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Post by flamingstar on Jan 23, 2022 15:36:36 GMT -5
Ok so here’s what I’ve noticed that really bugs me So let’s say some cat was leader the likelihood of them picking a close family member to be there Deputy is very high and then there the common thing of oh well there probably already related to the med cat so now you have the three highest roles in the clan belonging to one family And this has become way more common recently although I’m pretty sure it was always kinda like that Examples: Bramble his mate as deputy squirrel flight And there son alder Heart as med cat along with squirrels nephew jay feather Or when fire was leader and his son in law was deputy bramble claw and his daughter and grandson where med cats (leaf and jay) Or in river with misty as leader and her son as deputy or when crooked was leader and his brother was deputy oak heart There’s way more ex of this but here’s just a few
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Jan 23, 2022 16:09:09 GMT -5
firekin, tigerkin, and to an extent bluekin (misty and her son reed r in power) is nepotism basically
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Post by Skypaw13 on Jan 23, 2022 17:37:27 GMT -5
In the first book of Po3, Jaykit, Lionkit, and Hollykit are basically two princes and a princess, and this is pointed out a few times. So yeah, they kinda do.
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Post by Saint Ambrosef on Jan 23, 2022 20:08:35 GMT -5
Code of the Clans, although potentially not canon anymore, suggested that the rule about the deputy becoming leader was implemented because the position was inherited by an appointed successor, typically members of the same family (e.g. the son of the current leader).
That would make for a really cool era of the clans to explore. Royal lineages in the clans!! But I think DOTC retconned it.
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Post by tema on Jan 23, 2022 20:46:40 GMT -5
The seeming nepotism of current ThunderClan was outright pointed out within Graystripe's super edition near the beginning of the book. I won't go into too much detail, but the idea of one family consolidating power within the Clan isn't that great due to how personal the Clans tend to be (there's only a couple dozen cats at max; trying to have a few lord over them seems arbitrary).
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2022 19:02:13 GMT -5
I think they should change the warrior code so that leaders can't appoint immediate family members (mate, parents, siblings, kits) as deputy
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Post by Saint Ambrosef on Jan 24, 2022 19:06:48 GMT -5
I think they should change the warrior code so that leaders can't appoint immediate family members (mate, parents, siblings, kits) as deputy I would agree, except that sometimes a family member is legitimately the best person for the job and would be the most popular choice.
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Post by flamingstar on Jan 25, 2022 0:09:25 GMT -5
I think they should change the warrior code so that leaders can't appoint immediate family members (mate, parents, siblings, kits) as deputy I agree although there should be room for exceptions
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Post by flamingstar on Jan 25, 2022 0:14:45 GMT -5
Also the whole thing with someone being leader and then there descendants being leader Like bramblestar having practically a royal linage His father being leader and grandfather and great grandfather
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Jan 25, 2022 0:40:17 GMT -5
I think the word you're looking for is hereditary or nepotism. According to CotC, this was actually a thing before succession was determined on whoever is deputy at the time, though it's not like it's never been addressed, so there's that, at least. I'm not really all that bothered by it, especially since in, say, ThunderClan, there's really only so many characters we get to know who aren't related to Firestar.
As for the medicine cats, that's more on StarClan.
From a meta level, it's pretty clear that the Erins are following a pretty popular trend in media in which a franchise will follow a single bloodline and have only just recently begun to branch out when it comes to the main series. Whether it works or not is a different story.
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Post by ivysaur on Jan 25, 2022 0:49:51 GMT -5
There is definitely a lot of nepotism in warriors. People like to point out Firekin but I think Tigerkin is the worst case. Oakstar, Pinestar, Tigerstar 1, Hawkfrost, Mothwing, Bramblestar, Tawnypelt, Flametail, Alderheart, Tigerstar 2, Shadowsight - all of them have been high positions of leader, deputy, medicine cat.
