish to try and save three kits at the same time, when Mapleshade already struggled carrying 1 in her mouth. All of those distractions would probably already have made it too late for them to be saved, paired with the fact that it was heavily raining and the eyes probably would have been kind of blurry.
And if she didin't get to save them, she would have just been another cat that the RiverClan patrol had to save before putting their attention on the kits. A flash flood is way too loud for her to call out that there are kits in the river, and even more difficult if she's trying to swim in the water. Who knows how the RC patrol would have reacted should they have seen 2 TC cats near their land, it would take double the time to focus on the kits and would probably already have gotten lost/drowned even further than in the books.
The flash flood is way too loud for Frecklewish to try and get the attention of the RiverClan cats, and considering both Clans were tense at the time, seeing some cat shouting by the other side of the shore might have invited agression and made it harder for both Clans to work together.
Not only that, but Frecklewish's brother had died not long ago due to being thrown in a swollen river. That's traumatizing. She shouldn't be expected to automatically get over that fear to save those three kits in the flood.
Also, it's not that "Frecklewish didin't give jackshit about the kits". As further into the book its mentioned that because she saw a RiverClan patrol had already saved them, and mentioned that they were okay. Not only that, but she downright admits that she didin't mean for them to die:
She never brings back up the kits again, and only attacks Mapleshade when she guilts her into thinking that she enjoyed watching the kits die. The wording here is interesting:
This indicates that the one she wishes was dead was Mapleshade, NOT the kits. Even further hinting when she mentions that she's angry at Mapleshade for how she used her brother's name, and not for having the kittens.
Whitout using the Warriors website as a reference, we can clearly see that Frecklewish feels clear remorse for the kits dying, only leaving when she saw a RiverClan patrol was already saving them. She cared about them. Only calling them "half-clan creatures" in a moment of blind rage- later on when she spots Mapleshade, she gives her a chance to leave and dosen't attack her like in camp. Anything added after like she saw Larchkit struggle, enjoyed watching them get swept by the current, etc were completely made up to justify her going to the dark forest. Whereas I agree that the situations are different, I think honeynectar's point still stands. Frecklewish still didn't do what is considered the morally right thing in the situation she was in. It's the intent that matters. and actions speak louder than words. It's not the idea that she wouldn't be able to help, it's the fact that she didn't even try. Nor is there any evidence, even in the narrative, to prove that she did. Even when Mapleshade does confront her about it later, just because she didn't mean for the kits to die, doesn't change that she left them in a highly dangerous and vulnerable situation. She only displayed guilt after finding out they died, not while they were in danger. If she was truly sorry for what happened to those kits she shouldn't have been one of the cats most vocal about having them exiled. Attacking Mapleshade in front of them, and calling them "things". While also later stalking after Mapleshade to "make sure they left" and leaving them to their fate. What she did is the equivalent of seeing someone drown and not alerting others for help, or even attempting to help yourself. Even though Appledusk didn't jump into the river to save Mapleshade, he used a branch. What was stopping Frecklewish from doing the same, or even trying to signal to the cats on the other side of the river, especially when she was aware of the patrol, according to Nettlepaw. No where was it ever said that she saw the patrol helping them already, just that she was aware they were on the far shore. Frecklewish was the one that told Nettlepaw what happened. Meaning she saw enough to know those kits were in distress, all of them were drowning, and even at one point Mapleshade's head slammed against the bottom of the riverbank. There is no reason for Frecklewish not to show any type of concern here. Malicious? Probably not. Unsympathetic? Obvious. But her indifference shows enough about her character and morals in those scenes. It's arguable that she has trauma over losing her brother, but a fear of water is another thing and mostly headcanon. And again, she could still have helped without even setting foot in that river, like Appledusk did. There's plenty of opportunity to show that she had sympathy here over indifference toward the wellbeing of those kits. In fact it's so simple how they could have written this out and STILL stay within the 10 chapters of the novella's limits. And imo, her wanting Mapleshade dead and not the kits really doesn't do her any favors either, wanting someone dead over them telling a lie isn't justifiable, nor does it excuse her other actions prior.
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Post by honeynectar on Oct 13, 2022 15:58:11 GMT -5
She did jackshit while Maple and her kittens were flailing in the river, didn't even try to get the attention of the RiverClan patrol. Meanwhile Fireheart and Greystripe, two warriors WAY younger than her, dived into a whole flash flood and saved two RiverClan kits. Okay, sure, but why is Russetfur and her patrol still in StarClan, she watched Berrykit stuck in the fox-trap like entertainment. He was a ThunderClan cat by then and eitherway if your going to say he's not, Mapleshade's kits were exiled with her, they weren't any clan Probably because unlike Frecklewish, they lived a long life and redeemed themselves in the process? Frecklewish got the short end of the stick. Unlike Oakstar and Appledusk, she wasn't able to do some heroic or redeemable thing to keep them out of cat hell.
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Post by cable on Oct 13, 2022 17:43:24 GMT -5
Both situations are completely different. Those kits were already holding out into some debris and twigs and were not getting swept completely underwater with nothing to save them. They weren't into the deepest part of the torrent, but near Sunningrocks and into a more shallow area. Graystripe was mentioned to be splashing out of the shallows, and Fireheart was said to be wading and paddling. Not only that, but it wasnt heavily raining during a storm when Fireheart and Graystripe saved those kits, the latter who was holding on into a mat Fireheart give him so he didin't drown. And finally, those were three small kits helped by two cats who didin't have any problem on hauling them of the water.
