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Post by *•.¸♡𝘥𝘢𝘸𝘯𝘳𝘰𝘴𝘦♡¸.•* on Mar 7, 2022 13:30:00 GMT -5
I just- don't like him lmao. I don't have a good reason besides finding his behaviour disgusting. I hate him because I dislike his personality, I guess. Since I haven't read TBC yet, I don't really know if I like him as a villain but I didn't like him as a villain in PoT
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Post by Saint Ambrosef on Mar 7, 2022 13:51:05 GMT -5
he's a caricature of an incel, and it makes for a simultaneously dull and ridiculous villain
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Mar 7, 2022 13:57:57 GMT -5
a pathetic incel shouldn't have been made such an important villain arcs after his original death. it made no sense, and giving importance to such a pathetic character was aggrivating. he didnt deserve such villany after the fact. TBC was wasted because of ashfur being involved. and also the point of how TNP era cats keep stealing the spotlight from the current arcs protags...TBC was just TNP and Po3 part 3 because of bramble, ash, and squirrel importance again. it was stupid. i hate TBC more than OotS because of ashfur's nonsensical importance.
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Post by Moonblazer on Mar 7, 2022 14:03:03 GMT -5
I’m just mad they took so long to bring him back if he was going to be some big bad, and the explanations for how he got so much power were just. Really weak for me. Needless to say, he’s a frightening villain, but at the same time I honestly have no care for him as such and think he wasn’t really needed to be brought back.
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Cloudstorm
Don’t let it kill you. Even when it hurts like hell.
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Post by Cloudstorm on Mar 7, 2022 14:31:19 GMT -5
I don’t Dislike or Hate Ashfur. In fact I find the concept of his character fascinating.
What I don’t like is how his story arc is facilitated and handled in a very contrived manner, that defies and goes against established lore and worldbuilding. There are some subtle hints even early on leaning towards his psychological/Mental decline, and there’s several foreshadowing traumatizing experiences that he’s gone through that could plausibly have pushed him in the direction of his downward trajectory, and his eventual overwhelming obsessive, possessive and controlling behavior over Squirrelflight, If he would of lived.
there’s no guarantee what he would done next, or if he would of continued to begrudge Squirrelflight and keep seeking revenge after revealing her secret at the gathering(which there’s not an absolute guarantee he would of exposed the secret, given he was spooked and shoke up after Jayfeather walked in his dreams right before he got murdered) but there is a high chance he would of went through with it, and possibly after Brambleclaw broke up with Squirrelflight, he’d try to swoop in and get her to love him again, and after a second rejection might of proceeded down his dark path and eventually reach his state of derangement and insanity like in TBC at some point.
but since he was killed we don’t know how that would play out. However, we do know that him holding onto a grudge, and continuing to decline both mentally and psychologically, And harboring enough hatred to warp The Dark Forest while residing in allegorical heaven is entirely illogical, and goes against the worlds rules.
1. The Trial system. is a deliberate inclusion to explain Starclan’s faulty judgement to allow Ashfur entry as being wrong. Even though it’s been confirmed they don’t choose who enters or not. 2. We know cats go through some type of spiritual cleansing, purifying them of strife, jealous, envy and other worldly impurities before entry. And that the cats are restored to the point in their lives where they were happiest. And are healed of whatever ailments they had in life, whether mental, psychological, emotional, physical etc(unless they request otherwise like in Crookedstar’s case).
3. Starclan cat spirits are only able to possess another individuals living body if they immediately jump from their body to another’s upon death before transcending to Starclan, and once they’ve entered Starclan it’s not possible anymore(it’s been confirmed multiple times in regards to Cinderpelt possessing Cinderheart by Cinderpelt’s spirit jumping into cinderkit instantly after dying).
And pondering about Ashfur just sitting up in Starclan, progressively declining in his mental state, festering with hatred and anguish, and just becoming more unhinged, defeats the purpose of Starclan/heaven.
I mean, if all the anguish, misery, suffering, pain, rivalries and other pestilence and iniquities of the living world followed you into the afterlife………. Why would anyone want to go?. It’s objective is to be a peaceable and serene place, where your supposed to be relinquished of all the problems and burdens of the living world.
If Starclan truly operated in the manner insinuated with TBC. It would be as much of a contemptuous and distempered, and despondent mess like The Dark Forest.
