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Post by Redstorm on Jan 31, 2022 13:50:32 GMT -5
So Vicky Holmes responded to a question I had on Brokenstar being the leader of the Dark Forest. This is what she responded with!
"Hello *, that is such an interesting analysis of the battle in the Dark Forest. I think I wanted to boil down the essence of the final clash to the two main shades of light and dark in the very first series. For me, this was Firestar and Brokenstar. I think Brokenstar paved the way for Tigerstar's reign of terror, forced ShadowClan to take on characteristics that they had not previously possessed, and created a sense of "one bad Clan in the forest". I would LOVE to do a Super Edition focused on Brokenstar, to make him a fully realised character with some sympathetic traits so we can understand him better. Best wishes, Vicky"
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Post by Saint Ambrosef on Jan 31, 2022 14:42:02 GMT -5
vicky come back for brokenstar se WHEN
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Post by vectoring34 on Jan 31, 2022 14:42:41 GMT -5
What was your question? Anyway, that's really interesting that Brokenstar was indeed meant to be the big leader. Tigerstar was Firestar's personal enemy, but it was always personal with him rather than a clan issue. It was Brokenstar who really had big plans, Tigerstar was just obsessed and bitter. As far as "leaders" of the Dark Forest go, it's logical for Brokenstar to be calling the shots for them as a larger group while Tigerstar just focuses on his personal grudge.
Brokenstar with sympathetic traits though? Now that is interesting.
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Post by Redstorm on Jan 31, 2022 14:53:32 GMT -5
What was your question? Anyway, that's really interesting that Brokenstar was indeed meant to be the big leader. Tigerstar was Firestar's personal enemy, but it was always personal with him rather than a clan issue. It was Brokenstar who really had big plans, Tigerstar was just obsessed and bitter. As far as "leaders" of the Dark Forest go, it's logical for Brokenstar to be calling the shots for them as a larger group while Tigerstar just focuses on his personal grudge. Brokenstar with sympathetic traits though? Now that is interesting. Question was about the dynamics of the Dark Forest! I brought up a lot of points that I've seen on wcrp too!!
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Post by Redstorm on Jan 31, 2022 14:56:26 GMT -5
vicky come back for brokenstar se WHEN meanwhile on reddit with my identical thread, people are freaking out about the potential Brokenstar SE
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Post by Redstorm on Jan 31, 2022 15:02:36 GMT -5
But I really liked Vicky's logic. Only thing I wish is if there was a Bluestar vs Brokenstar or Lionblaze vs Brokenstar battle or maybe even Lionheart vs Brokenstar battle.
I think the yellowfang kill just made Brokenstar look like a joke
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Post by Saint Ambrosef on Jan 31, 2022 16:06:32 GMT -5
But I really liked Vicky's logic. Only thing I wish is if there was a Bluestar vs Brokenstar or Lionblaze vs Brokenstar battle or maybe even Lionheart vs Brokenstar battle. I think the yellowfang kill just made Brokenstar look like a joke personal opinion, but i thought it was particularly awful that they made yellowfang kill brokenstar again, considering how it tore her up inside to be her own son's executioner.
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Post by Moonblazer on Jan 31, 2022 16:27:56 GMT -5
Yesssss I knew Brokenstar was the head honcho of the Dark Forest and the top of the evil ladder. Honestly a Brokenstar SE with sympathetic traits would make sense considering we already knew he was a sympathetic character that became an utter monster and who would always become a monster. Honestly, I like to think the moment Brokenstar was born was the moment the Dark Forest began to truly gain its power, considering how much darkness and hatred Brokenstar spilled into the entirety of his own clan and out into the other clans too.
Brokenstar’s a disgusting and frankly horrifying character and seeing things from his twisted up mind would be interesting. Because nobody can possibly excuse his actions. Not at all.
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Post by vectoring34 on Jan 31, 2022 17:54:17 GMT -5
What was your question? Anyway, that's really interesting that Brokenstar was indeed meant to be the big leader. Tigerstar was Firestar's personal enemy, but it was always personal with him rather than a clan issue. It was Brokenstar who really had big plans, Tigerstar was just obsessed and bitter. As far as "leaders" of the Dark Forest go, it's logical for Brokenstar to be calling the shots for them as a larger group while Tigerstar just focuses on his personal grudge. Brokenstar with sympathetic traits though? Now that is interesting. Question was about the dynamics of the Dark Forest! I brought up a lot of points that I've seen on wcrp too!! Would you mind posting the text of the question here?
