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Post by cloudywatcher567 on Mar 22, 2022 15:31:20 GMT -5
Do you think Leafpool was right to take on Crowfeather as a mate?
Why do you think that?
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Mar 22, 2022 15:46:17 GMT -5
i love leafpool and leaf x crow, but i can put my bias aside to admit they were both selfish. i can understand them, but in the end, i treat them the same as other forbidden couples: they were selfish and stupid.
leafpool was insecure about her position and left thinking that thunderclan would be fine without her (her reason being: cinderpelt was still young, they also had brightheart and sandstorm who had basic healing knowledge and could help out until cinderpelt got another apprentice; she had no clue cinderpelt would be dying soon after she left).
crowfeather was deep in his depression and his own insecurities. his original plan was to just live a good enough windclan warrior life and then die and be reunited with feathertail in the afterlife. falling for leafpool was out of left field for him and he desperately clung to the feelings she made him feel. he felt complete again and had new purpose thanks to leafpool. he was feeling disillusioned. he didnt feel like he still belonged in windclan; he had no motivation or drive to do his best as a warrior (like i said, in his original plan, he just wanted to be an ordinary warrior and just wait for death to come whenever it showed itself so he could be with feathertail again). as a result, he felt so isolated, and jumped at the chance to be happy again, which is why he adamently insisted they run away and leave clan life behind because to him, clan way of life has done nothing but hinder and hurt him.
for leafpool, she had her medicine cat vows, and she broke them. so in that way, it was wrong for her to do. even though in her mind, she thought thunderclan would be fine without her, she didnt know 100% that was true. if cinderpelt told her that starclan said she'll die soon, i bet u leafpool wouldnt have left...but cinderpelt wanted leafpool to make that choice on her own, and in the end she was right: leafpool knew what was right and where she belonged and she came back and stayed on her own accord; in the end, it was she who broke it off with crowfeather and insist they move on...which was going to be too difficult for crowfeather since he felt so isolated back home. with him having tried to abandon the clan life, what would he have back home then? his mother? sure, but now everyone would distrust him and think badly of him from then on. the mind set that led him to be bitter and use nightcloud for his reputation.
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Bisexual
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BҽɾɾყႦʅσσɱ
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Post by BҽɾɾყႦʅσσɱ on Mar 22, 2022 16:08:38 GMT -5
Nope. Then again I'm biased against LeafCrow and would have preferred them with other cats or no mates at all.
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Post by *Ottersplash* on Mar 22, 2022 19:00:30 GMT -5
The mistake she made was coming back to the clans. I think she should have been happy off with Crowfeather
But I hate the medicine cat AND cross clan romance rules.
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Transgender
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Post by 🌌dapple🌙 (formerly freckle) on Mar 22, 2022 19:17:31 GMT -5
I'll always have to say no to this question. I do think the rules apply to them as they would Blue and Oak, and Yellow and Ragged and Gray and Silver, etc.
But the circumstances were way different for them. ThunderClan's medicine den was regularly packed with all the cats that had medical knowledge and Crowfeather had nobody to look forward to when he came home to WindClan.
People so often point out how the medicine cat rule can be fixed by "Just make sure there's more than one medicine cat" and Leafpool had been in a situation where she could have had a mate because there were plenty of others who knew how to help in the medicine den!
I can't lie I had genuinely been happy reading how excited she and Crowfeather were at running away together because it seemed they were both in love with each other and willing to live their lives together and both were just satisfied for once!
But no, Midnight decided "hmmm ima just travel across the OCEAN to let them know that it's their responsibility to help fight my kind." it will always infuriate me to no end that Leafpool and Crowfeather were denied a happy ending. Not because of how they were denied immediately at first but that still annoys me- but since in the end their one affair would be brought up again and again and again for GENERATIONS. Literal GENERATIONS to this DAY.
Even while Leafpool is dead and gone, her legacy is seem as promiscuous and Crowfeather is still untrusted, even after he's broken up with his third wife!!
Running away would have been better considering the longterm consequences tbh. I prefer AUs where they can leave since it seems better in almost every way and spares so much unnecessary familial drama.
