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Post by vectoring34 on Feb 25, 2022 20:42:05 GMT -5
So on what little we've heard of the movie ANY DAY NOW One of the mentions is that the film will be a live-action hybrid with live-action environments and CGI characters roaming in them. This would make it similar in nature to the Jurassic Park films or Walking With documentary series. This also makes it rather different from talking animal movies such as Legend of the Guardians or the 2019 Lion King, wherein there are no live-action shots and the CGI characters simply inhabit a CGI world around them. Happy Feet is an example of a blend between the two, wherein pretty much every shot in the movie is CGI except for the humans.
Which of these methods would you prefer to see and why? And yes, I'm aware a lot of people would prefer it to not be 3-D CGI at all, but I believe it is incredibly unlikely that will be the case just like the movie ever releasing and would prefer this to be more focused on the CGI options being pursued.
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Namara
Briarlight support squad
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Post by Namara on Feb 25, 2022 21:25:57 GMT -5
I don't see what purpose being a live-action hybrid would serve, since humans play a very minor role in the series overall, including the first arc. Most CGI hybrids are done because there are significant human characters (recent examples including Sonic and Detective Pikachu) rather than just the environments. So it would be an odd choice in my opinion... But maybe there's some justification for it behind-the-scenes.
That said, no matter what they do for VFX, it can't possibly be worse than Cats (2019). xD
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Post by vectoring34 on Feb 25, 2022 22:02:22 GMT -5
I don't see what purpose being a live-action hybrid would serve, since humans play a very minor role in the series overall, including the first arc. Most CGI hybrids are done because there are significant human characters (recent examples including Sonic and Detective Pikachu) rather than just the environments. So it would be an odd choice in my opinion... But maybe there's some justification for it behind-the-scenes.
That said, no matter what they do for VFX, it can't possibly be worse than Cats (2019). xD
Well live-action environments can be cheaper and look better depending on your travel budget vs your graphics department. And while it's true most live-action and CG hybrids feature humans, it's not always the case. As I said, the Walking with series has live-action environments and barely any humans. So it wouldn't be without precedent to do so.
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Post by ααͺα α½ αΎf fαͺαα αΎms γβ on Feb 25, 2022 22:52:02 GMT -5
i'd prefer a balance of cartoony and "hyper realistic." i don't want it to be like the "live action" lion king is what im trying to say.
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Post by tema on Feb 25, 2022 23:35:24 GMT -5
I don't see what purpose being a live-action hybrid would serve, since humans play a very minor role in the series overall, including the first arc. Most CGI hybrids are done because there are significant human characters (recent examples including Sonic and Detective Pikachu) rather than just the environments. So it would be an odd choice in my opinion... But maybe there's some justification for it behind-the-scenes.
That said, no matter what they do for VFX, it can't possibly be worse than Cats (2019). xD
I know nothing about film production, so this is a complete spitball, but would using a real location with CGI cats be cheaper?
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Post by ααͺα α½ αΎf fαͺαα αΎms γβ on Feb 26, 2022 0:22:51 GMT -5
I don't see what purpose being a live-action hybrid would serve, since humans play a very minor role in the series overall, including the first arc. Most CGI hybrids are done because there are significant human characters (recent examples including Sonic and Detective Pikachu) rather than just the environments. So it would be an odd choice in my opinion... But maybe there's some justification for it behind-the-scenes.
That said, no matter what they do for VFX, it can't possibly be worse than Cats (2019). xD
I know nothing about film production, so this is a complete spitball, but would using a real location with CGI cats be cheaper? sorry for the long tangent, but i need to get this off my chest about CGI and stuff in the example i gave, from what i could find, the "live action" lion king was entirely CGI, and only 1 shot was real life footage of a setting. thats why i put "live action" in quotes because it may look real, but it's entirely CGI. hyper realism with CGI animation is unnecessary if adapting something cartoonish like an animated disney movie with expressive song numbers and facial expressions. warriors is inbetween, but i would prefer leaning more toward cartoony just so we can have recognizable faces and actual mouth movements that make the characters feel alive like actual cartoony animation (the lion king remake is a good example of what not to do with talking animals. they dont feel alive or like actual characters because their facial movements r restriction to "real life lion anatomy" and real lions cant make exaggerated faces like in the cartoon. its even worse when they were singing lol).
