|
Asexual
#07B04C
star_black.png
Name Colour
Ṣanɗypaw™
The Shiny User
🎵Guess that's just the way it goes, easy come, easy go🎵
|
Post by Ṣanɗypaw™ on Jan 15, 2022 18:07:01 GMT -5
Probably not.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2022 18:07:42 GMT -5
i believe he did it for the drama and he got the drama. was probably having the time of his afterlife watching onestar crash and burn
(to clarify, this is a joke. kind of.)
|
|
|
Post by 𝐛𝐥𝟒𝐜𝐤𝐬𝐨𝐥 on Jan 15, 2022 18:08:18 GMT -5
I think he did start to regret it when he saw the effects it had on Mudclaw and how Onestar treated the other Clans after getting his nine lives.
|
|
|
Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Jan 15, 2022 18:12:50 GMT -5
i would hope so...i hate tallstar for the sole reason he screwed windclan over by picking stupid onewhisker over mudclaw...
|
|
|
Post by cable on Jan 15, 2022 20:40:56 GMT -5
no, i dont really think he does. windclan survived and has a new leader so.
i will always stand by mudclaw being the worse option between him and onewhisker, especially after winds of change, and i honestly think mudclaws rebellion had a lot to do with onestars downward spiral. most of it came from his insecurity about his status and position, and nothing would enhance that more than a clanmate literally trying to murder you for leadership.
|
|
|
Post by Saint Ambrosef on Jan 15, 2022 20:57:04 GMT -5
i would hope so...i hate tallstar for the sole reason he screwed windclan over by picking stupid onewhisker over mudclaw... why do you think mudclaw would have been better?
|
|
|
Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Jan 15, 2022 20:59:54 GMT -5
i would hope so...i hate tallstar for the sole reason he screwed windclan over by picking stupid onewhisker over mudclaw... why do you think mudclaw would have been better? i've been preaching mudclaw bias for years. mudclaw has actual leadership experience and confidence. he puts windclan first above all else, which to some people can be a positive since they JUST came back from being exiled by brokenstar. onewhisker was nothing like him and he was compeltely unqualified and skipped deputyship and went straight to leadership in a few seconds. thats against the entire code.
|
|
|
Post by cable on Jan 15, 2022 21:04:15 GMT -5
why do you think mudclaw would have been better? i've been preaching mudclaw bias for years. mudclaw has actual leadership experience and confidence. he puts windclan first above all else, which to some people can be a positive since they JUST came back from being exiled by brokenstar. onewhisker was nothing like him and he was compeltely unqualified and skipped deputyship and went straight to leadership in a few seconds. thats against the entire code. not to well actually but technically onewhisker was deputy for 3.2 minutes before tallstar died so ://// /lh anyways insert the usual counters of “mudclaw tried to murder his own clanmates and was willing to help hawkfrost skip deputyship and become leader by murdering mistyfoot and leopardstar so he has zero moral high ground from the perspective of codebreaking”
|
|
|
Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Jan 15, 2022 21:12:46 GMT -5
i've been preaching mudclaw bias for years. mudclaw has actual leadership experience and confidence. he puts windclan first above all else, which to some people can be a positive since they JUST came back from being exiled by brokenstar. onewhisker was nothing like him and he was compeltely unqualified and skipped deputyship and went straight to leadership in a few seconds. thats against the entire code. not to well actually but technically onewhisker was deputy for 3.2 minutes before tallstar died so ://// /lh anyways insert the usual counters of “mudclaw tried to murder his own clanmates and was willing to help hawkfrost skip deputyship and become leader by murdering mistyfoot and leopardstar so he has zero moral high ground from the perspective of codebreaking” nope. i'll stand by my argument and bias. mudclaw was and always will be the rightful leader. no one and nothing can change my mind. being deputy for a few minutes doesnt mean crap in being an actual leader with experience. onewhisker was invalid from second 1. and also, mudclaw never would have been pushed that far if it weren't for all his work being thrown out. he would have been an aggressive and headstrong leader, yes, but that doesnt mean he'd be AS BAD as people think if he actually became leader. he'd have no reason to attack thunderclan like onestar did in eclipse. onestar only did it because he knew he wasn't fit to be leader, and was pushing blame and his insecutities onto firestar (the guy who peer pressured him into accepting it at tallstars death bed), and thunderclan itself. onestar's attack in eclipse just proves my entire argument that even ONESTAR himself knew he wasnt supposed to be leader back then. not gonna argue any further because i will never change my mind. it's done.
