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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Feb 10, 2022 14:26:00 GMT -5
putting ASC spoiler tag just in case any of this is addressed in the books. from the river preview: we know the topic of changing the code is brought up and will be discussed and shown to us more in depth than what we saw in the prolouge. so, with that in mind. here are my thoughts. letting cats chose mates from other clans still won't solve any problems. they'd still have to chose where to live. and loyalty in itself will die if they just let the mates move between clans all willy nilly. at that point, why even bother having seperate clans at all if u're just gonna let anyone come and go as they please? letting cross clan relationships become "legal" doesn't solve anything in my opinion. sure, it saves the readers from reading about drama, but for the cats, i dont see how it changes anything. clan loyalty will basically not exist. and as i've said many times in the past, the clans are built on loyalty itself. without it, the clans will cease to exist. the founders shouldn't allow that to happen so why should they change the code? even if they add my suggestion of having amendments--where if u want a mate from another clan, u have to make ur choice and stick to it; either u move to their clan or they move to urs, and neither of u can change ur minds and u have to change loyalties quick--it STILL wouldn't turly work. u can't force cats to change loyalties and completely change their mindsets. so im asking again, what does making cross clan relationships legal even do? clan loyalty will disappear and the heart of all the clans with it. without clan loyalty, the clans dont exist. therefore, in my mind, they shouldn't change the first code. the code exists for a reason.
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Transgender
🌌dapple🌙 (formerly freckle)
I didn't get thunder yet but the one thing I wonder abt has been spoiled so should I still buy?
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Post by 🌌dapple🌙 (formerly freckle) on Feb 10, 2022 14:41:13 GMT -5
This is an interesting perspective! I feel a counterargument to this would be that the clans as a nation of 5, already assist each other all the time with exterior threats. Not only this but they have Medicine cats and more times than not, they're loyal to their own clan still while being able to be friends. I don't see why two cats from different clans can't have what would be essentially a long distance relationship, if half clan relations were made legal. They still have gatherings and there are times and places where cats from other clans meet. Such as border patrols and such, the only difference would be they wouldn't have to act aggressive. What need would there be to be aggressive? They all are just cats.
Though the sacrifice I'd see made would be "what if a cat from my clan attacks my mate in another clan/ my mate's kin" to that I'd say unless it was obviously intentional (like let's say OOTS Bumblestripe intentionally wanted to hurt Tigerheart, knowing he could get away with it bc "loyalty", then there is that risk. Seeing as the half clan relationship cats made that decision to be together, if something went wrong they'd only have themselves to blame as that's the way the clans sorta function.
They can be legal, and long distance, who would care, but if one got hurt unintentionally by the other's clan and it's awkward they'd only have themselves to blame.
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Feb 10, 2022 14:46:31 GMT -5
This is an interesting perspective! I feel a counterargument to this would be that the clans as a nation of 5, already assist each other all the time with exterior threats. Not only this but they have Medicine cats and more times than not, they're loyal to their own clan still while being able to be friends. I don't see why two cats from different clans can't have what would be essentially a long distance relationship, if half clan relations were made legal. They still have gatherings and there are times and places where cats from other clans meet. Such as border patrols and such, the only difference would be they wouldn't have to act aggressive. What need would there be to be aggressive? They all are just cats. Though the sacrifice I'd see made would be "what if a cat from my clan attacks my mate in another clan/ my mate's kin" to that I'd say unless it was obviously intentional (like let's say OOTS Bumblestripe intentionally wanted to hurt Tigerheart, knowing he could get away with it bc "loyalty", then there is that risk. Seeing as the half clan relationship cats made that decision to be together, if something went wrong they'd only have themselves to blame as that's the way the clans sorta function. They can be legal, and long distance, who would care, but if one got hurt unintentionally by the other's clan and it's awkward they'd only have themselves to blame. i understand where people r coming from when they claim they can still be loyal and still have a mate form another clan, but the whole "what if our clans have battle one day" will always convince me it's not possible unless the cats invovled in the cross clan relationship r heartless and only care about one another and none of their clanmates. here's my tangent on the topic: that whole situation of "what if a battle does happen and my mate is forced to choose who to fight? my clan to protect his birth clan? or his clan and hurt cats he grew up with?" is why i dont like cross clan relationships. in my perspective, dovewing has thrown away her thunderclan loyalty without a care for anyone else back in thunderclan. what if her shadowclan clanmates hurts ivypool, ivypool's kits, fernsong (her bro in law), or anyone else she cares about? and if dovewing herself got into battle and had to choose between two cats? like say if things with ivypool weren't patched, and in a battle, tigerstar got pounced on by ivypool. would dovewing really have strong enough will to say "screw my sister, i only care about my mate" ?