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Post by ivysaur on Feb 26, 2022 2:12:52 GMT -5
What I'm afraid of when it comes to live action environments is that the characters will look out of place and the entire movie will lean into uncanny valley. Think like 1st draft Sonic movie design or those "realistic" versions of cartoons. If they try too hard to make things look like they belong in real life, I feel like they will lose the fantasy battle cat charm of Warriors. Especially because the animation quality wont be anything close to what Disney could make - live action Lion King was soulless but at least it was pretty.
My ideal Warriors movie would be something like Guardians of Ga'hoole, embrace the freedom of CGI and making the animal characters super expressive because they went with a semi-realistic face. Highkey impossible but a girl can dream lmao
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Post by tema on Feb 26, 2022 3:06:51 GMT -5
What I'm afraid of when it comes to live action environments is that the characters will look out of place and the entire movie will lean into uncanny valley. Think like 1st draft Sonic movie design or those "realistic" versions of cartoons. If they try too hard to make things look like they belong in real life, I feel like they will lose the fantasy battle cat charm of Warriors. Especially because the animation quality wont be anything close to what Disney could make - live action Lion King was soulless but at least it was pretty. My ideal Warriors movie would be something like Guardians of Ga'hoole, embrace the freedom of CGI and making the animal characters super expressive because they went with a semi-realistic face. Highkey impossible but a girl can dream lmao Ga'hoole was underrated. I can see a WC movie playing out similarly.
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Post by ααͺα α½ αΎf fαͺαα αΎms γβ on Feb 26, 2022 3:34:19 GMT -5
ivysaur tema100% agree about guardians of ga'hoole. that movie is SO god damn good. yeah, it changed things from the books, but imo, it was the perfect way to adapt the plot in 1 movie, and if they ever did a sequel, they could easily shift things around to fit it back with where the books were going up to that point. so disappointed they never did a sequel (also the score for that film is iconic af too). warriors could totally benefit from the same treatment. changing just enough things to fit into 1 movie while still leave room for a sequel to continue whereever they left off in the books.
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Post by Twilight Sparkle on Feb 26, 2022 5:57:49 GMT -5
While I think I'd like a 2D anime-like style the best, of the two methods I'd choose pure CGI with no real environments or people.
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Post by kells on Feb 26, 2022 7:19:01 GMT -5
I feel like I'm the only person here who'd prefer a more hyper-realistic style, like what we had with 2019 Lion King. The style would also be consistent with the book covers.
Gaurdian of Ga'Hoole was a wonderful movie, but the semi-realism didn't feel off to me after reading the books, maybe because the fantasy aspects were much more extreme. I mean, its a book after owl kingdoms with birds wielding/forginf weapons after all
Adding on to this, I'd personally prefer if it was full cgi so they'd fit in easier with the environment
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Post by ivysaur on Feb 26, 2022 8:47:33 GMT -5
I feel like I'm the only person here who'd prefer a more hyper-realistic style, like what we had with 2019 Lion King. The style would also be consistent with the book covers. Gaurdian of Ga'Hoole was a wonderful movie, but the semi-realism didn't feel off to me after reading the books, maybe because the fantasy aspects were much more extreme. I mean, its a book after owl kingdoms with birds wielding/forginf weapons after all Adding on to this, I'd personally prefer if it was full cgi so they'd fit in easier with the environment How would you imagine emotional scenes in this style? I feel like thats the biggest issue I have with the Lion King and hyper realistic animation. I'm afraid of having the scenes being muted because of the limitations of realistic cat faces. I feel like the best realistic animal I've seen that was still expressive is Aslan from the Narnia movies. If they went with that direction instead, I'd be happier. I think its in the eyes? Aslan had pretty expressive eyes and the eyes of the Lion King characters just looked too real?
