Aroace
#ffa100
Name Colour
𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑
Villain Enjoyer
Taking a break from the forums because my cat died. Will probably be back mid to late October.
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Post by 𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑 on Feb 13, 2022 19:04:49 GMT -5
I think this video is incredibly well done in terms of the overall vibe and imagery. This is coming from someone who usually cannot stand bugs/has a phobia and I was thus a bit worried about how it might affect my enjoyment of this project. But everything turned out fine for me and I even shed a tear due to how sad the entire undertone of it was.
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Post by *Ottersplash* on Feb 13, 2022 20:01:26 GMT -5
The MAP is beautiful and I love the designs, art, and song, but I do agree with Thistle that it waters down any wrong Frecklewish DID do
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Post by MadameDelune on Feb 13, 2022 21:43:37 GMT -5
I really don’t like this map and how it literally has the 3 kits who drown have demonic spider designs like??? What??
And then it completely erases what was problematic about frecklewish’s character and dumbs her down to this poor innocent cat who didn’t do anything wrong
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Post by Katanaheart on Feb 13, 2022 22:17:09 GMT -5
We do at least see Frecklewish claw Mapleshade. (Green blood oozes out but because we don’t see the extent of the wound. It ends up being side lined as it moves to the next scene.)
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Post by cable on Feb 13, 2022 22:21:48 GMT -5
We do at least see Frecklewish claw Mapleshade. (Green blood oozes out but because we don’t see the extent of the wound. It ends up being side lined as it moves to the next scene.) didnt even notice it since the scene was so rapid. still, removes the parts where she continued to attack and had to be physically dragged away and also just. removes any serious rage she was shown to be experiencing in the book in favor of having her cry and look sad and afraid. it definitely feels like it was trying to glance over her attacking mapleshade to serve the rest of the watering down of her actions in the map
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Post by Katanaheart on Feb 13, 2022 22:25:00 GMT -5
We do at least see Frecklewish claw Mapleshade. (Green blood oozes out but because we don’t see the extent of the wound. It ends up being side lined as it moves to the next scene.) didnt even notice it since the scene was so rapid. still, removes the parts where she continued to attack and had to be physically dragged away and also just. removes any serious rage she was shown to be experiencing in the book in favor of having her cry and look sad and afraid. it definitely feels like it was trying to glance over her attacking mapleshade to serve the rest of the watering down of her actions in the map Heavily agree with this. The bug motif was incredibly distracting for me,so I was focusing on weird characteristics while trying to understand most of them. Like the kits changed colors for some reason and I could never tell why that color change? Like one of the kits was pink for some reason. (Also kept comparing Frecklewish to Mothwing with the new moth motif she seemed to have.)
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Post by ivysaur on Feb 14, 2022 1:56:37 GMT -5
I dont have much commentary on the actual content of the video but I really like the style! The bug designs are cute and I love how the camp is like a fairy village with doors and windows.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Feb 14, 2022 4:18:34 GMT -5
Hunh, it feels like the designs were intentionally trying to justify Frecklewish demonizing three innocent kids. They also seem to dumb down Frecklewish a lot as a character and make her out to be just a "grieving nice girl" which is off-putting. Also, the part where she's at the river, is especially strange because it's implying that Mapleshade was aware of the patrol, and was swimming toward them with her kits, while the patrol was aware of them and stood aside to let her cross on her on?? While Frecklewish watches then leave? It's like it's trying to scrub her of any blame whatsoever...The scenes where she attacked Mapleshade both times are minimized, wonder if that's intentional?
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Aroace
#ffa100
Name Colour
𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑
Villain Enjoyer
Taking a break from the forums because my cat died. Will probably be back mid to late October.