In comparision, Mapleshade and her kits were crossing the river during a storm/downpour, wich was already worsened due to the fact that a wave big enough to submerge even Mapleshade underwater were crashing over her head, wich Fireheart didin't have to face. Fireheart's flood wasn't as strong as the one Mapleshade carried her kits on. Mapleshade's kits were constantly swept underwater and they had nothing to hold on into.
It's not that she didin't care about the kits. Its that there was barely any way to actually save them herself. Did you expect Frecklewish to throw herself in the water? Considering there was a whole storm, strong rain, and a flooded river, she would have just been throwing herself to her death. And not only that, but Frecklewish cant be expected to jump into a flash flood, try to dive after 3 kits that were probably very separated by now in the flood, while having to deal with waves crashing above her head, Mapleshade probably putting her attention on her due to their tense encounter in the camp, wasting precious time, and Frecklewish to try and save three kits at the same time, when Mapleshade already struggled carrying 1 in her mouth. All of those distractions would probably already have made it too late for them to be saved, paired with the fact that it was heavily raining and the eyes probably would have been kind of blurry.
And if she didin't get to save them, she would have just been another cat that the RiverClan patrol had to save before putting their attention on the kits. A flash flood is way too loud for her to call out that there are kits in the river, and even more difficult if she's trying to swim in the water. Who knows how the RC patrol would have reacted should they have seen 2 TC cats near their land, it would take double the time to focus on the kits and would probably already have gotten lost/drowned even further than in the books.
The flash flood is way too loud for Frecklewish to try and get the attention of the RiverClan cats, and considering both Clans were tense at the time, seeing some cat shouting by the other side of the shore might have invited agression and made it harder for both Clans to work together.
Not only that, but Frecklewish's brother had died not long ago due to being thrown in a swollen river. That's traumatizing. She shouldn't be expected to automatically get over that fear to save those three kits in the flood.
Also, it's not that "Frecklewish didin't give jackshit about the kits". As further into the book its mentioned that because she saw a RiverClan patrol had already saved them, and mentioned that they were okay. Not only that, but she downright admits that she didin't mean for them to die:
She never brings back up the kits again, and only attacks Mapleshade when she guilts her into thinking that she enjoyed watching the kits die. The wording here is interesting:
This indicates that the one she wishes was dead was Mapleshade, NOT the kits. Even further hinting when she mentions that she's angry at Mapleshade for how she used her brother's name, and not for having the kittens.
Whitout using the Warriors website as a reference, we can clearly see that Frecklewish feels clear remorse for the kits dying, only leaving when she saw a RiverClan patrol was already saving them. She cared about them. Only calling them "half-clan creatures" in a moment of blind rage- later on when she spots Mapleshade, she gives her a chance to leave and dosen't attack her like in camp. Anything added after like she saw Larchkit struggle, enjoyed watching them get swept by the current, etc were completely made up to justify her going to the dark forest. Whereas I agree that the situations are different, I think honeynectar's point still stands. Frecklewish still didn't do what is considered the morally right thing in the situation she was in. It's the intent that matters. and actions speak louder than words.
It's not the idea that she wouldn't be able to help, it's the fact that she didn't even try. Nor is there any evidence, even in the narrative, to prove that she did. Even when Mapleshade does confront her about it later, just because she didn't mean for the kits to die, doesn't change that she left them in a highly dangerous and vulnerable situation. She only displayed guilt after finding out they died, not while they were in danger.
If she was truly sorry for what happened to those kits she shouldn't have been one of the cats most vocal about having them exiled. Attacking Mapleshade in front of them, and calling them "things". While also later stalking after Mapleshade to "make sure they left" and leaving them to their fate. What she did is the equivalent of seeing someone drown and not alerting others for help, or even attempting to help yourself.
Even though Appledusk didn't jump into the river to save Mapleshade, he used a branch. What was stopping Frecklewish from doing the same, or even trying to signal to the cats on the other side of the river, especially when she was aware of the patrol, according to Nettlepaw. No where was it ever said that she saw the patrol helping them already, just that she was aware they were on the far shore.
Frecklewish was the one that told Nettlepaw what happened. Meaning she saw enough to know those kits were in distress, all of them were drowning, and even at one point Mapleshade's head slammed against the bottom of the riverbank. There is no reason for Frecklewish not to show any type of concern here. Malicious? Probably not. Unsympathetic? Obvious. But her indifference shows enough about her character and morals in those scenes.
It's arguable that she has trauma over losing her brother, but a fear of water is another thing and mostly headcanon. And again, she could still have helped without even setting foot in that river, like Appledusk did. There's plenty of opportunity to show that she had sympathy here over indifference toward the wellbeing of those kits.
In fact it's so simple how they could have written this out and STILL stay within the 10 chapters of the novella's limits. And imo, her wanting Mapleshade dead and not the kits really doesn't do her any favors either, wanting someone dead over them telling a lie isn't justifiable, nor does it excuse her other actions prior. i think my main issue is that she didnt even like. stick around to see how it turned out and to see if the kits lived. i could not even imagine seeing children i had helped raise for months literally drowning and at the absolute very least not staying to make sure they lived. its hard to see her remorse as running particularly deep when she didnt even care enough to make sure they were okay and just assumed the drowning children would be fine because there was a patrol nearby that hadnt even noticed them yet. also where did the evidence for the flood being too loud to call out come from? mapleshade was half-concussed and in the water and she could still hear appledusk calling out to her. even then, she like… what, just assumed it was too loud and didnt try? (if she had tried that would be the most obvious and immediate counter to mapleshades accusations). like, i dont think many consider her genuinely malicious, but she was dangerously careless.
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Post by Rainfire on Oct 13, 2022 17:44:41 GMT -5
While there are some interesting things about her, I don't feel strongly for her one way or the other.
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