|
|
|
Post by cable on Jan 15, 2022 21:14:45 GMT -5
not to well actually but technically onewhisker was deputy for 3.2 minutes before tallstar died so ://// /lh anyways insert the usual counters of “mudclaw tried to murder his own clanmates and was willing to help hawkfrost skip deputyship and become leader by murdering mistyfoot and leopardstar so he has zero moral high ground from the perspective of codebreaking” being deputy for a few minutes doesnt mean crap in being an actual leader with experience. bestie i was playing with that one :(
|
|
|
Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Jan 15, 2022 22:22:06 GMT -5
Pretty sure there's a short story where he tries to justify his choice changes, and even has the "Whelp what's done is done" approach to it. So no I don't think he regrets it, even if it's a bad choice, he's probably too stubborn to admit it.
|
|
|
Post by crowspirit on Jan 16, 2022 1:31:50 GMT -5
I sure hope he does… I mean, Mudclaw wouldn't have been much better, but Onewhisker wasn't a good choice. At least pick Ashfoot or Tornear. Those are nice guys.
|
|
|
Post by 🔥Firestar🔥 on Jan 16, 2022 4:42:58 GMT -5
I think he regrets both of his options of deputy. Ashfoot or Tornear would have been a better choice.
And in my opinion, Mudclaw would've made a terrible leader. He's petty, arrogant, willing to endanger cats because of his fragile ego and because he can't admit when he's wrong, and reckless because he dosen't think what he's doing when in a leadership role. Willing to start a full on-battle in a peaceful meeting–even getting called out by Onewhisker–almost getting a queen killed on the thunderpath because he can't process the thought of Crowpaw leading, and willing to let his clanmates get murdered just because of Tallstar's decision. Mudclaw was also too prideful to even cooperate with other Clans, even when his own Clan was suffering.
Mudclaw would have started petty border skirmishes just because another clan leader insulted him. When in reality, a leader, while they have a right to be angry, should let it slide from one ear to another and stand their ground peacefully.
|
|
|
Post by Twilight Sparkle on Jan 16, 2022 6:54:10 GMT -5
I don't think Tallstar does. He probably believed at the time he was making the right choice, in ThunderClan's best interest, and who could have predicted the way Onewhisker turned out?
|
|
Aroace
#ffa100
Name Colour
𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑
Villain Enjoyer
Taking a break from the forums because my cat died. Will probably be back mid to late October.
|
Post by 𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑 on Jan 16, 2022 12:53:29 GMT -5
I sure hope so but think not.
There was apparently a short description a while back on the old Warriors App where Onestar fought Tallstar over his decision to appoint him as WindClan deputy and after he had won Tallstar said that he had made the right choice in making him deputy instead of letting Mudlaw take charge. Although a source for this is no longer available.
Here is a summary of this situation from the Warriors Wiki:
"It is mentioned in Onestar's profile that he hated the way some of his Clanmates refused to accept him, though he understood their confusion. He blamed Tallstar, and sought him out in a dream to challenge him. When Tallstar refused to apologize for his decision, Onestar fought him. Onestar won, and Tallstar said that the fight had proved that he had made the right choice. Onestar still bears a scar on his ear from that fight."
|
|
|
Post by Moonblazer on Jan 17, 2022 14:06:07 GMT -5
I don’t think he would. How could anyone have known how any leader would turn out? Even so, I still will always believe Onestar was a better choice than Mudclaw. Sorry, but a cat who is willing to slaughter his own clanmates and allow a Riverclan cat to sway him and make that Riverclan cat deputy does not deserve jack squat. He very clearly cared more about his ego and his hurt pride than trying to actually support his Clan. Cats who think they’re entitled to leadership will always be meh options for me to support.
