#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Mudclaw
Jan 18, 2022 23:10:10 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Jan 18, 2022 23:10:10 GMT -5
hmm, i guess im thinking of something else. i could have sworn Onestar whispered something like “thanks firestar” after Firestar turned down some public offer or another. He did. It's right after Firestar turns down the territory at the Gathering.
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Mudclaw
Jan 19, 2022 2:49:35 GMT -5
Post by 𝐛𝐥𝟒𝐜𝐤𝐬𝐨𝐥 on Jan 19, 2022 2:49:35 GMT -5
What I don't like about Moonblazer's post is that they directly say that my side of the debate says that we think Mudclaw attacking his Clanmates and attempting to kill Onewhisker was fine. We do not, and we never implied that (and no, I might not be speaking for everyone, but I can assure you that enough people do heavily disagree with his decision to plan an attack on his Clanmates so he could claim leadership again). It's not the fact that he is denied leadership (he had the right to be upset about that for an amount of time of course), but it's the situation. It does seem like Firestar and Onewhisker plotted against him. It doesn't excuse the fact that he led a rebellion, but having a rare situation as an example for what his leadership would have been like just doesn't sit right with me. Then I’m not referring to you. I’m referring to the hardcore Mudclaw stans I keep seeing that do exactly what I said. Because I’ve seen it and it’s aggravating to see his actions being brushed under the rug in this fandom. You may not do it, but others have. I personally cannot see Mudclaw being even remotely better or a good leader in general if he can resort so easily to such violence the second something does not go his way. It doesn’t matter who was chosen, or how that other choice ended up, Mudclaw proved countless times even before he was removed from deputyhood that he was breaking codes, ignoring the advice of his clanmates, leading them into dangerous situations and allowing himself to be swayed like a fool. I also have big issues with Blackstar and dislike his leadership too, so both he and Mudclaw get my ire. I’m not saying Mudclaw has 0 right to be upset about what happened, I would be furious too, but I can tell from his response that the second he was made leader and something didn’t go his way, he’d be capable of some awful things. It’s his flaws and pride and ego that make him an interesting character, but also just as bad, if not worse a leader than Onestar if we’re going by one’s deeds. All I can do is agree to disagree at this point, but I do apologize if you felt my post was directed at you. It wasn’t intended to be. It's okay. It wasn't very clear who exactly the post was directed to, so I assumed just Mudclaw fans in general. If you have big issues with Blackstar's leadership, then I can't argue with you. I think his leadership is fine (even though his actions beforehand were absolutely horrendous), and that is why I argue Mudclaw would be like Blackstar, but if you have a problem with Blackstar, I can understand why you disagree with my side. You're right, the best we can do is agree to disagree.
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Mudclaw
Jan 19, 2022 10:20:08 GMT -5
Post by Saint Ambrosef on Jan 19, 2022 10:20:08 GMT -5
hmm, i guess im thinking of something else. i could have sworn Onestar whispered something like “thanks firestar” after Firestar turned down some public offer or another. He did. It's right after Firestar turns down the territory at the Gathering. good to know i did not imagine that. i think its brambleclaw who explains why its a smart tactic to squirrelflight from her perspective in Twilight.
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Post by Hollyfall on Jan 19, 2022 16:55:43 GMT -5
Honestly, if Mudclaw cared at all about WindClan, he would have taken up Onewhisker's offer to remain deputy instead of spitting it right back at him and pouting. Mudclaw saw that Onewhisker and Ashfoot were still finding their footing in their new positions, but he talked smack about them, called them both incompetent (even though they had only been the new leadership for...what? a few days?), and didn't help them at all. Mudclaw did have that experience as deputy and several seasons of being a warrior. But again, all he did was pout, talk behind their backs, and conspire with Hawkfrost.
He has a right to be hurt and angry. It was a drastic and shady switch, but Mudclaw's fragile ego was hurt and that was the driving force for his attempted coup and assassination attempts on Onewhisker and Ashfoot. He really wouldn't have been a good leader if that's how he responded.
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