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Post by vectoring34 on Feb 26, 2022 10:16:00 GMT -5
I feel like I'm the only person here who'd prefer a more hyper-realistic style, like what we had with 2019 Lion King. The style would also be consistent with the book covers. Gaurdian of Ga'Hoole was a wonderful movie, but the semi-realism didn't feel off to me after reading the books, maybe because the fantasy aspects were much more extreme. I mean, its a book after owl kingdoms with birds wielding/forginf weapons after all Adding on to this, I'd personally prefer if it was full cgi so they'd fit in easier with the environment How would you imagine emotional scenes in this style? I feel like thats the biggest issue I have with the Lion King and hyper realistic animation. I'm afraid of having the scenes being muted because of the limitations of realistic cat faces. I feel like the best realistic animal I've seen that was still expressive is Aslan from the Narnia movies. If they went with that direction instead, I'd be happier. I think its in the eyes? Aslan had pretty expressive eyes and the eyes of the Lion King characters just looked too real? Aslan had to make sacrifices for his facial expressions in so far as looking leonine. His face is lengthened greatly and he looks almost dog-like in certain shots. Dogs are far more expressive animals than cats and something people are used to seeing emote, so it transmits emotion easily. Moreover, his face is sort of flattened and widened to be more human-like What this adds up to is that he feels like he's not JUST a lion. He's different from the other animals. And given he's the Jesus allegory of Narnia, this is rather fitting. Whether that works for Warriors where every cat is supposed to be basically ordinary is up for debate. Certainly though Aslan is not the most extreme I have seen with putting a human face on an animal. The Netflix Jungle Book went pretty far and we get Benedict Cumberbatch's face plastered onto Shere Khan You can see the same techniques applied here; make the face flatter but lengthen the muzzle to be dog-like. It's just taken to an extreme here along with making his eyes huge. Your mileage may vary on how much you want the face changed. This whole thing is a bit of a digression from backgrounds though. Backgrounds don't have much to do with the actual modeling and character design of the characters except in so far as whether they look like they can fit in the world.
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Post by ivysaur on Feb 26, 2022 12:02:54 GMT -5
Oh that Mowgli movie is exactly what I'm afraid the movie might become. All of the animal faces make me so uncomfortable.
Going back to backgrounds, them choosing to go live action is an interesting choice especially because Alibaba is a Chinese company and the interviews mention that is may or may not be shot in China and might incorporate Chinese elements. Do you guys think there might be differences in territory because of this? And also they call it a jungle instead of a forest but I think thats just a translation error.
Also please look at the warriors movie on imdb. What a golden cast, I can't wait to watch it
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Post by vectoring34 on Feb 26, 2022 13:21:47 GMT -5
Oh that Mowgli movie is exactly what I'm afraid the movie might become. All of the animal faces make me so uncomfortable. Going back to backgrounds, them choosing to go live action is an interesting choice especially because Alibaba is a Chinese company and the interviews mention that is may or may not be shot in China and might incorporate Chinese elements. Do you guys think there might be differences in territory because of this? And also they call it a jungle instead of a forest but I think thats just a translation error. Also please look at the warriors movie on imdb. What a golden cast, I can't wait to watch itIt would be interesting if it was a total AU and took place in a Chinese bamboo forest or southern jungle. Itβs not unprecedented, as Legend of the Guardians shoved in random Australian animals like the Tasmanian devil and echidna because they wanted a more Australian vibe to the film. If thatβs the case, then live action background might be cheaper since it could be filmed locally
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Post by kells on Feb 26, 2022 13:23:39 GMT -5