It’s not Tallstar’s fault that he thought he was making the right choice, and honestly either way it would have been an awful leadership after him because Mudclaw was so easily persuaded that Firestar was some evil enemy of Windclan. Wars and battles still would have been rampant.
|
|
|
Post by cable on Jan 17, 2022 15:57:22 GMT -5
I don’t think he would. How could anyone have known how any leader would turn out? Even so, I still will always believe Onestar was a better choice than Mudclaw. Sorry, but a cat who is willing to slaughter his own clanmates and allow a Riverclan cat to sway him and make that Riverclan cat deputy does not deserve jack squat. He very clearly cared more about his ego and his hurt pride than trying to actually support his Clan. Cats who think they’re entitled to leadership will always be meh options for me to support. It’s not Tallstar’s fault that he thought he was making the right choice, and honestly either way it would have been an awful leadership after him because Mudclaw was so easily persuaded that Firestar was some evil enemy of Windclan. Wars and battles still would have been rampant. tbh the argument that mudclaw would have been completely fine if he hadnt lost leadership or been "pushed" reminds me of the argument that ashfur would be a good mate to squirrelflight if she hadnt broken up with him. both had their early warning signs (people often forget mudclaw literally almost got windclan killed on the thunderpath because he didnt want to listen to crowpaw, a cat with more experience in that situation). if he had that potential, it would have just shown later. its way too optimistic to think something else wouldnt have set him off during nine lives of leadership. he was a time bomb waiting to go off.
|
|
#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
|
Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Jan 17, 2022 16:07:05 GMT -5
This was more or less already covered in a short story and I don't think he does. Or at the very least, he's too proud to allow himself to feel it.
|
|
#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
|
Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Jan 17, 2022 16:22:14 GMT -5
I don’t think he would. How could anyone have known how any leader would turn out? Even so, I still will always believe Onestar was a better choice than Mudclaw. Sorry, but a cat who is willing to slaughter his own clanmates and allow a Riverclan cat to sway him and make that Riverclan cat deputy does not deserve jack squat. He very clearly cared more about his ego and his hurt pride than trying to actually support his Clan. Cats who think they’re entitled to leadership will always be meh options for me to support. It’s not Tallstar’s fault that he thought he was making the right choice, and honestly either way it would have been an awful leadership after him because Mudclaw was so easily persuaded that Firestar was some evil enemy of Windclan. Wars and battles still would have been rampant. tbh the argument that mudclaw would have been completely fine if he hadnt lost leadership or been "pushed" reminds me of the argument that ashfur would be a good mate to squirrelflight if she hadnt broken up with him. both had their early warning signs (people often forget mudclaw literally almost got windclan killed on the thunderpath because he didnt want to listen to crowpaw, a cat with more experience in that situation). if he had that potential, it would have just shown later. its way too optimistic to think something else wouldnt have set him off during nine lives of leadership. he was a time bomb waiting to go off. Yes! All of this! Honestly, whenever the "X wouldn't have done this bad thing if this didn't happen" gets brought up, it just sounds so... I don't know. Scapegoating? Victim blaming? I'm blanking on the word right now, but you get what I mean! It's neither Tallstar or Onestar's fault that Mudclaw reacted so irrationally. Going back to the Crowpaw example, that was very clearly meant to show that he wasn't meant for the job, regardless of how long he had the position for. And even if he was manipulated by Hawkfrost, he still chose to let it go as far as it did. What, was a duel not enough? And don't even get me started on the fox incident! It'd be one thing if his focus had just been on Onestar, but he took it too far by getting other cats involved. The fact that Tornear—his own brother, and one who he was close to—was disgusted by his behavior should say something!
|
|
Cloudstorm
Don’t let it kill you. Even when it hurts like hell.
