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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2022 19:19:08 GMT -5
Saw this very nice video the other day and it reminded me how much I hate this character.
What are your thoughts on Rainflower, her relationship with Crookedstar, etc.? Rainflower stands out as one of the scummiest cats in the series. Yea she didn't murder kids like Brokenstar, but she's still awful. Immediately turns on her son after he suffers a traumatic injury, isolates him, emotionally abuses for the rest of her life, all because he isn't handsome in her eyes. And she didn't even show up at his leader ceremony. It's sad seeing Crooked so desperate for her attention and forgiveness because she basically manipulated him into believing the entire situation was his fault.
Coming back to the vid, while it doesn't excuse Beatrice's actions, her life of deep trauma and heartbreak at least explains her treatment of Bojack and others. Rainflower is just vain and took her hurt pride out on her disabled son. She's gross.
Bonus question: With the appearance of the big Frecklewish thread, do you think Rainflower deserved the DF for her actions?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2022 19:20:38 GMT -5
oh she absolutely deserved the dark forest, no question about it
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2022 19:41:21 GMT -5
I don't think she is a morally good character, but I appreciate her presence in the series. Warriors is full of generically nice, protective queens: Rainflower was a refreshing change from that. It seemed more realistic to have a flawed or abusive parent and I liked watching how that fueled Crookedstar's character arc. An alarming number of parents see their children as extensions of themselves or tools for boosting their own ego.
Whether she belongs in the Dark Forest, I don't know. There are so many conflicting rules about who gets to go into the Dark Forest and who gets to go into Star Clan. If breaking the warrior code is the sole basis for being condemned to the DF, then she probably doesn't deserve it. She emotionally neglected Crookedstar, but she never deprived him of his physical needs. If going to the Dark Forest is more generally based on the morality of a cat's past actions, then maybe.
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Cloudstorm
Donโt let it kill you. Even when it hurts like hell.
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Post by Cloudstorm on Jan 12, 2022 3:07:47 GMT -5
I don't think she is a morally good character, but I appreciate her presence in the series. Warriors is full of generically nice, protective queens: Rainflower was a refreshing change from that. It seemed more realistic to have a flawed or abusive parent and I liked watching how that fueled Crookedstar's character arc. An alarming number of parents see their children as extensions of themselves or tools for boosting their own ego. Whether she belongs in the Dark Forest, I don't know. There are so many conflicting rules about who gets to go into the Dark Forest and who gets to go into Star Clan. If breaking the warrior code is the sole basis for being condemned to the DF, then she probably doesn't deserve it. She emotionally neglected Crookedstar, but she never deprived him of his physical needs. If going to the Dark Forest is more generally based on the morality of a cat's past actions, then maybe. ^ that pretty much summarizes my thoughts on Rainflower. And itโs truly unfortunate that there is an alarmingly high amount of parents that do treat their children basically as an accessory to flaunt about to boost their own egos and reputation, harsh reality indeed. But Iโd also wouldnโt change her, since thatโd reduce the poignant weight that makes Crookedstarโs Promise and his story arc so inspiring to read about, and one of my favorite books in the series. Now far as if she belongs in the Dark Forest. My personal opinion would be no, yes she emotionally neglected Crookedstar, and basically disowned him which was very cruel. Sheโs not actually abusive to him or deprive him of any essential needs Besides the aforementioned. Yes, she may be petty, vain and superficial and allowed her pride get more then the best of her. But overall thatโs not concrete enough reason alone to send her to the Dark Forest. Iโm honestly getting pretty tired of cats being pegged for the Dark Forest over not being morally perfect. And I personally like to think she saw the error of what she did, and apologized and made up with Crookedstar in Starclan. Doesnโt excuse her for putting him through the suffering to begin with, but itโs a comforting thought of mine.
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Asexual
#07B04C
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Name Colour
แนขanษypawโข
The Shiny User
๐ตGuess that's just the way it goes, easy come, easy go๐ต
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Post by แนขanษypawโข on Jan 12, 2022 18:29:29 GMT -5
That clip made me tear up, I didn't think that would happen. I wish that Rainflower was sent to the DF for sure, there is no place in StarClan for her especially since there was no "redemption scene" that I can think of.
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Post by *โข.ยธโก๐ฅ๐ข๐ธ๐ฏ๐ณ๐ฐ๐ด๐ฆโกยธ.โข* on Jan 12, 2022 18:39:05 GMT -5
I haven't read CP yet but Rainflower seems like a bad person honestly, with how the DF works nowadays she probably should've gone there. She's not the worst cat ever but if we're going off of canon I think she would belong there. Also, I can only hear Eda from The Owl House while listening to this clip and hearing her voice say these things is painful.