I feel like I'm the only person here who'd prefer a more hyper-realistic style, like what we had with 2019 Lion King. The style would also be consistent with the book covers. Gaurdian of Ga'Hoole was a wonderful movie, but the semi-realism didn't feel off to me after reading the books, maybe because the fantasy aspects were much more extreme. I mean, its a book after owl kingdoms with birds wielding/forginf weapons after all Adding on to this, I'd personally prefer if it was full cgi so they'd fit in easier with the environment How would you imagine emotional scenes in this style? I feel like thats the biggest issue I have with the Lion King and hyper realistic animation. I'm afraid of having the scenes being muted because of the limitations of realistic cat faces. I feel like the best realistic animal I've seen that was still expressive is Aslan from the Narnia movies. If they went with that direction instead, I'd be happier. I think its in the eyes? Aslan had pretty expressive eyes and the eyes of the Lion King characters just looked too real? Body language, and animals have quite a lot of it. Not all emotion is showed through humanized expressions, or making something look human. Narnia did a pretty good example with Naslan, I'd be thrilled if Alibaba went this route. And yeah, the Lion King's expressions were extremely stiff. Just taking a look at the trailer, you can see cub Simba shows no other expression aside from these: Even real lion cubs are more expressive than what they did: I'd just find it more interesting to see animators give animal emotions without humanizing the faces. There's a cat I have, and he's very emotive. He has different meows, different expressions. He gives me a sad look whenever I don't let him eat all the wet cat food, he eyes get big, and his tail stays low when he goes into a car/runs outside, he purrs and headbutts me when he comes over to snuggle, etc, etc. So much body language that is foregone in the characterization of animals in media. The source material of Warriors features this kind of verbal/body language the cats use, too. Things like mrrow, hiss, and purr are used instead of yells, barks, etc. The cats bush their tails, they get poofy, their eyes become "wild with fear" in the terrifying battles they face. The cats don't cry in Warriors, yet I felt every once of Graystripe's sorrow when Silverstream died. Animals aren't as expressive as people, and even then a bit of their expressions are relatively abstract. But it doesn't make it impossible to show realistic emotion in animation, just a little bit difficult, is all. Lion King could have done a bit better in this department, but alas. The CG was pretty damn realistic nonetheless.
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Post by Saint Ambrosef on Feb 26, 2022 14:51:57 GMT -5
is Narnia-level hybrid an option? that movie still holds up really well imo. they managed to beautifully animate animals like Aslan in a hyper-realistic manner without sacrificing expressiveness, unlike the Lion King did.
EDIT: ope just saw someone already mentioned this
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Post by vectoring34 on Feb 26, 2022 15:30:36 GMT -5
is Narnia-level hybrid an option? that movie still holds up really well imo. they managed to beautifully animate animals like Aslan in a hyper-realistic manner without sacrificing expressiveness, unlike the Lion King did. EDIT: ope just saw someone already mentioned this Narnia is a question of character design rather than background integration
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Post by tema on Feb 28, 2022 12:52:41 GMT -5
ivysaur tema100% agree about guardians of ga'hoole. that movie is SO god damn good. yeah, it changed things from the books, but imo, it was the perfect way to adapt the plot in 1 movie, and if they ever did a sequel, they could easily shift things around to fit it back with where the books were going up to that point. so disappointed they never did a sequel (also the score for that film is iconic af too). warriors could totally benefit from the same treatment. changing just enough things to fit into 1 movie while still leave room for a sequel to continue whereever they left off in the books. IMO the plot (for the first series) would need to split into three films. The first book can last as a standalone just fine (it was written to be one, with nods at an overarching plot with Redtail's murder), plus it establishes the world and introduces the audience to the forest. 2, 3, and some parts of 4 make the second film since we have the main "act 2" of the overall arc there, with action against Tigerclaw being taken, the undoing of Brokenstar's warfare, and the rise of Fireheart. The rest of 4, 5, and 6 then make the last part as Bluestar "slips away," Tigerstar takes revenge on the Clans, and Firestar closes the conflict started from Redtail's murder.
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Post by π±ππππππππππ on Feb 28, 2022 13:00:30 GMT -5
I know it already got mentioned plenty on this thread but it would just be my dream come true in terms of how the Warriors movie(s) should look. Legend of the Guardians is still a fantastic one to this day:
Another example would be the Watership Down remake by Netflix:
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