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Post by Aqua on Mar 24, 2022 8:10:12 GMT -5
Did Leafpool deserve her medicine cat position back after all the lies she told?
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Post by Twilight Sparkle on Mar 24, 2022 8:37:45 GMT -5
Yes. Leafpool is clearly a gifted medicine cat, and it would be a waste to not use her knowledge and skills. She isn't going to run away with Crowfeather or any other cat again, and she has already proven herself a capable and rational medicine cat, even when her kits were growing up.
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Post by cygna on Mar 24, 2022 9:00:21 GMT -5
No. I don’t think she officially deserved to be a medicine cat again but I do think she should have continued helping out in the medicine den like Brightheart, just more frequently.
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Post by 🌌dapple🌙 (formerly freckle) on Mar 24, 2022 12:39:57 GMT -5
I think she did. Had she not a lot of her talent would have went to waste. And there's no use in her unofficially having the title (doing the work of one but not having the name of one) it just feels a bit odd to do. If she knows the most and a cat gets injured but she's out doing a hunting patrol, what then?
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Post by ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁 on Mar 24, 2022 13:25:44 GMT -5
I voted no, but part of me wants to say yes because of the shit she got from Mothflight in her trial. I don't hate Leafpool as much as I used to, but her behavior after her demotion came off as "well, I'm no longer a medicine cat, time to be the mom I was never supposed to be!" That irked me because it didn't necessarily mean she was learning from her punishment to me personally.
I'm sure I'm going to get crap because Squirrelflight wasn't punished in theory, but literally there was no way to punish her without going to either extreme of seeming too light or too harsh. After all, Squirrelflight was more an accomplice in the lie, not in the overall act of breaking the codes and lying about it.
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Mar 24, 2022 14:07:50 GMT -5
yes. the only thing i don't agree with is her stepping back in as the main medicine cat. if anything, jayfeather should have stayed the main medicine cat, and leafpool could just come back as the secondary one, following his lead and instruction.
she stepped down from the position herself originally. she knew how best to punish and hurt herself, and she also did this to not burdden or shame her father even further. imagine how much pain firestar would have been in if he had to publically punish one of his own daughters in such an extreme way. what if he pulled a onestar and buckled under the pressure from his clan and punished her too harshly? he'd 100% regret it if he did that. with leafpool punishing herself, she took that burden off his shoulders and she did what had to be done from then on; trying to be a warrior, etc. sure, she didn't get proper training to truly help out, but she still stuck to her principals and didn't buckle until jayfeather needed her back (i think that happened off screen so i dont think we know the specifics of what was said to let her back in??)
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Post by BҽɾɾყႦʅσσɱ on Mar 24, 2022 14:55:02 GMT -5
She absolutely did.
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Post by Keyfall on Mar 24, 2022 16:31:46 GMT -5
Absolutely! She was a talented medicine cat, it would have been a waste of talent to keep her as a warrior.
It's also important to remember that all of her actions were spurred on by Starclan. Feathertail have her relationship with Crowfeather her blessing, and Yellowfang famously pushed Squirrelflight to take in the kits as her own. Leafpool's a medicine cat, she *supposed* to listen to Starclan. So it would be very strange to punish her.
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Post by Ṣanɗypaw™ on Mar 24, 2022 17:08:06 GMT -5
Yes, but I wish that Jayfeather had stayed the main medicine cat.
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Post by *Ottersplash* on Mar 24, 2022 20:23:09 GMT -5
Yes. It's literally a waste to put her anywhere else. She needed to be there to provide some sort of bedside manner too, and Alderheart probably would have struggled without her
Also, reminder: She helped train Puddleshine
She is important as a medicine cat.
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Post by 𝔯𝔞𝔟𝔟𝔦𝔱𝔣𝔯𝔬𝔰𝔱 on Mar 25, 2022 17:12:43 GMT -5
I think she did, but I agree with ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ that she should've come back as a secondary medicine cat and let Jayfeather take the lead in the medicine den moving forward. I think, ultimately, the decision of whether she should've been allowed to return as a medicine cat should've been on Firestar and Jayfeather to decide - and ultimately, it seems that both of them decided she should be a medicine cat again, and I respect that decision. And nobody actually told her that she couldn't be a medicine cat anymore - that was all her own decision after the truth was revealed, as a way of punishing herself. As much harm and trouble has her decision to keep the kits a secret caused, she did it with the right intentions, and with the encouragement of StarClan. I think that's the important part to remember - she didn't just decide, "hey, I'm gonna keep these kits a secret, and give them to my sister to raise instead". It was StarClan (specifically, Yellowfang) who encouraged her to do this. Those kits that she gave birth to became incredibly important for the future of all the Clans, and StarClan knew this - they knew she was pregnant even at the end of TNP and encouraged her and told her that they would be with her. They wouldn't have acted this way if they were then gonna go on to say "no, you can't be a medicine cat anymore".