|
Post by Cloudstorm on Jan 17, 2022 19:12:09 GMT -5
tbh the argument that mudclaw would have been completely fine if he hadnt lost leadership or been "pushed" reminds me of the argument that ashfur would be a good mate to squirrelflight if she hadnt broken up with him. both had their early warning signs (people often forget mudclaw literally almost got windclan killed on the thunderpath because he didnt want to listen to crowpaw, a cat with more experience in that situation). if he had that potential, it would have just shown later. its way too optimistic to think something else wouldnt have set him off during nine lives of leadership. he was a time bomb waiting to go off. Yes! All of this! Honestly, whenever the "X wouldn't have done this bad thing if this didn't happen" gets brought up, it just sounds so... I don't know. Scapegoating? Victim blaming? I'm blanking on the word right now, but you get what I mean! It's neither Tallstar or Onestar's fault that Mudclaw reacted so irrationally. Going back to the Crowpaw example, that was very clearly meant to show that he wasn't meant for the job, regardless of how long he had the position for. And even if he was manipulated by Hawkfrost, he still chose to let it go as far as it did. What, was a duel not enough? And don't even get me started on the fox incident! It'd be one thing if his focus had just been on Onestar, but he took it too far by getting other cats involved. The fact that Tornear—his own brother, and one who he was close to—was disgusted by his behavior should say something! ^ All of this, 100% agree with every word. And I’m most certain the word/phrase you were looking for is fundamental attribution error or correspondence bias. Which is when someone incorrectly or insists that someone’s actions are attributed to situational or circumstantial factors instead of dispositional or personality factors or vice versa, especially when attempting to evade responsibility for a wrongdoing or criminal act. trying to play it off as only occurring because of certain environmental and situational circumstances. When in actuality the predisposition tendency to commit said acts was always prevalent and has always been there waiting to be unleashed. Which is very much true in Mudclaw’s case. And no, Tallstar doesn’t regret his decision, which has been confirmed. And quite honestly why should he? Mudclaw’s bloodthirsty and aggressive disposition would of been very counterproductive and would of lead to many of unnecessary and avoidable conflicts and bloodshed, and if I’m being frank I always thought Onestar did a pretty good job as leader considering the circumstances and the fact he was never one that was aspiring to ever become leader, or exhibited any qualities that would be beneficial to said position, and was basically forced into a position he was ill-equipped for, it’s only befitting there’s going to be drastic changes in his demeanor and persona in order to adapt, and become a strong leader that wasn’t going to be seen as a pushover for Firestar to order around. His leadership from Twilight-OoTS is pretty solid, and personally I never had an issue with him until AVoS , which was when he started crossing the line. And I’m super elated to see what his Super edition does with his character during his leadership, and it’s definitely become my most anticipated Warriors book of 2022 by far.
|
|
|
Post by *Ottersplash* on Jan 17, 2022 22:12:11 GMT -5
I mean, I doubt it. Mudclaw was literally willing to put a Riverclan cat into a place of power to get rid of Onestar.
His only regret is not choosing someone other than Onestar or Mudclaw
|
|
|
Post by cable on Jan 17, 2022 22:28:31 GMT -5
I mean, I doubt it. Mudclaw was literally willing to put a Riverclan cat into a place of power to get rid of Onestar. His only regret is not choosing someone other than Onestar or Mudclaw tallstar when he dies and realizes .2 seconds later in starclan that he could have picked ashfoot
|
|
|
Post by 𝔯𝔞𝔟𝔟𝔦𝔱𝔣𝔯𝔬𝔰𝔱 on Jan 18, 2022 0:40:15 GMT -5
I think in some ways, yes he definitely regrets his decision. But I still think ultimately things would’ve been a lot worse had he left Mudclaw in charge. Onestar was awful, but Mudclaw likely would’ve been so much worse. So ultimately I don’t think he regrets it, but it’s definitely not his finest moment either.
|
|
Heterosexual
Spinestar
Got The Ashfur Tattoo!