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Post by *Ottersplash* on Jan 13, 2022 17:12:27 GMT -5
Frecklewish watched kittens dying.
I think Rainflower is a bad cat, but I'm not sure DF worthy. Maybe a limbo? Shellheart says she regretted her actions but was too ashamed to face Crookedstar. I wish we got more of her in Starclan, where she's been able to reflect? There was a good video analyzing what might be the psychology behind Rainflower's actions - it wasn't an excuse for her, but it was good in understanding her thought process.
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Post by ๐ฃ๐ฒ๐ท๐พ๐ฟ๐ฒ๐ฎ๐ต on Jan 13, 2022 17:32:37 GMT -5
Great antagonist, horrible cat.
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Post by ๐ฃ๐ฒ๐ท๐พ๐ฟ๐ฒ๐ฎ๐ต on Jan 13, 2022 17:45:39 GMT -5
Frecklewish watched kittens dying. Shellheart says she regretted her actions but was too ashamed to face Crookedstar. Actually, this is what Shellheart says. Given the wording, I don't think it's actually meant to be taken as Rainflower regretting her actions, just what Shellheart hopes will happen.
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Post by downfalls on Jan 14, 2022 10:41:40 GMT -5
as a person who had an abusive mother i can relate to crookedstar a lot, and rainflower is a very...complex character. as much as i hate her, i think that characters with abuse-based ptsd (such as maybe crookedstar) should be represented more, and that's why i like her presence. she's horrible, and her abuse towards crookedkit is well-written and portrayed so well.
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Post by scarletflames on Jan 14, 2022 12:13:10 GMT -5
It'll be a long time before I can re-read CP, because of Rainflower triggering me really badly when I read it. My mom was abusive, and her abuse (in Warrior Cats terms) was more like Rainflower, than Lizardstripe (Rainflower was severely psychologically and emotionally abusive to Crookedstar, and emotionally neglectful too, while Lizardstripe was emotionally abusive and neglectful, but in addition, was physically abusive and physically neglectful towards Brokenkit)
It was very painful to read how Rainflower Scapegoated Crookedstar and made Oakheart the Golden Child, which is sadly common in abusive family systems that has siblings, to have a Scapegoat, Golden Child, Invisible Child, etc. I've been forced into the Scapegoat, and Golden Child role, so that abusive dynamic in CP really hit me hard.
I also believe that by making Oakheart the Golden Child, she was technically emotionally neglectful to Oakheart, even though she wasn't emotionally abusive to Oakheart. (Since being forced into the Golden Child role is also unhealthy for child development, and Rainflower only made him the Golden Child because he wasn't disabled, so she didn't really see or appreciate Oakheart's good qualities, just liked his physical appearance more than Crookedstar's.)
Rainflower is more triggering for me personally, than Lizardstripe, even though I loathe them both. I really wish child abuse was punishable by the Dark Forest, it really angers me that Starclan allowed Rainflower into the DF. I don't remember if Lizardstripe is also in Starclan. Then again, they let Assfur in Starclan, so I guess it's not too surprising they allowed Rainflower into Starclan.
With the Youtube clip, I want to watch Bojack one day, but I have a feeling it will be just as hard for me to watch, as it will be for me when I re-read CP, so I haven't seen the show yet. I want to re-read CP one day, but I need to be in the right headspace, because Rainflower's abuse was so painfully familiar to me.
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Post by ๐ฃ๐ฒ๐ท๐พ๐ฟ๐ฒ๐ฎ๐ต on Jan 14, 2022 13:17:18 GMT -5
Sheโs not actually abusive to him or deprive him of any essential needs. Neglect is a form of abuse.
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Cloudstorm
Donโt let it kill you. Even when it hurts like hell.
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Post by Cloudstorm on Jan 14, 2022 13:18:36 GMT -5
Sheโs not actually abusive to him or deprive him of any essential needs. Neglect is a form of abuse. was referring more to physical abuse, but supposed I didnโt clarify.
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Post by ๐ฑ๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐ on Jan 14, 2022 15:39:30 GMT -5
Rainflower sucks. To the Dark Forest she should have gone.
I already said this on another thread about her but here it is again because why not: Rainflower was a superficial mother who treated her disfigured son like shit and deserves all of the hate she gets for it. She never saw the error of her ways or tried to apologize for her mistreatment of Crookedstar. There is no excuse for her actions and even an explanation of it will not justify her being allowed in StarClan. As someone who grew up with an emotionally (and physically) abusive mother, I will forever get mad and stay mad at this type of (parental) behaviour getting rewarded in any capacity.
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