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Post by 𝐛𝐥𝟒𝐜𝐤𝐬𝐨𝐥 on Dec 24, 2021 9:23:30 GMT -5
I decided to re-read Dovewing's Silence today, bc I always thought of it as a good book and I wanted to be sad about Sorreltail again, but something caught my eye. It was Toadstep's behavior towards the former Dark Forest trainees (mostly Thornclaw, Blossomfall, Mousewhisker and Birchfall. Ivypool was treated way better because her Clan eventually knew she spied for them). It wasn't just the slight hostility Berrynose and Poppyfrost had towards the former trainees. No, what he said was: 'The other Clans have managed to kill most of their traitors. Maybe we should have done the same!'.
He literally suggests that ThunderClan should have killed the former Dark Forest trainees, WHO LITERALLY FOUGHT ON THEIR SIDE ONCE THEY KNEW WHAT THE DARK FOREST REALLY WANTED FROM THEM. I always thought of Toadstep as this nice dude who looked up to Lionblaze, but honestly, I'm not sad at all he died between Dovewing's Silence and Bramblestar's Storm. That was just too far, and I stan Dovewing for standing up for the trainees.
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Aroace
#ffa100
Name Colour
𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑
Villain Enjoyer
Taking a break from the forums because my cat died. Will probably be back mid to late October.
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Post by 𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑 on Dec 24, 2021 18:40:43 GMT -5
I'm sad he died. Only because he was lovable in PoT and OotS though. The writing team ruined Toadstep in Dovewing's Silence and he deserved so much better than that!
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Post by 𝐛𝐥𝟒𝐜𝐤𝐬𝐨𝐥 on Dec 25, 2021 3:48:22 GMT -5
I'm sad he died. Only because he was lovable in PoT and OotS though. The writing team ruined Toadstep in Dovewing's Silence and he deserved so much better than that! Agreed. Couldn't they make Berrynose say that or something? We already know Berrynose is kinda mean, but they just ruined Toadstep.
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Aroace
#ffa100
Name Colour
𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑
Villain Enjoyer
Taking a break from the forums because my cat died. Will probably be back mid to late October.
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Post by 𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑 on Dec 25, 2021 7:27:14 GMT -5
I'm sad he died. Only because he was lovable in PoT and OotS though. The writing team ruined Toadstep in Dovewing's Silence and he deserved so much better than that! Agreed. Couldn't they make Berrynose say that or something? We already know Berrynose is kinda mean, but they just ruined Toadstep. I 100% agree! Berrynose was also among the cats who were behaving hostile towards the former DF trainees in Dovewing's Silence anyways so they could have easily given Toadstep's lines to him instead. It's such a shame!
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Post by Saint Ambrosef on Dec 25, 2021 12:16:54 GMT -5
i dont think one mean line ruins the whole character
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Aroace
#ffa100
Name Colour
𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑
Villain Enjoyer
Taking a break from the forums because my cat died. Will probably be back mid to late October.
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Post by 𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑 on Dec 25, 2021 14:37:17 GMT -5
i dont think one mean line ruins the whole character True. But it also doesn't help when that is the last thing that character is known for and states in that book ( Dovewing's Silence) before only further getting mentioned to get sick and then to have died off-screen/in between that one and the next one ( Bramblestar's Storm). All of the other cats who voiced concerns and doubts in regards to the DF trainees received the chance to change their minds on this topic mostly on-screen. Even Berrynose. But Toadstep never got a proper reaction to seeing the Clanmates he regarded as traitors prove themselves trustworthy again. He was too busy being written off as already showing signs of his deadly sickness.
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Post by 𝐛𝐥𝟒𝐜𝐤𝐬𝐨𝐥 on Dec 26, 2021 6:13:53 GMT -5
i dont think one mean line ruins the whole character He acted like a douchebag in the entire book. He was just way different than in Omen of the Stars, and that is what bothers me. Also, a line in which he implies that 'you know, maybe we should have killed our Clanmates who trained in the Dark Forest but still fought on our side ' has a pretty big impact on his character and who he is. I'm just disappointed because they could have let Berrynose say it or something.
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Post by 𝐛𝐥𝟒𝐜𝐤𝐬𝐨𝐥 on Dec 26, 2021 6:17:50 GMT -5
I Wouldn’t consider 1 hostile line as grounds for a great character to immediately crumble away into ruins, plus he wasn’t the only one weary and thinking along those lines after the Great battle, he just happened to be of the few that voiced their opinions out loud, and it isn’t exactly unwarranted, even though Toadstep probably doesn’t comprehend the depth behind the disloyalty of siding with the Dark Forest, since he and many others weren’t around during the reign of Brokenstar or Tigerstar. But after witnessing all the death and destruction they’ve caused, they have reason to feel distrustful towards those who joined them. Still not a reason for saying that they should have killed their Clanmates who still fought on their side. But yeah, I made this thread mostly out of disappointment and I'm just irrated that they made Toadstep so different in Dovewing's Silence.
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Cloudstorm
Don’t let it kill you. Even when it hurts like hell.
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Post by Cloudstorm on Dec 26, 2021 12:28:47 GMT -5
I Wouldn’t consider 1 hostile line as grounds for a great character to immediately crumble away into ruins, plus he wasn’t the only one weary and thinking along those lines after the Great battle, he just happened to be of the few that voiced their opinions out loud, and it isn’t exactly unwarranted, even though Toadstep probably doesn’t comprehend the depth behind the disloyalty of siding with the Dark Forest, since he and many others weren’t around during the reign of Brokenstar or Tigerstar. But after witnessing all the death and destruction they’ve caused, they have reason to feel distrustful towards those who joined them. Still not a reason for saying that they should have killed their Clanmates who still fought on their side. But yeah, I made this thread mostly out of disappointment and I'm just irrated that they made Toadstep so different in Dovewing's Silence. that’s fairly common when it comes to Victoria Holmes writing, characters feeling somewhat inconsistent at times. However, when your Clanmates that are supposed to be loyal and there for you to confidently depend on and rely on being there for you against adversity, especially when many are older and potentially considered a role model, or someone you held in high esteem, decides to consort with known criminals willingly for whatever reason, you're going to be justifiably resentful and angered, and feel bitterness. It’s perfectly understandable and quite warranted for them to feel that way, they just got betrayed by whom was supposed to be their own Clanmates, which cuts deep, and quite frankly if no one would of negatively reacted or felt bitter after such an catastrophic event that killed numerous cats and left many devastated, it would of came off incredibly Jarring and eye-raising, and completely siphoned every last ounce of “emotional Reality” out of the narrative, and would of felt forced, stilted, bland and disconnected from the tragedies they’ve just experienced, since it would feel like it didn’t bother or effect then in any capacity, which was why ALiTM was such an underwhelming, flat disappointment to me. Because most of the time the characters that are supposed to be stopping Ashfur’s heinous schemes treat what he’s doing like a damn joke majority of the time, and don’t seem to understand the gravity and seriousness of the situation, when they most certainly shouldn’t realistically be responding in this manner. When characters fail to be emotionally invested or seem to care about what’s happening around them. then your readers start to feel distant, disconnected and don’t feel emotionally invested either, and generally begin to feel indifferent, and rather apathetic about the story their reading and start not giving a shit about it, and move on to something else.
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