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Post by Aqua on Mar 7, 2022 11:49:01 GMT -5
Do you think Dovewing leaving her clan was selfish, or was it right? She spent most of her life serving her clan snf trying to help Ivypool, but also lied to her clan by seeing a ShadowClan cat behind their backs.
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Post by ๐ฑ๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐ on Mar 7, 2022 12:22:38 GMT -5
I think it was but cannot fault her for wanting to be happy. Which Dovewing certainly seems to be now in her settled in role as a ShadowClan cat. Even though I'm still very annoyed she did not decide sooner or at least tell anyone about her worries. Still like her though.
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Post by whiteflight on Mar 7, 2022 23:54:12 GMT -5
No I don't think it was selfish. Sure I hate how she was dating Tigerheartstar again but leaving Thunderclan to be with him was the right choice.
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Post by แแชแ แฝ แพf fแชแแ แพms ใโ on Mar 8, 2022 0:59:39 GMT -5
it was 100% selfish. all forbidden relationships r selfish, especially if it ends with one leaving their entire life and family behind for someone they barely know. my leaf x crow bias doesn't excuse it. leaf x crow was selfish too.
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Post by Midnightcacoon loves Sunbeam on Mar 8, 2022 1:06:08 GMT -5
No, I don't think so. She was no longer loyal or happy in ThunderClan, so moving was the best choice forward. ThunderClan has a lot of warriors anyway, and ShadowClan really needed some at the time.
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Post by ๐๐ฅ๐๐๐ค๐ฌ๐จ๐ฅ on Mar 8, 2022 2:11:38 GMT -5
No, it was not. Wanting to live a happy life is not selfish. Acting on it is also not selfish. She wasn't happy in ThunderClan anymore, and she knew she would be happy in ShadowClan with her mate. There is nothing wrong with that. I think switching Clans in general is not selfish, it's just cats trying to find out where they belong.
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Post by Twilight Sparkle on Mar 8, 2022 6:12:30 GMT -5
Agree with ๐๐ฅ๐๐๐ค๐ฌ๐จ๐ฅ. It may be "selfish" because she was disloyal to ThunderClan, but personal happiness is extremely important too, and after everything Dovewing has done for ThunderClan with her powers, I think she deserves some slack.
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Post by Aqua on Mar 8, 2022 7:34:11 GMT -5
No, it was not. Wanting to live a happy life is not selfish. Acting on it is also not selfish. She wasn't happy in ThunderClan anymore, and she knew she would be happy in ShadowClan with her mate. There is nothing wrong with that. I think switching Clans in general is not selfish, it's just cats trying to find out where they belong. I don't think there's anything weing with Dovewing being happy with Tigerheart either. Ppl just don't like her because she breaks the code, and I understand why. She dud pretty unforgivable things when she left the clans while she was pregnant, but other than that that's about the only worst crime she's done. I didn't like her for how she treated her family too. But she did what she thought was best, in the end.
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Bisexual
#ffc5c5
Official Queen of Fan Clans
Name Colour
สแดษชษดสแดแดา ๐
Official ThunderClan & ElmClan Leader
Easing back in
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Post by สแดษชษดสแดแดา ๐ on Mar 8, 2022 11:46:32 GMT -5
ย ย ย ย Yes and no. I think she could have found someone to be happy with if she was not pressured and given time to get over Tiger. Forbidden romances are indeed selfish and it brought out the worst in her. She continued to make selfish choices because she was never punished for her actions. Literally look at how she ignored Tigerheart's protests about leaving despite the fact they're his kits as well.
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Post by ๐ฏ๐๐๐๐ฆ๐ฑ๐ฃ๐ฏ๐ฌ๐ฐ๐ฑ on Mar 8, 2022 18:18:46 GMT -5
Oh man. I need to preface this by saying that I hate Dovewing x Tigerheart. I hate the relationship, I think it shouldn't exist, yadda yadda yadda.
Okay, now that that's out of the way: I think Dovewing leaving ThunderClan to join Tigerstar in ShadowClan was probably about the least selfish thing she could've done. She made the choice considering her kits, her Clan, and her mate.
Her kits: We've seen the reaction Clans have had to half-Clan kits. While it's not always awful, sometimes it is, and would it really be fair to put that on the kits? Also, would it be fair for the kits to have to grow up without ever really even getting to see their father until they become apprentices and go to Gatherings? Like, realistically, both parents living in the same Clan was the best choice Dovewing could've made for her kits.
Her mate: Okay, obviously this one is easy. Tigerstar couldn't leave ShadowClan - after he "died", he got revived in order to lead ShadowClan. So it's not like there was any other option for them to be together without Tigerstar completely abandoning his Clan (and yes, it is 1000 times worse for a leader to abandon their Clan as opposed to a warrior).
Her Clan: This is the one that I feel like I might get some argument about, but hear me out. Would it really be fair for Dovewing's Clanmates to have a cat in their Clan whose heart they knew was in another Clan? Like, yes, she'd probably have her kits with her (unless, of course, they decided to go to ShadowClan instead to be with their father once they became apprentices/warriors). But her mate, the father of her kits, would be across the border. There's no way they'd be able to see each other again after they returned if they chose to stay in their own respective Clans. And how fair would it really be for ThunderClan to have Dovewing there, knowing that she is in love with the leader of a rival Clan, and knowing that her kits are the children of that leader? They'd have a really hard time trusting her again - would they eventually? If we apply past evidence to this situation, then yes, of course they'd eventually learn to trust her again - so long as she earned that trust and didn't keep sneaking out to see Tigerstar.
I think that her relationship with Tigerheart, before the events of Tigerheart's Shadow, was absolutely selfish on both of their parts. They were both betraying their Clans by meeting each other, and that was definitely selfish. But I think her choice to leave ThunderClan to join Tigerstar in ShadowClan was probably the least selfish thing she could've done while staying true to herself and her kits.
And also, I hate the idea that anybody pursuing their own happiness is ever inherently selfish. I think when you pursue your own happiness in a way that directly harms others, that is selfish. But just wanting to be happy and wanting to do things to make yourself feel good is not selfish in and of itself.
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Post by โ
Maplefrostโ
on Mar 9, 2022 22:04:18 GMT -5
I think it's fine if she wants to be happy, but the way she went about it was selfish because she dragged others into her foolery and caused more trouble than it was worth. And also didn't seem to understand the weight of her actions afterward, or learn her lesson. The fact that she bad-mouthed her family after switching clans was kinda the last straw for me, so I just kinda don't have any respect for her.
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