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Post by 𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑 on Feb 14, 2022 9:18:23 GMT -5
Hunh, it feels like the designs were intentionally trying to justify Frecklewish demonizing three innocent kids. They also seem to dumb down Frecklewish a lot as a character and make her out to be just a "grieving nice girl" which is off-putting. Also, the part where she's at the river, is especially strange because it's implying that Mapleshade was aware of the patrol, and was swimming toward them with her kits, while the patrol was aware of them and stood aside to let her cross on her on?? While Frecklewish watches then leave? It's like it's trying to scrub her of any blame whatsoever...The scenes where she attacked Mapleshade both times are minimized, wonder if that's intentional? Seeing as the MAP host kirikerise made an entire video essay in defense of Frecklewish not deserving to be in the Dark Forest after it was confirmed on the official Warrior Cats website that she had been placed in there (so before the article by the actual story team came out), I feel like it was intentional to a certain extent. Here it is: My personal feelings on the matter put aside, I'm still really liking the cat/bug hybrid imagery and also the fairy village concept for ThunderClan's camp. In the description of their video, kirikerise stated the following in regards to this concept: "Maggot Belly is a storyboarded MAP (Multi-Animator Project) exploring the themes of the character Frecklewish from the Warriors series. She is a character heavily motivated by her inability to cope with her grief, stemming from her brother’s death. This MAP explores the implications of her actions in the series and dives deeper into the character through the use of symbolism. Her devotion to her brother, Birchface, is shown in a world of bugs, and how focused she is on him and how she sees everything that’s hurt her brother evil, like predators." I hope this helps a bit in understanding why things were portrayed this way. They have also made it clear in the other video that their own headcanons influence their work as well as liking to speculate about character motivation.
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Post by Midnightcacoon loves Sunbeam on Feb 14, 2022 11:17:22 GMT -5
WHAT!! This map is so beautiful, I was impatiently waiting all day to see it (School long ) but now that I have it has not disappointed. The animation, song, and art was all so well done. I also like that this is in the perspective of one of Mapleshade's victims rather than Mapleshade herself, I don't see many of those if ever. The theme and concept is also well thought out. Good job to the host and animators!! Thxs for sharing!!
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Post by *•.¸♡𝘥𝘢𝘸𝘯𝘳𝘰𝘴𝘦♡¸.•* on Feb 14, 2022 11:22:21 GMT -5
Like, the portrayal of Frecklewish aside (which I don't exactly mind too much), this MAP is gorgeous and bug-themed cats is just- such a cool idea and I love it. Frecklewish's design is gorgeous. I would love to see how a map like this would be received if it were a different character we were focusing on.
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Post by Cheetahstar on Feb 14, 2022 12:20:31 GMT -5
Idk I know Mapleshade wasnt a good cat but this feels like it purposefully makes her sinister when in the book she wasnt at first? Like it implies Mapleshade smiled when Frecklewish asked if they were kin to the kits and thats... not what happened? Also I fully believe that if Frecklewish wasnt pulled off Maple, she would have been willing to attack the kits had they gotten too close to her
Anyway Frecklewish is a bad cat and hope shes having fun in the DF
NOW that being said the art, animation, and such in this map is top quality, love it
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Aroace
#ffa100
Name Colour
𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑
Villain Enjoyer
Taking a break from the forums because my cat died. Will probably be back mid to late October.
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Post by 𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑 on Feb 14, 2022 12:27:34 GMT -5
Idk I know Mapleshade wasnt a good cat but this feels like it purposefully makes her sinister when in the book she wasnt at first? Like it implies Mapleshade smiled when Frecklewish asked if they were kin to the kits and thats... not what happened? Anyway Frecklewish is a bad cat and hope shes having fun in the DF NOW that being said the art, animation, and such in this map is top quality, love it As I've said in my comment towards Maplefrost above, the creator of this MAP stated in the description of their hosted video that this was supposed to be about how Frecklewish perceived the situation and not from a neutral perspective on the matter.
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Cloudstorm
Don’t let it kill you. Even when it hurts like hell.