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Post by Ṣanɗypaw™ on Jan 31, 2022 18:27:04 GMT -5
Brokenstar SE PLEASE! I'd love to see more of him and the sick justifications that made him make so many horrible decisions. I'm also happy he was confirmed to be the leader of the DF cats, it does make a lot of sense he would be.
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Post by Redstorm on Jan 31, 2022 20:27:44 GMT -5
Question was about the dynamics of the Dark Forest! I brought up a lot of points that I've seen on wcrp too!! Would you mind posting the text of the question here? so there was a lot of parts to my Q! And it was done over the course of 2 years. I'll just list all the communications. 2020 Me: Hi Vicky! Big fan of the warriors series since I was a kid. One question I had was what do you think the dynamics between Tigerstar and Brokenstar were like in the Dark Forest? It seemed Tigerstar originally had the alpha cat status, but then Brokenstar seemed to take over especially by The Forgotten Warrior/The Last Hope. Brokenstar even ordered Hawkfrost and Tigerstar to train their warriors in an order like tone. How do you think they interacted/thought of each other and how did other cats such as Mapleshade, Hawkfrost, Thistleclaw, and other more rank and file cats fit into the dynamics of the Dark Forest and who they considered/respected as the leader/alpha cat? V: Hello Eddie. Ooh, this is a great questions! I truly think Tigerstar would have dominated Brokenstar in the Dark Forest by sheer force of personality. Brokenstar would have retained his leadership qualities, but I think deep down Tigerstar would not have respected him. best wishes, Vicky Me: Oh awesome! I saw that he definitely was building up to be the head honcho. Was there any reason Brokenstar kinda took over near the end? He [Brokenstar] turned his back and pushed his way between Tigerstar and Hawkfrost. “Go,” he growled, disappearing into the shadow. “Train my warriors. The final battle is near.” In addition to him leading the gatherings in the last hope/the forgotten warrior by the end Also all the dark forest cats fleeing after Brokenstar died with only Tigerstar remaining to face Firestar 2022 Me again: Hey Vicky! Was wonhdering if there was any updates to the 2nd question? I and some others theorize Tigerstar let Brokenstar take the leadership role so he could spend more energy on fighting Firestar rather than the battle itself! And in some sense was manipulating the others! Hope you're doing great!! Then it goes into the exchange I mentioned above. But yeah I remessaged her on her fb fan page after 2 years!
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Post by halogen on Jan 31, 2022 20:33:43 GMT -5
But I really liked Vicky's logic. Only thing I wish is if there was a Bluestar vs Brokenstar or Lionblaze vs Brokenstar battle or maybe even Lionheart vs Brokenstar battle. I think the yellowfang kill just made Brokenstar look like a joke Yeah, it always annoyed me how in the Dark Forest battle they had all this potential for dramatic new confrontations and lots of cats with a grievance against each one only to have all the villains killed by the same cat that killed them the first time (or in Tigerstar's case the cat that was still the obvious choice, with the cat that actually killed him not even there). I was glad how in ALiTM they didn't have Darktail just get killed by Onestar again.
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Post by *Ottersplash* on Jan 31, 2022 21:09:54 GMT -5
But I really liked Vicky's logic. Only thing I wish is if there was a Bluestar vs Brokenstar or Lionblaze vs Brokenstar battle or maybe even Lionheart vs Brokenstar battle. I think the yellowfang kill just made Brokenstar look like a joke Yellowfang having to take him out twice makes sense for the narrative. Yellowfang is also a pretty competent warrior, given she fought off Blackstar when he was Blackfoot
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Post by vectoring34 on Jan 31, 2022 23:05:09 GMT -5
Would you mind posting the text of the question here? so there was a lot of parts to my Q! And it was done over the course of 2 years. I'll just list all the communications. 2020 Me: Hi Vicky! Big fan of the warriors series since I was a kid. One question I had was what do you think the dynamics between Tigerstar and Brokenstar were like in the Dark Forest? It seemed Tigerstar originally had the alpha cat status, but then Brokenstar seemed to take over especially by The Forgotten Warrior/The Last Hope. Brokenstar even ordered Hawkfrost and Tigerstar to train their warriors in an order like tone. How do you think they interacted/thought of each other and how did other cats such as Mapleshade, Hawkfrost, Thistleclaw, and other more rank and file cats fit into the dynamics of the Dark Forest and who they considered/respected as the leader/alpha cat? V: Hello Eddie. Ooh, this is a great questions! I truly think Tigerstar would have dominated Brokenstar in the Dark Forest by sheer force of personality. Brokenstar would have retained his leadership qualities, but I think deep down Tigerstar would not have respected him. best wishes, Vicky Me: Oh