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Post by Redstorm on Jan 24, 2022 16:43:19 GMT -5
Ashfur in Bramblestar's body was incredibly strong. I've seen some users here say Ashfur had really good fighting skills.
I think we'd all know Bramblestar was stronger than Ashfur in a normal fight. But who do you all think was stronger between Ashfur in Bramblestar's body vs. Bramblestar in his own body?
This is also assuming the body is in peak physical condition.
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Post by *Ottersplash* on Jan 24, 2022 16:46:11 GMT -5
I'm not sure it's a matter of strength and more a matter of being willing to do underhanded and brutal things
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Jan 24, 2022 16:53:14 GMT -5
there is no reality where ashfur is stronger...none.
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Post by BҽɾɾყႦʅσσɱ on Jan 24, 2022 17:07:18 GMT -5
Bramblestar physically. But Ashfur mental-, no wait. Ashfur wasn't mentally strong since he had literally gone insane from his lovesickness for Squirrelflight. He was definitely way shadier than Bramblestar though and thus fully ready to use any weakness a cat had against them as well as outright brutality.
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Post by Ṣanɗypaw™ on Jan 24, 2022 18:17:31 GMT -5
Bramblestar since he knows his own body and is mentally stable.
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Post by Twilight Sparkle on Jan 25, 2022 6:02:27 GMT -5
Bramblestar. I think Ashfur only appeared stronger because he didn't give a mousetail about Bramblestar's own body and thus probably used it rather recklessly.
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Post by crowspirit on Jan 25, 2022 6:09:39 GMT -5
To be honest, after reading The Silent Thaw I thought we'd get a scene of Bramblestarʼs spirit fighting Ashfur in his own body. I'm quite sad this never happened, this would have been super badasss. Bramblestar is definitely stronger than Ashfur though, he just has way more experience than Ashfur.
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Post by vectoring34 on Jan 25, 2022 8:11:00 GMT -5
Spotfur's Rebellion makes it very clear that Ashfur is all kinds of coked up kinds of strong while in Bramblestar's body. He fought FIVE WARRIORS at once and he was holding his own, that's unbelievable. I don't think anyone else in the series has ever managed anything like that. He even managed to kill one of them entirely by himself in that brawl. And it's not like this is inconsistent either, as the Imposter never actually loses a clean fight. He was beating the snot out of Tigerheart until he got distracted by Squirrelflight and hit by a cheap shot, and even after being wounded badly in the battle, it still took the effort of a full three deputies to pin him down. He also easily defeats Rootspring and Squirrelflight in a row.
Bramblestar has never done anything remotely like that by himself. In fact, his record for combat is actually very unimpressive with no real wins aside from cheap shotting Hawkfrost.
Maybe it's just because Ashfur has more skills and can put them to use in Bramblestar's larger body, maybe it's because Ashfur is willing to push his body to the breaking point freely, or maybe being possessed strengthened it, but whatever the case, I think it's clear that if you put Ashfur in Bramblestar's body and had him fight Bramblestar, Bramblestar would get the snot kicked out of him
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Post by 𝐛𝐥𝟒𝐜𝐤𝐬𝐨𝐥 on Jan 25, 2022 10:26:57 GMT -5
Exactly what vectoring34 said. I do think that Bramblestar in his own body is stronger than Ashfur in his own body, because Bramblestar is so large.
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Post by Redstorm on Jan 25, 2022 19:09:48 GMT -5
Spotfur's Rebellion makes it very clear that Ashfur is all kinds of coked up kinds of strong while in Bramblestar's body. He fought FIVE WARRIORS at once and he was holding his own, that's unbelievable. I don't think anyone else in the series has ever managed anything like that. He even managed to kill one of them entirely by himself in that brawl. And it's not like this is inconsistent either, as the Imposter never actually loses a clean fight. He was beating the snot out of Tigerheart until he got distracted by Squirrelflight and hit by a cheap shot, and even after being wounded badly in the battle, it still took the effort of a full three deputies to pin him down. He also easily defeats Rootspring and Squirrelflight in a row. Bramblestar has never done anything remotely like that by himself. In fact, his record for combat is actually very unimpressive with no real wins aside from cheap shotting Hawkfrost. Maybe it's just because Ashfur has more skills and can put them to use in Bramblestar's larger body, maybe it's because Ashfur is willing to push his body to the breaking point freely, or maybe being possessed strengthened it, but whatever the case, I think it's clear that if you put Ashfur in Bramblestar's body and had him fight Bramblestar, Bramblestar would get the snot kicked out of him That's what I felt too lol. How do you think The Imposter would do against the big 3 of Firestar, Scourge, and Tigerstar?