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Post by ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁 on Mar 26, 2022 7:32:28 GMT -5
Yes. It's literally a waste to put her anywhere else. She needed to be there to provide some sort of bedside manner too, and Alderheart probably would have struggled without her Also, reminder: She helped train Puddleshine She is important as a medicine cat. I feel like crediting her training Puddleshine is a bit much. She would have done that even if she never stepped down. ThunderClan just had more medicine cats and it made sense to throw one in ShadowClan. She should have just stayed there imho.
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Post by crowspirit on Mar 26, 2022 8:36:25 GMT -5
Leafpool was a trained and capable medicine cat. She clearly sucked as a warrior, so should all of her abilities simply go to waste because she had kits? No.
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Post by kells on Mar 26, 2022 9:01:33 GMT -5
Idk, she screwed up so much, and correct me if I'm wrong, her response to it was mainly self-pity.
I mean she DID abandon her Clan in a new habitat immediately after a war with WindClan... if that isn't a middle finger to the place that raised her, I don't know what is. Might I add she was also an adult when she pulled this crap? StarClan may have been involved, but was it so hard to wait at least a little bit before running off the moment she had the chance?
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Post by *Ottersplash* on Mar 26, 2022 9:22:10 GMT -5
Yes. It's literally a waste to put her anywhere else. She needed to be there to provide some sort of bedside manner too, and Alderheart probably would have struggled without her Also, reminder: She helped train Puddleshine She is important as a medicine cat. I feel like crediting her training Puddleshine is a bit much. She would have done that even if she never stepped down. ThunderClan just had more medicine cats and it made sense to throw one in ShadowClan. She should have just stayed there imho. She literally trained him. I don’t know how that’s crediting her too much because that’s literally what she did
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Post by Fireleap on Mar 26, 2022 10:40:36 GMT -5
Yeah, she was a very capable medicine cat.
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Post by ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁 on Mar 26, 2022 10:49:14 GMT -5
I feel like crediting her training Puddleshine is a bit much. She would have done that even if she never stepped down. ThunderClan just had more medicine cats and it made sense to throw one in ShadowClan. She should have just stayed there imho. She literally trained him. I don’t know how that’s crediting her too much because that’s literally what she did Because your post implies it's a great and magnificent thing when really it made the most sense for a Clan with three medicine cats to train one in Shadow. It isn't amazing, she wasn't chosen because she's such a great medicine cat. If anything, Jayfeather excels further than she does. I think people pity Leafpool too much when it comes to her mistakes and punishment, because her punishment never really stuck.
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Post by *Ottersplash* on Mar 26, 2022 11:14:47 GMT -5
She literally trained him. I don’t know how that’s crediting her too much because that’s literally what she did Because your post implies it's a great and magnificent thing when really it made the most sense for a Clan with three medicine cats to train one in Shadow. It isn't amazing, she wasn't chosen because she's such a great medicine cat. If anything, Jayfeather excels further than she does. I think people pity Leafpool too much when it comes to her mistakes and punishment, because her punishment never really stuck. I’m going to end this conversation here as I’m not interested in discussing my favorite character with someone who vehemently dislikes her I think she’s a wonderful cat and an amazing medicine cat, and my position will not change
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Post by rookheart on Mar 28, 2022 15:19:33 GMT -5
Absolutely. She was traumatized, and the fact she hid her kits and couldn't even persue a relationship was punishment enough. If anyone should have been punished, it was Crowfeather. And he didn't even know about the three. They've all suffered enough, and their reputations were ruined. ThunderClan was effectively disadvantaging itself for no reason besides setting an example even though one was already set.
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Post by Saint Ambrosef on Mar 29, 2022 11:16:42 GMT -5
leafpool suffered the punishment for her code breaking every day by not having a mother-child relationship with any of her kits. even if she trusted squilf and bramble to be good adopted parents, you know it probably killed her inside. remember, she wanted to raise her kits, to be their mother. and then when the three finally DID find out the truth, they hated her. hollyleaf wanted her to die for it. they eventually made up with her (in their own individual ways), but that doesn't erase the years of pain she went through over it.
so imo, the suggestion that she needed to give up her position for good as "punishment" for her codebreaking ignores that she was already suffering from her choice. nobody benefits from her vacating the post. jayfeather didnt feel experienced enough to be the sole medicine cat, she was a really crummy warrior, and all it did was deprive ThunderClan of a perfectly functional and competent medicine cat that they really needed at times. the only purpose it served was to punish Leafpool, but it was needlessly redundant due to her own personal hurt, so there was really nothing to be gained.
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