awesome! I saw that he definitely was building up to be the head honcho. Was there any reason Brokenstar kinda took over near the end? He [Brokenstar] turned his back and pushed his way between Tigerstar and Hawkfrost. “Go,” he growled, disappearing into the shadow. “Train my warriors. The final battle is near.” In addition to him leading the gatherings in the last hope/the forgotten warrior by the end Also all the dark forest cats fleeing after Brokenstar died with only Tigerstar remaining to face Firestar 2022 Me again: Hey Vicky! Was wonhdering if there was any updates to the 2nd question? I and some others theorize Tigerstar let Brokenstar take the leadership role so he could spend more energy on fighting Firestar rather than the battle itself! And in some sense was manipulating the others! Hope you're doing great!! Then it goes into the exchange I mentioned above. But yeah I remessaged her on her fb fan page after 2 years! Nice. I do think that the idea of Tigerstar having more "sheer force of personality" when compared to Brokenstar having leadership qualities is a good way to summarize the dynamic. Brokenstar is the better leader, able to give speeches and a figurehead that others can rally around, and he has the stature of a leader for lack of better term. But Tigerstar is like the evil advisor character who is able to twist Brokenstar because his force of will is much stronger than Brokenstar's. You can almost imagine Tigerstar in a Jafar-like role and Brokenstar being a sort of evil sultan in that case. Brokenstar is the ultimate leader and is viewed as such, but Tigerstar can push and prod and certainly doesn't think of him as any kind of leader.
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Post by plaggy on Feb 1, 2022 2:30:54 GMT -5
I wouldnt mind her giving Brokenstar sympathetic traits. At least not to the point people will try to justify his actions. Like certain characters I know.
I think they should definitely take the risk of making a SE about a villain.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2022 9:50:19 GMT -5
I'd like a Brokenstar book tbh
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Post by fuzzycat on Feb 2, 2022 1:40:48 GMT -5
BROKENSTAR SE BROKENSTAR SE BROKENSTAR SE BROKENSTAR SE BROKENSTAR SE BROKENSTAR SE
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Feb 2, 2022 6:27:18 GMT -5
Brokenstar with sympathetic traits...? Interesting. One of the bigger reasons why I never cared for Brokenstar was because he never felt fleshed out, and he was just evil to be evil. There wasn't much substance to his actual character, just how he was used in the plot as an evil huncho. In comparison we got so much more emotionally charged perspectives from Yellowfang, making her story and character quite incredibly well written while she was alive and involved in the Brokenstar situation. So I would like to see more of Broken with sympathetic traits, he can still be a monster with those characteristics of course. However, I will say I wouldn't be fond of Vicky's writing...
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Post by Katanaheart on Feb 2, 2022 8:28:55 GMT -5
I wouldn’t like a Brokenstar SE. A novella at most or nothing at all. I prefer him as the destined evil monster from the beginning as it makes me feel nothing but typical hatred for a being destined to bring vengeance on the Clans for an error that has been lost to time. He has enough sympathetic traits in the fandom, gained from having Lizardstripe as a foster mother who didn’t even want her own kits, let alone an extra mouth to feed.
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Post by Cloudstorm on Feb 2, 2022 13:06:25 GMT -5
While a Brokenstar SE would definitely be interesting, and I would like to see Brokenstar fleshed out and giving more personality from his perspective. And obviously give him some sympathetic traits to make him A genuine character with substance. I highly doubt Victoria will return to write 1 book, even if the opportunity was presented to her, I don’t think she would. And I trust anything that Erica Sussman would do with his character, since I can easily foresee her painting him as some morally gray character, and get the audience to start sympathizing with him, and claiming he’s a misunderstood character and isn’t all evil, which frankly is total bullcrap, the guy is pure unmitigated evil, and we don’t need another villain being portrayed in a misguided manner that would make people think otherwise. So probably best if the blank spaces in his backstory remain that way.
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Post by BҽɾɾყႦʅσσɱ on Feb 2, 2022 16:20:27 GMT -5
On one hand (or rather paw) I would love a Brokenstar SE, Novella or even GN but one the other, the risk of him getting shown in an overly sympathetic way that could potentially make some people excuse his horrendous actions is just too damn high. I personally don't want or need to understand why he thought murdering his own father, various ShadowClan kits and generally being a heartless dictator was justified in some way. Let him just be pure evil like he was shown before.
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