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Post by vectoring34 on Jan 25, 2022 19:41:30 GMT -5
Spotfur's Rebellion makes it very clear that Ashfur is all kinds of coked up kinds of strong while in Bramblestar's body. He fought FIVE WARRIORS at once and he was holding his own, that's unbelievable. I don't think anyone else in the series has ever managed anything like that. He even managed to kill one of them entirely by himself in that brawl. And it's not like this is inconsistent either, as the Imposter never actually loses a clean fight. He was beating the snot out of Tigerheart until he got distracted by Squirrelflight and hit by a cheap shot, and even after being wounded badly in the battle, it still took the effort of a full three deputies to pin him down. He also easily defeats Rootspring and Squirrelflight in a row. Bramblestar has never done anything remotely like that by himself. In fact, his record for combat is actually very unimpressive with no real wins aside from cheap shotting Hawkfrost. Maybe it's just because Ashfur has more skills and can put them to use in Bramblestar's larger body, maybe it's because Ashfur is willing to push his body to the breaking point freely, or maybe being possessed strengthened it, but whatever the case, I think it's clear that if you put Ashfur in Bramblestar's body and had him fight Bramblestar, Bramblestar would get the snot kicked out of him That's what I felt too lol. How do you think The Imposter would do against the big 3 of Firestar, Scourge, and Tigerstar? Ashfur's mindset matters a lot. When he fought off Spotfur's squad, we saw him dodging and parrying a lot. Later on though, he fights like a berserker who doesn't care about his injuries. In some senses, the latter makes him more dangerous because he won't stop if he's hurt, but it's worse for fighting someone like Scourge who can inflict a fatal blow in an instant if he's given an inch. If on the other hand, Ashfur is fighting with a relatively cool head, then I think he can defeat Scourge. He just needs to fight smart and not go ape on Scourge. The problem is, of course, Ashfur is incredibly volatile and easy to rile. The saving grace is that Scourge isn't much of a trashtalker nor does he know anything personally about Ashfur. So as the Impostor, a cool-headed Ashfur can defeat Scourge, I think. His combination of dodging plus powerful counterattacks make him sort of well-suited for fighting someone like Scourge, who has powerful attacks but isn't the best on defense. A berserk Imposter though, basically runs himself through on Scourge's claws when he tries to rely on sheer tankiness. Firestar is a bit of a different problem. Firestar DOES know exactly how to push Ashfur's buttons, and we see him do this when he coaches Rootspring. Insult Ashfur and hit him where it hurts, his bruised ego, and he'll start fighting sloppy and stupid. And Firestar is strong enough to take advantage of that. Moreover, Firestar is ALSO good defensively, and we know he likes to bait opponents. I can see him provoking Ashfur and taunting him until Ashfur freaks out and goes wild enough to leave an opening for Firestar to exploit. If you mean a good, clean fight with Firestar not making the Imposter cry, then I think they're roughly even as both are very skilled when fighting defensively and fight with similar styles. Tigerstar maybe can taunt Ashfur? It's unclear how much he knows about him, assuming this is Dark Forest Tigerstar so him at the peak of his abilities. If he can taunt him, then things go a bit better for him. Berserker Imposter fights with straight forward force and Tigerstar definitely doesn't lack in that, so if it comes down to them going wild on each other toe to toe, I think Tigerstar can win. He is very strong and even the Imposter I don't think can overpower him necessarily in a head to head grappling match. It would be close though, the Imposter doesn't react much to pain and Tigerstar doesn't have many instantly disabling moves. In a clean fight, the Imposter can fight like Firestar which is a way we know can defeat Tigerstar, but he's not as agile as Firestar, so I think Tigerstar has much better chances of beating the Imposter than he does of beating Firestar. The counter attacks are strong, but the Imposter isn't as fast as to be able to force reactions from Tigerstar in the same way. Tigerstar still doesn't do well against that kind of style, but he is tanky and strong, and can avoid being killed since the Imposter isn't quick enough to pierce his defenses at first. TL;DR: On a good day, the Imposter can match Firestar. On a bad day, he's like Tigerstar but a little weaker (though he has the neat quirk of being resistant to pain).