It could have been a cool new angle to see two outside clan cats together, I would have liked a novella or super edition to see what their new lives would be like together. It'd almost give me like- reverse Graystripe and Millie Manga vibes where they're goal is to stay away from the clans as they bond instead of trying to return. It just could have been interesting to me, and the strict attachment to "but family" will make my blood boil.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Mar 22, 2022 19:17:52 GMT -5
Pretty much what ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆LeafCrow was a very left-field pairing in general but fit into the plot cause of the prophecy, although arguably there were other options, lol. Still, they were both pretty selfish, and the drama, although entertaining, caused more problems in the long run than it was worth. I do think as of AVoS Leafpool was redeemed very well, and CT made me tolerate Crowfeather more, so at least both of them had time to be written better since.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Mar 22, 2022 19:28:10 GMT -5
I'll always have to say no to this question. I do think the rules apply to them as they would Blue and Oak, and Yellow and Ragged and Gray and Silver, etc.
But the circumstances were way different for them. ThunderClan's medicine den was regularly packed with all the cats that had medical knowledge and Crowfeather had nobody to look forward to when he came home to WindClan.
People so often point out how the medicine cat rule can be fixed by "Just make sure there's more than one medicine cat" and Leafpool had been in a situation where she could have had a mate because there were plenty of others who knew how to help in the medicine den!
I can't lie I had genuinely been happy reading how excited she and Crowfeather were at running away together because it seemed they were both in love with each other and willing to live their lives together and both were just satisfied for once!
But no, Midnight decided "hmmm ima just travel across the OCEAN to let them know that it's their responsibility to help fight my kind." it will always infuriate me to no end that Leafpool and Crowfeather were denied a happy ending. Not because of how they were denied immediately at first but that still annoys me- but since in the end their one affair would be brought up again and again and again for GENERATIONS. Literal GENERATIONS to this DAY.
Even while Leafpool is dead and gone, her legacy is seem as promiscuous and Crowfeather is still untrusted, even after he's broken up with his third wife!!
Running away would have been better considering the longterm consequences tbh. I prefer AUs where they can leave since it seems better in almost every way and spares so much unnecessary familial drama.
It could have been a cool new angle to see two outside clan cats together, I would have liked a novella or super edition to see what their new lives would be like together. It'd almost give me like- reverse Graystripe and Millie Manga vibes where they're goal is to stay away from the clans as they bond instead of trying to return. It just could have been interesting to me, and the strict attachment to "but family" will make my blood boil. I feel like it kinda went beyond just family. Midnight warned them of the attack, but not to put the weight of what was going to happen on them, but to bring the message back to the clans to help them if she could. A pair of cats would probably be able to carry that messege much faster than an incredibly old badger. When they did come back they could have just ran away again, but Leafpool knew deep down that she was needed in ThunderClan and that she and Crowfeather would never work out. Crowfeather would be happy, he already felt isolated in WindClan save for his mother, so having Leafpool would be enough. But Leafpool still had a deep connection to her sister, her family, her clan. And she took an oath as a medicine cat. Cinderpelt knew she was going to die regardless of whether Leafpool left or stayed, but she left that choice up to Leafpool ultimately. But without an actual medicine cat, ThunderClan would have suffered. The badger attack was gruesome, more lives would have been lost without immediate attention, and it still wouldn't solve the long term issue of no longer having a medicine cat at all. They'd have to wait for a sign from StarClan. The only reason the scandal is still talked about to this day is because it became every cat's business after Hollyleaf revealed it at the gathering. The rumors of them running away didn't really catch fire, but when a cat blatantly exposes an entire family secret in front of every clan at a gathering, of course that'll be talked about for generations. It doesn't help that Leafpool was both Firestar's daughter, and the medicine cat, plus Crowfeather was from WindClan. And on top of that Bramblestar, the ThunderClan deputy, and Squirrelflight, the other daughter of Firestar, weren't the real parents. That is, and will forever be a lot to unpack. And even though this happened back in POT, the gathering scene, Leaf and Crow were a thing before that in TNP, and then OotS was the after results of POT, which is Dovewing and Ivypool's generation. It doesn't really feel as long ago as one would think, it's just that cat generations go by much faster than humans. Would running away have been the better solution? Probably, but I don't think Leafpool would have truly been happy, especially when it was mostly Crowfeather pushing the idea of their relationship in the first place. Leafpool was definitely giving up a lot more than him by running away.
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Post by cygna on Mar 22, 2022 19:47:37 GMT -5
No. But only because she was like... the one medicine cat who WANTED to be a medicine cat. She chose this job knowing she would have to sacrifice having a mate and family so if CrowLeaf becomes endgame in StarClan it would leave me pissed for all the medicine cats who were forced into the position and didn't get to have mates cuz of it.