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Post by Emeraldripple on Mar 7, 2022 16:03:46 GMT -5
It's complicated for me, because as much as I disliked the narrative justification for why he originally got into Starclan, I feel like they ultimately only resurrected him as this major player villain because of that fan backlash. And when fan backlash starts being influential enough to dictate canon, that more often than not doesn't end well.
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Mar 7, 2022 16:55:06 GMT -5
It's complicated for me, because as much as I disliked the narrative justification for why he originally got into Starclan, I feel like they ultimately only resurrected him as this major player villain because of that fan backlash. And when fan backlash starts being influential enough to dictate canon, that more often than not doesn't end well. TBC wouldnt have happened if the editing team just told vicky no to putting him in starclan. or better yet, just have ashfur come back in the last hope battle and have squirrelfligth kill his spirit then. problem solved and no arc is wasted on his pathetic butt ever again. but no. they gave in to fan pressure and TBC is garbage imo because of his invovlement.
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Asexual
#07B04C
star_black.png
Name Colour
Ṣanɗypaw™
The Shiny User
🎵Guess that's just the way it goes, easy come, easy go🎵
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Post by Ṣanɗypaw™ on Mar 7, 2022 18:05:55 GMT -5
Because he's a creep and incel, simple as.
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Post by *Ottersplash* on Mar 7, 2022 20:31:01 GMT -5
I don’t Dislike or Hate Ashfur. In fact I find the concept of his character fascinating. What I don’t like is how his story arc is facilitated and handled in a very contrived manner, that defies and goes against established lore and worldbuilding. There are some subtle hints even early on leaning towards his psychological/Mental decline, and there’s several foreshadowing traumatizing experiences that he’s gone through that could plausibly have pushed him in the direction of his downward trajectory, and his eventual overwhelming obsessive, possessive and controlling behavior over Squirrelflight, If he would of lived. there’s no guarantee what he would done next, or if he would of continued to begrudge Squirrelflight and keep seeking revenge after revealing her secret at the gathering(which there’s not an absolute guarantee he would of exposed the secret, given he was spooked and shoke up after Jayfeather walked in his dreams right before he got murdered) but there is a high chance he would of went through with it, and possibly after Brambleclaw broke up with Squirrelflight, he’d try to swoop in and get her to love him again, and after a second rejection might of proceeded down his dark path and eventually reach his state of derangement and insanity like in TBC at some point. but since he was killed we don’t know how that would play out. However, we do know that him holding onto a grudge, and continuing to decline both mentally and psychologically, And harboring enough hatred to warp The Dark Forest while residing in allegorical heaven is entirely illogical, and goes against the worlds rules. 1. The Trial system. is a deliberate inclusion to explain Starclan’s faulty judgement to allow Ashfur entry as being wrong. Even though it’s been confirmed they don’t choose who enters or not. 2. We know cats go through some type of spiritual cleansing, purifying them of strife, jealous, envy and other worldly impurities before entry. And that the cats are restored to the point in their lives where they were happiest. And are healed of whatever ailments they had in life, whether mental, psychological, emotional, physical etc(unless they request otherwise like in Crookedstar’s case). 3. Starclan cat spirits are only able to possess another individuals living body if they immediately jump from their body to another’s upon death before transcending to Starclan, and once they’ve entered Starclan it’s not possible anymore(it’s been confirmed multiple times in regards to Cinderpelt possessing Cinderheart by Cinderpelt’s spirit jumping into cinderkit instantly after dying). And pondering about Ashfur just sitting up in Starclan, progressively declining in his mental state, festering with hatred and anguish, and just becoming more unhinged, defeats the purpose of Starclan/heaven. I mean, if all the anguish, misery, suffering, pain, rivalries and other pestilence and iniquities of the living world followed you into the afterlife………. Why would anyone want to go?. It’s objective is to be a peaceable and serene place, where your supposed to be relinquished of all the problems and burdens of the living world. If Starclan truly operated in the manner insinuated with TBC. It would be as much of a contemptuous and distempered, and despondent mess like The Dark Forest. Some of this isn't true though. We know Starclan cats don't give up their feelings on relationship...or all of their negative personality traits. Spottedleaf talks about how she wishes Sandstorm would disappear, Yellowfang lies. Cats are shown to be angry and dislike other cats/not take them seriously. Starclan has literally split into clans. Stonefur and Rosetail don't forgive Blackstar...even when they're giving him lives Starclan is heaven in the sense of no hunger or disease and getting to see your loved ones again - not in the cats suddenly becoming unable to hold onto negativities. Starclan has always been intrinsically flawed. It's imperfect cats telling the living cats what they should/should not be doing under the false guise of wisdom.