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Post by Cheetahstar on Jan 25, 2022 19:49:35 GMT -5
I think
Ashfur was willing to push the body to limits that shouldnt be pushed
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Post by *Ottersplash* on Jan 25, 2022 20:16:16 GMT -5
Spotfur's Rebellion makes it very clear that Ashfur is all kinds of coked up kinds of strong while in Bramblestar's body. He fought FIVE WARRIORS at once and he was holding his own, that's unbelievable. I don't think anyone else in the series has ever managed anything like that. He even managed to kill one of them entirely by himself in that brawl. And it's not like this is inconsistent either, as the Imposter never actually loses a clean fight. He was beating the snot out of Tigerheart until he got distracted by Squirrelflight and hit by a cheap shot, and even after being wounded badly in the battle, it still took the effort of a full three deputies to pin him down. He also easily defeats Rootspring and Squirrelflight in a row. Bramblestar has never done anything remotely like that by himself. In fact, his record for combat is actually very unimpressive with no real wins aside from cheap shotting Hawkfrost. Maybe it's just because Ashfur has more skills and can put them to use in Bramblestar's larger body, maybe it's because Ashfur is willing to push his body to the breaking point freely, or maybe being possessed strengthened it, but whatever the case, I think it's clear that if you put Ashfur in Bramblestar's body and had him fight Bramblestar, Bramblestar would get the snot kicked out of him I think he pushed it, but I also feel like he's willing to do terrible things and cheap shots that Bramble would never do. People can say what they want about Bramblestar, but I've never felt like he's a cat who actually wants to hurt people. Ashfur doesn't have pesky morals holding him back, so he's going to use Bramble's size to body others
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Post by vectoring34 on Jan 25, 2022 20:21:05 GMT -5
Spotfur's Rebellion makes it very clear that Ashfur is all kinds of coked up kinds of strong while in Bramblestar's body. He fought FIVE WARRIORS at once and he was holding his own, that's unbelievable. I don't think anyone else in the series has ever managed anything like that. He even managed to kill one of them entirely by himself in that brawl. And it's not like this is inconsistent either, as the Imposter never actually loses a clean fight. He was beating the snot out of Tigerheart until he got distracted by Squirrelflight and hit by a cheap shot, and even after being wounded badly in the battle, it still took the effort of a full three deputies to pin him down. He also easily defeats Rootspring and Squirrelflight in a row. Bramblestar has never done anything remotely like that by himself. In fact, his record for combat is actually very unimpressive with no real wins aside from cheap shotting Hawkfrost. Maybe it's just because Ashfur has more skills and can put them to use in Bramblestar's larger body, maybe it's because Ashfur is willing to push his body to the breaking point freely, or maybe being possessed strengthened it, but whatever the case, I think it's clear that if you put Ashfur in Bramblestar's body and had him fight Bramblestar, Bramblestar would get the snot kicked out of him I think he pushed it, but I also feel like he's willing to do terrible things and cheap shots that Bramble would never do. People can say what they want about Bramblestar, but I've never felt like he's a cat who actually wants to hurt people. Ashfur doesn't have pesky morals holding him back, so he's going to use Bramble's size to body others That's true, Ashfur's mindset is helpful in that regard in terms of deadliness. He's meaner. It's also his weakness though, with how easy it is to get under his skin.
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Post by *Ottersplash* on Jan 25, 2022 20:28:10 GMT -5
I think he pushed it, but I also feel like he's willing to do terrible things and cheap shots that Bramble would never do. People can say what they want about Bramblestar, but I've never felt like he's a cat who actually wants to hurt people. Ashfur doesn't have pesky morals holding him back, so he's going to use Bramble's size to body others That's true, Ashfur's mindset is helpful in that regard in terms of deadliness. He's meaner. It's also his weakness though, with how easy it is to get under his skin. Ironically, Bramblestar's weakness is probably being too nice. They are actually a really interesting contrast to each other when you think about it. Bramblestar came from questionable origins given his dad was the big baddy, but he's generally a pretty gentle and sensitive cat. And then there's Ashfur, who had Brindleface as a mom and Whitestorm as a dad (a deputy), and he turns around and is mean and morally corrupt (unlike his sister and adopted brother). Their personalities and backgrounds play well off of each other
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Post by Spinestar on Jan 25, 2022 21:58:58 GMT -5
Spotfur's Rebellion makes it very clear that Ashfur is all kinds of coked up kinds of strong while in Bramblestar's body. He fought FIVE WARRIORS at once and he was holding his own, that's unbelievable. I don't think anyone else in the series has ever managed anything like that. He even managed to kill one of them entirely by himself in that brawl. And it's not like this is inconsistent either, as the Imposter never actually loses a clean fight. He was beating the snot out of Tigerheart until he got distracted by Squirrelflight and hit by a cheap shot, and even after being wounded badly in the battle, it still took the effort of a full three deputies to pin him down. He also easily defeats Rootspring and Squirrelflight in a row. Bramblestar has never done anything remotely like that by himself. In fact, his record for combat is actually very unimpressive with no real wins aside from cheap shotting Hawkfrost. Maybe it's just because Ashfur has more skills and can put them to use in Bramblestar's larger body, maybe it's because Ashfur is willing to push his body to the breaking point freely, or maybe being possessed strengthened it, but whatever the case, I think it's clear that if you put Ashfur in Bramblestar's body and had him fight Bramblestar, Bramblestar would get the snot kicked out of him Ashfur would indeed defeat Bramblestar in a 1 v 1
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