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Transgender
🌌dapple🌙 (formerly freckle)
I didn't get thunder yet but the one thing I wonder abt has been spoiled so should I still buy?
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Post by 🌌dapple🌙 (formerly freckle) on Feb 10, 2022 15:36:39 GMT -5
This is an interesting perspective! I feel a counterargument to this would be that the clans as a nation of 5, already assist each other all the time with exterior threats. Not only this but they have Medicine cats and more times than not, they're loyal to their own clan still while being able to be friends. I don't see why two cats from different clans can't have what would be essentially a long distance relationship, if half clan relations were made legal. They still have gatherings and there are times and places where cats from other clans meet. Such as border patrols and such, the only difference would be they wouldn't have to act aggressive. What need would there be to be aggressive? They all are just cats. Though the sacrifice I'd see made would be "what if a cat from my clan attacks my mate in another clan/ my mate's kin" to that I'd say unless it was obviously intentional (like let's say OOTS Bumblestripe intentionally wanted to hurt Tigerheart, knowing he could get away with it bc "loyalty", then there is that risk. Seeing as the half clan relationship cats made that decision to be together, if something went wrong they'd only have themselves to blame as that's the way the clans sorta function. They can be legal, and long distance, who would care, but if one got hurt unintentionally by the other's clan and it's awkward they'd only have themselves to blame. i understand where people r coming from when they claim they can still be loyal and still have a mate form another clan, but the whole "what if our clans have battle one day" will always convince me it's not possible unless the cats invovled in the cross clan relationship r heartless and only care about one another and none of their clanmates. here's my tangent on the topic: that whole situation of "what if a battle does happen and my mate is forced to choose who to fight? my clan to protect his birth clan? or his clan and hurt cats he grew up with?" is why i dont like cross clan relationships. in my perspective, dovewing has thrown away her thunderclan loyalty without a care for anyone else back in thunderclan. what if her shadowclan clanmates hurts ivypool, ivypool's kits, fernsong (her bro in law), or anyone else she cares about? and if dovewing herself got into battle and had to choose between two cats? like say if things with ivypool weren't patched, and in a battle, tigerstar got pounced on by ivypool. would dovewing really have strong enough will to say "screw my sister, i only care about my mate" ? I understand that! And honestly yeah it is hard to say. To switch clans is to switch loyalties in many ways, primarily because of the kin connection. But I guess it would simply come down to the choice of the cats involved in the relationship themselves. They should be aware of the risk and whether or not they decide to pursue a relationship they'd know their clans would be rivals and fight. Or of course the alternative of one abandoning their entire kin and life for the other. At this time I can't really think of a good solution for this (aside from the two cats trying to pull a Leafcrow and leave entirely, but that only causes more problems)
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Feb 10, 2022 15:48:00 GMT -5
i understand where people r coming from when they claim they can still be loyal and still have a mate form another clan, but the whole "what if our clans have battle one day" will always convince me it's not possible unless the cats invovled in the cross clan relationship r heartless and only care about one another and none of their clanmates. here's my tangent on the topic: that whole situation of "what if a battle does happen and my mate is forced to choose who to fight? my clan to protect his birth clan? or his clan and hurt cats he grew up with?" is why i dont like cross clan relationships. in my perspective, dovewing has thrown away her thunderclan loyalty without a care for anyone else back in thunderclan. what if her shadowclan clanmates hurts ivypool, ivypool's kits, fernsong (her bro in law), or anyone else she cares about? and if dovewing herself got into battle and had to choose between two cats? like say if things with ivypool weren't patched, and in a battle, tigerstar got pounced on by ivypool. would dovewing really have strong enough will to say "screw my sister, i only care about my mate" ? I understand that! And honestly yeah it is hard to say. To switch clans is to switch loyalties in many ways, primarily because of the kin connection. But I guess it would simply come down to the choice of the cats involved in the relationship themselves. They should be aware of the risk and whether or not they decide to pursue a relationship they'd know their clans would be rivals and fight. Or of course the alternative of one abandoning their entire kin and life for the other. At this time I can't really think of a good solution for this (aside from the two cats trying to pull a Leafcrow and leave entirely, but that only causes more problems) yeah i have leafxcrow bias, but even still, they had the right idea. if cinderpelt didn't die, leafpool COULD have just ran away. it'd be better for both of them if they could be fine with knowing "my kin is safe and i can leave them behind." crowfeather at the time only had his mother, and he already felt out of touch with his clan, and leafpool had insecurities because of brightheart, and she would have been fine at the time knowing her sister had brambleclaw, their parents, etc. but its very situational. i have yet to see a heartless cross clan pair who are like "we dont care about either of our kin. we just need each other." idk if thats a good or bad thing though lmao
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