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Post by flamingstar on Jan 25, 2022 9:16:03 GMT -5
There is definitely a lot of nepotism in warriors. People like to point out Firekin but I think Tigerkin is the worst case. Oakstar, Pinestar, Tigerstar 1, Hawkfrost, Mothwing, Bramblestar, Tawnypelt, Flametail, Alderheart, Tigerstar 2, Shadowsight - all of them have been high positions of leader, deputy, medicine cat. I agree not to mention who they mated with squirrelflight and rowanstar both being good examples
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Post by vectoring34 on Jan 25, 2022 13:16:18 GMT -5
There is definitely a lot of nepotism in warriors. People like to point out Firekin but I think Tigerkin is the worst case. Oakstar, Pinestar, Tigerstar 1, Hawkfrost, Mothwing, Bramblestar, Tawnypelt, Flametail, Alderheart, Tigerstar 2, Shadowsight - all of them have been high positions of leader, deputy, medicine cat. Most of those are independent though. Tigerstar became leader of Shadowclan and proceeded to die as a failed tyrant, he did absolutely nothing for his bloodline aside from bring Tawnypelt to Shadowclan. Hawkfrost was deputized in an emergency but no one knew he was Tigerstar's son at the time, same thing for Mothwing, so for them it has absolutely nothing to do with it. Brambleclaw was deputized in Thunderclan, which wasn't influenced by Tigerstar for obvious reasons, and moreover he was also tapped BEFORE he and Squirrelflight ended up back together publicly, so it wasn't even nepotism on the Firekin side. Tawnypelt and Tigerheart were deputized but they were also literally the only cats who stayed loyal to Rowanstar, he's in a bit of a pickle there as far as good options. Shadowsight was infected by Ashfur and tricked into seeming like he had spiritual talents which should have made him a good medicine cat, but in reality of course, he didn't. Basically, what I'm saying is this is all meta-level rather than in-universe. The only cases you've pointed out here that could be considered nepotism are Oakstar, Alderheart, and Flametail, and Alderheart is debatable seeing how he was only shoved into the medicine cat role due to being terrible at everything else.
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Post by jujiaanne on Jan 25, 2022 16:18:33 GMT -5
conversations about families dominating deputy and leader ranks is something that i feel does account to nepotism in warrior cats, resulting in a "royal family" bloodline, raggedstar making brokenstar his deputy was an entire story arc that centered around his favouritism for his son, we've seen nepotism played out in warrior cats, tigerstar aswell wanted his sons to succeed as leaders of their clans.
but i have to argue the idea that a leader or deputy having a close relative be a medicine cat is also a ramification of nepotism in warrior cats, because despite medicine cats, yes being very respected and recognised in warrior cat society, they are not appointed and adopted into the role. excluding modern thunderclan with cats like jayfeather and alderheart, alongside any cats that are pushed into becoming medicine cats. it's implied that they choose to explore this path by their own ambitions, willowshine is a memorable and super wholesome example we actually see fledge through leafpools perspective when she is a kit and does all she can to help mothwing when riverclan was poisoned in the second arc. this isnt to say that characters cant be coerced into medicine cats to strengthen a bloodlines power over a clan, but that it isnt something that warriors feels like it'll explore. and to mention quickly, the medicine cat code recites that medicine cats are outside of clan and clan rivalries. medicine cats live outside of the societal tower.
also i brought up tigerstar wanting his sons to be leaders and i reckon i might aswell touch on the fact that it confuses people sometimes that he didnt walk in his daughters dreams. this is explained in the books pretty hastily on mothwings behalf, but we see a short conversation between tawnypelt and brambleclaw where they meet in the dark forest, tawnypelt is heading away from the clearing and tells her brother not to place his trust or associate further with tigerstar, this scene really heavily implies that tawnypelt refuses tigerstar and breaks away from him, which explains why she doesnt train in the dark forest with her brothers. mothwing is a more subjective narrative, it can either be argued that with her lack of faith, tigerstar could never manage to reach her, which is entirely likely, but in the books tigerstar pokes at mothwing for becoming a medicine cat, he says that shes wasting her talents, i feel like this situation can be read as tigerstar not wanting to reach out to her, he seems to have a rooted disfavour of medicine cats, because he similarly says that hollyleaf was wasting her talents as a medicine cat and was being foolish. tigerstar doesn't value medicine cats, so it would make sense that he would furiously block all of mothwing and hollyleafs social media accounts and never talk to them again.
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