|
Post by Spinestar on Jan 18, 2022 9:43:33 GMT -5
I think in some ways, yes he definitely regrets his decision. But I still think ultimately things would’ve been a lot worse had he left Mudclaw in charge. Onestar was awful, but Mudclaw likely would’ve been so much worse. So ultimately I don’t think he regrets it, but it’s definitely not his finest moment either. Mudclaw would not have tried to drive ThunderClan out for no reason and would never have deprived an entire Clan of herbs. He would have been a better leader than Onestar
|
|
|
Post by Moonblazer on Jan 18, 2022 9:56:33 GMT -5
I think in some ways, yes he definitely regrets his decision. But I still think ultimately things would’ve been a lot worse had he left Mudclaw in charge. Onestar was awful, but Mudclaw likely would’ve been so much worse. So ultimately I don’t think he regrets it, but it’s definitely not his finest moment either. Mudclaw would not have tried to drive ThunderClan out for no reason and would never have deprived an entire Clan of herbs. He would have been a better leader than Onestar But he would have led foxes to camp, plotted deaths of his own clanmates if he thought they were even somewhat an obstacle to his own ego and claim to “rightful” leadership, been persuaded to see other clans as evil and deserving of death by cats like Hawkfrost, would have continued preventing cats from getting to the Moonstone, probably would have attacked another Medicine Cat Apprentice, wouldn’t have listened to cats younger than him who had more experience than him in other situations, would have ran headfirst into dangerous situations like prancing over Thunderpaths when cats could have been ran over. If he’s willing to attack a Medicine Cat Apprentice and thinks Thunderclan is evil, I’m sorry to say that I’m 99.9 percent sure he also would have witheld herbs and would have enjoyed it had it been Thunderclan dying of illness lmao.
|
|
|
Post by Hollyfall on Jan 18, 2022 11:26:18 GMT -5
I think in some ways, yes he definitely regrets his decision. But I still think ultimately things would’ve been a lot worse had he left Mudclaw in charge. Onestar was awful, but Mudclaw likely would’ve been so much worse. So ultimately I don’t think he regrets it, but it’s definitely not his finest moment either. Mudclaw would not have tried to drive ThunderClan out for no reason and would never have deprived an entire Clan of herbs. He would have been a better leader than Onestar Mudclaw was willing to lead a coup and kill Onewhisker and Ashfoot based on false accusations, conspiracy theories, and because his ego was hurt. He was willing to let foxes kill them and possibly endanger more Clanmates. If he was fine with letting that happen to his own Clanmates, I'm pretty sure he'd be fine with leading an unprovoked attack on ThunderClan and letting ShadowClan suffer. Onestar was a pretty bad leader, but judging off what we see of his deputyship and Mudclaw's own words and actions, he really isn't that much better; he's honestly worse imo.
|
|
|
Post by 🔥Firestar🔥 on Jan 18, 2022 13:45:26 GMT -5
I think in some ways, yes he definitely regrets his decision. But I still think ultimately things would’ve been a lot worse had he left Mudclaw in charge. Onestar was awful, but Mudclaw likely would’ve been so much worse. So ultimately I don’t think he regrets it, but it’s definitely not his finest moment either. Mudclaw would not have tried to drive ThunderClan out for no reason and would never have deprived an entire Clan of herbs. He would have been a better leader than Onestar I disagree. Mudclaw would have started a lot of battles if he was a leader. He's been shown through the series to be reckless (Almost getting an elder and a queen hit by a monster on the thunderpath), wanting to attack for no reason (Trying to attack when Tallstar and Bluestar met, and having to be held down by Onewhisker two times, attacking a medicine cat apprentice and not giving them a chance to explain, and even denying path to the Moonstone to a leader). If he was leader, all this recklesness would just get worse imo.