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Post by *Ottersplash* on Mar 22, 2022 20:47:11 GMT -5
No. But only because she was like... the one medicine cat who WANTED to be a medicine cat. She chose this job knowing she would have to sacrifice having a mate and family so if CrowLeaf becomes endgame in StarClan it would leave me pissed for all the medicine cats who were forced into the position and didn't get to have mates cuz of it. CrowLeaf is endgame according to ALitM
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Cloudstorm
Don’t let it kill you. Even when it hurts like hell.
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Post by Cloudstorm on Mar 22, 2022 20:48:21 GMT -5
As much as I adore LeafxCrow. It was very much foolish and selfish and out of left field. Albeit much less so for Crowfeather, since he has almost nothing to lose from leaving his clan. It’s illustrated as early as his kithood in Ravenpaw’s Manga that he feels like an outsider and loner amongst his own Clanmates, and that no one notices him. He practically invites death after Feathertail’s demise and had practically deemed his life meaningless without her. So he has a lot more to gain then lose.
Leafpool had much more to leave behind that I don’t truly think she’d ever be able to be happy being forever detached from. Her parents, sister, friends, other medicine cats. Plus she deliberately chose the role of medicine cat. She knowingly knew she’d be sacrificing the possibility of taking a mate and kits, and while she probably feel some temporary euphoria from running away with Crowfeather, doubtful it would last long, and her responsibility and commitment to her clan would probably bring her back.
While she’s redeemed herself for her fallacies and owned up to her mistakes in the end, was definitely selfish in the moment. And what I think many people give Leafpool a pass for is how selfish and entitled she acted after discovering she was pregnant, and practically demanded that Starclan find a solution for the dilemma she created, by a choice she made of free will. Suppose we could argue Spottedleaf telling her to follow her heart somehow makes Starclan partly to blame? Fail to see the validity to that statement myself. Telling someone to follow their heart is a pretty relative and generalized statement that doesn’t carry any intent, and can be interpreted in many different ways.
Guess Spottedleaf could have been more direct with her advice. But then would feel more like a command rather than a suggestion. Which Starclan generally(at that time at least) really only gave advice and guidance to help or steer the clans down the right path, without giving explicit instructions to do something a certain way, thus taking away their freedom to make their own decisions and choices(and mistakes).
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Post by Emeraldripple on Mar 22, 2022 21:40:45 GMT -5
I think Leafpool would have wound up regretting it no matter what, so it might as well be for the better that she went back to Thunderclan sooner rather than later. There probably wasn't going to be a way that any option would make her completely happy.
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Post by Twilight Sparkle on Mar 23, 2022 7:16:46 GMT -5
I don't think she was right per say, being a medicine cat and a cat from another Clan and all, but I could understand her wanting to be with Crowfeather and the feelings between them, Crowfeather with his depression and Leafpool with her loneliness.
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Post by Aqua on Mar 23, 2022 11:19:41 GMT -5
I adore Leafpool because she's a lot like me, but I have to put my own bias aside like Briar and say no. Leafpool was the medicine cat and she couldn't sacrifice her position just because she fell in love. She threw a fit and disrespected Cinderpelt and ran off without even telling her clan. If Midnight never returned to warn Leafpool and Crowfeather about the badgers then Leafpool wouldn't have returned and Cinderpelt would have died. Thunderclan would have had no medicine cat. Leafpool had no right to take a mate, and her actions were pretty unforgivable. She made her kits believe in a web of lies and indirectly mentally damaged Hollyleaf and Jayfeather and Lionblaze were so angry at Leafpool that they refused to forgive her. What makes me like Leafpool is that she is a sweet and understanding character and that's why I forgive her for this. She stands up against StarClan and never regretted having her kits. She proved she loved her clan more than Crowfeather multiple times and earned her spot and respect from warriors back. I actually appreciate that Jayfeather never truly forgave Leafpool for abandoning them and lying to them, it shows that he has feelings about this and how realistic the situation is. Screw those people who were mad at him in the past for this. Jayfeather had every single right to be cranky toward his mother for lying and abandoning them to Squirrelflight.
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Post by cygna on Mar 24, 2022 8:58:10 GMT -5
No. But only because she was like... the one medicine cat who WANTED to be a medicine cat. She chose this job knowing she would have to sacrifice having a mate and family so if CrowLeaf becomes endgame in StarClan it would leave me pissed for all the medicine cats who were forced into the position and didn't get to have mates cuz of it. CrowLeaf is endgame according to ALitM Crowfeather didn’t die yet. It implied they were endgame, it didn’t confirm it.
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