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Post by Cloudstorm on Feb 14, 2022 13:22:35 GMT -5
It’s a pretty beautifully done MAP, and the whole bug-themed cat designs is really unique and a refreshing style and emphasizes the symbolism that’s being portrayed, and having the doors to the dens very much being inspired from the Lord of The Rings Trilogy Hobbit houses, albeit maybe unintentional? Is a pretty neat touch. I wouldn’t exactly per se, say their completely pardoning, or minimizing Frecklewish’s actions or transgressions. Moreover they just watered down the more violent and bloody pieces, which personally doesn’t bother me. And it’s refreshing change of pace seeing a MAP done through one of her victim’s POV’s instead of Mapleshade(which there’s nothing wrong with them, just they’ve been done to death). And it’s nice to see people exploring and speculating about her potential Motivations and grief from the lose of her brother and all. And don’t really see the problem with people portraying or headcanoning her with a more “innocent grieving women” motif, as it’s really no different then people demonizing her as some horrible, dark-hearted person that couldn’t careless about the kit’s lives, since tbh both sides of the argument are almost entirely based off of self-interpretations and postulation of what might have transpired during the events of MV that are shrouded in mystery.
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Post by 𝐛𝐥𝟒𝐜𝐤𝐬𝐨𝐥 on Feb 17, 2022 14:03:33 GMT -5
I'm not sure why people are getting so mad over this. I don't see the problem with someone making a MAP with their headcanons and ideas about what happened. It's called an opinion. This person is in no way forcing this belief on other people.
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Post by 🔥Firestar🔥 on Feb 17, 2022 14:20:18 GMT -5
I'm not sure why people are getting so mad over this. I don't see the problem with someone making a MAP with their headcanons and ideas about what happened. It's called an opinion. This person is in no way forcing this belief on other people. This. It's called an interpretation, people. This is a MAP about how the creator sees her character, their headcanons on what she was feeling at the moment and how to give her more character, Frecklewish's POV... And the MAP is exclusively about her trying to cope with grief and being devoted to Birchface, so i don't see why we should be shown a horrible evil heartless cat instead, when the MAP is not about that. "Maggot Belly is a storyboarded MAP (Multi-Animator Project) exploring the themes of the character Frecklewish from the Warriors series. She is a character heavily motivated by her inability to cope with her grief, stemming from her brother’s death. This MAP explores the implications of her actions in the series and dives deeper into the character through the use of symbolism. Her devotion to her brother, Birchface, is shown in a world of bugs, and how focused she is on him and how she sees everything that’s hurt her brother evil, like predators.
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Aroace
#ffa100
Name Colour
𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑
Villain Enjoyer
Taking a break from the forums because my cat died. Will probably be back mid to late October.
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Post by 𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑 on Feb 17, 2022 14:58:34 GMT -5
One more thing I want to say is that there are already so many MAPs from Mapleshade's POV on what happened during her novella which is also by no means an unbiased account of the things that transpired in it. Mapleshade had her view on the entire matter just like Frecklewish and most other characters had their own perception. I'm just a bit taken aback how some people immediately bash a video simply because of showing a different interpretation than yet another Mapleshade one presenting the same instance all over again.
This is coming from someone who understands Frecklewish but still dislikes her (because I can) and who feels sorry for Mapleshade to an extent but still sees her as an enjoyable villain (because she is). My opinion on the whole "Frecklewish is in the Dark Forest" debate is that she should not be the only one out of the MV cast (except for Mapleshade herself already) to have gone there. Oakstar and possibly Ravenwing should be with her as well. They also had something to do with the tragic ending of the AppleMaple kits and even more so going by the logic of the official story team article. I'm hoping we can all at least agree that the real victims of this entire situation were Patchkit, Larchkit and Petalkit.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Feb 17, 2022 15:55:38 GMT -5
I'm not sure why people are getting so mad over this. I don't see the problem with someone making a MAP with their headcanons and ideas about what happened. It's called an opinion. This person is in no way forcing this belief on other people. People are also allowed to have criticism and their own opinions toward pieces of media too?