|
|
|
Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Jan 18, 2022 14:03:33 GMT -5
I don’t think he would. How could anyone have known how any leader would turn out? Even so, I still will always believe Onestar was a better choice than Mudclaw. Sorry, but a cat who is willing to slaughter his own clanmates and allow a Riverclan cat to sway him and make that Riverclan cat deputy does not deserve jack squat. He very clearly cared more about his ego and his hurt pride than trying to actually support his Clan. Cats who think they’re entitled to leadership will always be meh options for me to support. It’s not Tallstar’s fault that he thought he was making the right choice, and honestly either way it would have been an awful leadership after him because Mudclaw was so easily persuaded that Firestar was some evil enemy of Windclan. Wars and battles still would have been rampant. tbh the argument that mudclaw would have been completely fine if he hadnt lost leadership or been "pushed" reminds me of the argument that ashfur would be a good mate to squirrelflight if she hadnt broken up with him. both had their early warning signs (people often forget mudclaw literally almost got windclan killed on the thunderpath because he didnt want to listen to crowpaw, a cat with more experience in that situation). if he had that potential, it would have just shown later. its way too optimistic to think something else wouldnt have set him off during nine lives of leadership. he was a time bomb waiting to go off. Mudclaw isn't perfect though? Did people expect him to be an exceptionally perfect leader period? At the end of the day, he still had the training necessary to be leader, compared to Onestar who had none whatsoever. Onestar was chosen based on bias, which is ironic now since he burned the bridge between him and Firestar, despite everything Firestar did for him. It has been confirmed over and over again that Onestar was a spineless coward who never wanted to be leader but still went through with it out of pressure, and then ironically turned out to be a horrible one at that. I fail to see how it's comparable to Ashfur, especially when the Erins already confirmed that Ashfur wasn't chosen for any particular reason for that love drama plot. It could have easily been any other character. We never got to see Mudclaw as a leader, but as a deputy he was decent, and still had the credentials and respect of his own clanmates. The only reason fans thought Onestar was the better option back then was because Mudclaw wasn't the "meek kind friend" that relied on Firestar, the protagonist, all the time. But at the same time it also makes sense why others wouldn't favor Onestar over Mudclaw either, especially after finding out that Onestar has been unloyal to WindClan since he was a warrior, even before the deputy situation. Does Tallstar regret his choice? Probably not, even after Onestar attacked him in his dream. But it also doesn't mean he made the right choice either, I still personally believe that the clans would have been better off with Mudclaw over Onestar. Both as an individual clan and for the sake of the other clans, especially since Onestar isn't above leaving another clan to die out for no other reason than to be selfish.
|
|
|
Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Jan 18, 2022 14:13:26 GMT -5
Mudclaw would not have tried to drive ThunderClan out for no reason and would never have deprived an entire Clan of herbs. He would have been a better leader than Onestar I disagree. Mudclaw would have started a lot of battles if he was a leader. He's been shown through the series to be reckless (Almost getting an elder and a queen hit by a monster on the thunderpath), wanting to attack for no reason (Trying to attack when Tallstar and Bluestar met, and having to be held down by Onewhisker two times, attacking a medicine cat apprentice and not giving them a chance to explain, and even denying path to the Moonstone to a leader). If he was leader, all this recklesness would just get worse imo. There are plenty of other situations where other deputies, and even leaders, have been shown to be reckless and make reckless decisions, but the fandom still praises them as good characters in their positions. There's even cats that have committed henious crimes but still get rewarded with positions they really don't deserve. Also Mudclaw has been shown to be quite cooperative in some cases, he wasn't above requesting help from other clans, respecting territories, one time he even defends Onestar so WindClan didn't look weak in front of other clans. Mudclaw has reasonable reasons for some of his actions to be honest too, like the Moonstone incident with Bluestar. WindClan still held a grudge against her and ThunderClan for sheltering and defending a tyrannical murderer that drove out their entire clan and killed many of his clanmates, it's understandable for him to not trust her in the least. Mudclaw isn't sunshines and rainbows, but he also had realistic reactions to certain situations, but people always held every cat to Onewhisker or Firestar standards back then. Mudclaw is a gray area character, he's not wholesome and sweet, and he's not full on evil like some think he is, he's in the middle line. I think it's fine for people to believe that he would have made an okay leader, if not a better one than Onestar, since there are other leaders who have done worse and still turned out decent.
|
|