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Cloudstorm
Don’t let it kill you. Even when it hurts like hell.
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Post by Cloudstorm on Mar 7, 2022 21:18:26 GMT -5
It's complicated for me, because as much as I disliked the narrative justification for why he originally got into Starclan, I feel like they ultimately only resurrected him as this major player villain because of that fan backlash. And when fan backlash starts being influential enough to dictate canon, that more often than not doesn't end well. TBC wouldnt have happened if the editing team just told vicky no to putting him in starclan. or better yet, just have ashfur come back in the last hope battle and have squirrelfligth kill his spirit then. problem solved and no arc is wasted on his pathetic butt ever again. but no. they gave in to fan pressure and TBC is garbage imo because of his invovlement. the editing team influencing what Vicky decides to make canon essentially isn’t any different than being influenced by consumer feedback. Both which are negative imo,. Especially given that if Victoria would of listened to Erica more, the series would be much sappier and namby-pamby, and far less Conflict, adventure and intrigue then what we have. Which would probably kill the enjoyment for quite a lot of people I’d imagine?
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Post by whiteflight on Mar 8, 2022 0:21:19 GMT -5
I'm going to censor any swear words the best that I can since I hate Ashfur hardcore now. Most people already know why Ashfur is so hated. Though for me I started hating him because he was the main villain for TBC, it took him this long to finally shine. Like everyone else I hated how he got into Starclan but later on decided to just forget him since his arc is done and over with but nope the Erin's just had to bring him back and somehow he's so powerful that he can block the connection from Starclan. I didn't read TBC so idk if they ever explained how he got these OP powers, but imo the powers are B*******. I also don't like how they made the story kind of focus on Squrrielflight again because Ashfur became the main villian. I want the new characters to shine but the Erin's always have to bring in Squrrielflight into the spotlight like she's some legendary hero that can fix everything. I would have been fine if they made Ashfur the main villian earlier like maybe after PoT or during OoTS but nope they decided to wait for such a long time just to make this plot. I also really wished that it was Squrrielflight who sacrificed her life to kill Ashfur imo.
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Post by Twilight Sparkle on Mar 8, 2022 6:10:24 GMT -5
As much as I think Ashfur is a cool villain, he really is an obsessive, pathetic creep to Squirrelflight. He IS interesting, but his actions are gross and unjustifiable, too.
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Aroace
#ffa100
Name Colour
𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑
Villain Enjoyer
Taking a break from the forums because my cat died. Will probably be back mid to late October.
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Post by 𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑 on Mar 8, 2022 9:39:55 GMT -5
I despised Ashfur so much that he was my number one most hated character in this series. He is still on the list but Onestar has taken his first place for now. I'm one of the fans who were outraged at him just basically getting away with his crimes and going to StarClan after his death. Even though my rage was never voiced online or towards the writing team at that time since teen me wasn't on any social media platforms back then.
So, while I'm glad that Ashfur finally got held accountable for his actions towards Squirrelflight in TBC by the narrative and thus the writing team, I can also understand how people are angry that he was made into a big villain with more power and relevance than ever in the story since the fire scene. Which took away the chance of other plotlines getting explored instead and former protagonists taking away the spotlight yet again. But at least the pathetic incel is now gone for good.
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#add8e6
Name Colour
*Ravenpaw*
Warrior Fanatic
*reads books in a corner*
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Post by *Ravenpaw* on Mar 8, 2022 20:51:33 GMT -5
He was literally brought back only to please the fans who didn't like that he didn't get punished for his crime, that's the main reason I dislike him. He could have been a good villain for POT instead of TBC.
He's worse than the other warrior cats villains put together. Creep and trash.
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Post by seantheskyhunter on Mar 9, 2022 5:33:12 GMT -5
a pathetic incel shouldn't have been made such an important villain arcs after his original death. it made no sense, and giving importance to such a pathetic character was aggrivating. he didnt deserve such villany after the fact. TBC was wasted because of ashfur being involved. and also the point of how TNP era cats keep stealing the spotlight from the current arcs protags...TBC was just TNP and Po3 part 3 because of bramble, ash, and squirrel importance again. it was stupid. i hate TBC more than OotS because of ashfur's nonsensical importance. Couldn't agree more
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Post by Rio on Mar 9, 2022 7:37:32 GMT -5
He honestly feels like such a cop out antagonist to have in 2021 ... More than 10 years after PoT
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