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Post by cable on Feb 18, 2022 14:38:30 GMT -5
know i should be annoyed about being shaded but im half comatose in bed with something thats wrecking my lungs so if i care at all about whatever discourse has started above, its solely because its not about how its not me disliking frecklewish, its me thinking this doesnt do her character complete justice, because if you want a truly interesting examination of events from her perspective, why would you remove her most morally gray actions? the things that would be most interesting to see from her perspective? the concepts are interesting, particularly her viewing those she dislikes as predators, but it could have been more, and thats a huge theme in frecklewish content. and like. i would be just as annoyed if it portrayed her as a complete monster, for the record. like i said, its not about hating frecklewish, its about how polarized her portrayals in the fandom are, rather than finding the middle ground Don't worry, I didn't mean it was a personal attack to you, I just saw some things people said and used them as examples. There are other people who said they really disliked this map but I just decided to word it this way because who doesn't love a little exaggerating. ahhh okay sorry, im just a little twitchy right now (and dont read exaggeration well). i also wanted to just elaborate my viewpoint because i dont know if it came across well the first time? i dont think its the map itself i hate, more its the trend of people refusing to see a moral grey with frecklewish and instead either making her a complete innocent or a complete monster, and as a big popular project, this map becomes what i associate with it. like i said i think this has a lot of very interesting ideas, i just wish it actually included frecklewishs canonical morally gray actions because thats the most interesting part of her character and what i think would be best to see from her pov. maybe they could have included the scene where they pull her off of mapleshade, and the cats around her for a brief second all look like predators, representing her lashing out from grief. tl;dr its not particularly the map, its the greater trend, its just that the map represents the trend so well
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Post by 𝐛𝐥𝟒𝐜𝐤𝐬𝐨𝐥 on Feb 18, 2022 15:14:20 GMT -5
Don't worry, I didn't mean it was a personal attack to you, I just saw some things people said and used them as examples. There are other people who said they really disliked this map but I just decided to word it this way because who doesn't love a little exaggerating. ahhh okay sorry, im just a little twitchy right now (and dont read exaggeration well). i also wanted to just elaborate my viewpoint because i dont know if it came across well the first time? i dont think its the map itself i hate, more its the trend of people refusing to see a moral grey with frecklewish and instead either making her a complete innocent or a complete monster, and as a big popular project, this map becomes what i associate with it. like i said i think this has a lot of very interesting ideas, i just wish it actually included frecklewishs canonical morally gray actions because thats the most interesting part of her character and what i think would be best to see from her pov. maybe they could have included the scene where they pull her off of mapleshade, and the cats around her for a brief second all look like predators, representing her lashing out from grief. tl;dr its not particularly the map, its the greater trend, its just that the map represents the trend so well Yes, that explains it way better! I'm sorry if I made it look like I was personally attacking you, it was just an example.
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Post by *Ottersplash* on Feb 18, 2022 18:16:52 GMT -5
I'm not sure why people are getting so mad over this. I don't see the problem with someone making a MAP with their headcanons and ideas about what happened. It's called an opinion. This person is in no way forcing this belief on other people. No one is mad? No one is saying the MAP maker can't make the MAP. We are just critical of it. Doesn't make us angry, just means we don't agree
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Post by 𝐛𝐥𝟒𝐜𝐤𝐬𝐨𝐥 on Feb 19, 2022 2:48:44 GMT -5
I'm not sure why people are getting so mad over this. I don't see the problem with someone making a MAP with their headcanons and ideas about what happened. It's called an opinion. This person is in no way forcing this belief on other people. No one is mad? No one is saying the MAP maker can't make the MAP. We are just critical of it. Doesn't make us angry, just means we don't agree People are being mad about what is portrayed in the MAP, saying things like it demonizes the kits while they obviously had spider designs because Mapleshade had one, it portrays Frecklewish the wrong way, etc. Yeah, maybe these are all 'criticisms', but when piled up, it does look like people are angry about this MAP. It's on you to take one word in my post incredibly serious or not.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Feb 19, 2022 9:22:00 GMT -5
No one is mad? No one is saying the MAP maker can't make the MAP. We are just critical of it. Doesn't make us angry, just means we don't agree People are being mad about what is portrayed in the MAP, saying things like it demonizes the kits while they obviously had spider designs because Mapleshade had one, it portrays Frecklewish the wrong way, etc. Yeah, maybe these are all 'criticisms', but when piled up, it does look like people are angry about this MAP. It's on you to take one word in my post incredibly serious or not. But we're not mad? Lol. Just because you perceive someone else feeling a certain way, and assume that is the intent, it doesn't mean it is. Simply making an observation and then giving criticism doesn't mean a person is angry, especially if they're not fond of the portrayal of something in media. Having criticism =/= mad. Just because someone is criticizing a piece of media and disagrees with it doesn't mean they're just senselessly angry at the said media for no reason.
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Post by 𝐛𝐥𝟒𝐜𝐤𝐬𝐨𝐥 on Feb 19, 2022 13:46:15 GMT -5
People are being mad about what is portrayed in the MAP, saying things like it demonizes the kits while they obviously had spider designs because Mapleshade had one, it portrays Frecklewish the wrong way, etc. Yeah, maybe these are all 'criticisms', but when piled up, it does look like people are angry about this MAP. It's on you to take one word in my post incredibly serious or not. But we're not mad? Lol. Just because you perceive someone else feeling a certain way, and assume that is the intent, it doesn't mean it is. Simply making an observation and then giving criticism doesn't mean a person is angry, especially if they're not fond of the portrayal of something in media. Having criticism =/= mad. Just because someone is criticizing a piece of media and disagrees with it doesn't mean they're just senselessly angry at the said media for no reason. I am not going to repeat everything I said before, so I'm going to keep it simple and short. I never personally attacked anyone and never intended to make people feel that way. If people feel that way, it's simply not my problem. I made my first post out of confusion about the negativity around this MAP, slighty exaggerating with my word choices (which is also something I have said before), voicing my opinion on this negativity and I guess that caused a lot of people to feel personally attacked and in the need to justify themselves and their opinion? While I was attacking neither of these? It honestly isn't that big of deal. Also, keep in mind that this is the internet. If I interpreted your negative criticisms as being mad in some way, I'm sorry. It was the sheer amount of negative criticisms surrounding this MAP that drove me to use that one word. I feel like I shouldn't apologizing for that but I don't want to make this a huge discussion. So I would appreciate it if we don't take this any further. It's not worth the time of any of us.
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Post by mintedstar/fur on Feb 20, 2022 11:43:09 GMT -5
Seems like there's a miscommunication. Probably best to keep moving.
For a side question, I am curious, does it seem like this design (bug-like, etc.) is popular enough that it'll make it to another MAP? I know sometimes we get series or something. I personally really like the concept of the design and it can look quite cute.
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Aroace
#ffa100
Name Colour
𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑
Villain Enjoyer
Taking a break from the forums because my cat died. Will probably be back mid to late October.
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Post by 𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑 on Feb 20, 2022 11:55:58 GMT -5
Seems like there's a miscommunication. Probably best to keep moving. For a side question, I am curious, does it seem like this design (bug-like, etc.) is popular enough that it'll make it to another MAP? I know sometimes we get series or something. I personally really like the concept of the design and it can look quite cute. I'm honestly not sure if it's a popular design choice overall but do know that the host of this particular MAP likes insects, more specifically spiders, thus the bug imagery. So perhaps they will incorporate a similar concept into their next project.
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Post by cable on Feb 20, 2022 16:56:40 GMT -5
For a side question, I am curious, does it seem like this design (bug-like, etc.) is popular enough that it'll make it to another MAP? I know sometimes we get series or something. I personally really like the concept of the design and it can look quite cute. id love a ravenpaw map in this style. or maybe a bird-styled dovewing one, with cats she doesnt trust or feels pressured by portrayed as birds of prey.
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