Aroace
#ffa100
Name Colour
𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑
Villain Enjoyer
Taking a break from the forums because my cat died. Will probably be back mid to late October.
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Post by 𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑 on Dec 23, 2021 11:27:13 GMT -5
All I'm going to say on this matter is that StarClan currently seems like the worst Clan to me. Even worse than ShadowClan which was my least favorite Clan up until this point. By saying that, I mean them as a whole/as a concept and not each individual cat although some of them certainly don't deserve to be there just like some Dark Forest cats don't/didn't really deserve to be in the Place of No Stars. I liked StarClan back during the first arc where they were more mythical and secretive than what they have become since then though. Perhaps some sort of a limbo could be a better solution than just this black and white judgement thing going on at the moment.
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Cloudstorm
Don’t let it kill you. Even when it hurts like hell.
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Post by Cloudstorm on Dec 23, 2021 12:40:25 GMT -5
Don’t even know why I’m bothering posting this, and quite honestly I find that video to be pretty disrespectful and condescending, even if it’s labeled as just a shitpost.
Anyway, personally I don’t think there’s anything conceptually wrong with Starclan or The Dark Forest, just that how it’s been handled lately with the new team has been marginally agreeable, and Downright pathetic at best most of the times. And the Inconsistent, screwed up mess it’s become has nothing to do with it conceptually, just that the writers can’t distinguish their Heads from their rear-ends anymore it seems.
And my thoughts on a limbo is just no, sounds like an extra Avenue for exploitation and cats undeserving being granted entry to starclan, and generalized chaos taking form. Plus giving their mediocre performance keeping track of the afterlife realms, hardly think adding a 3rd would really solve any problems, since the real issue is just horrible execution/ inconsistent world-building and an inability to consistently write the concepts they do have, and not the concepts being implemented being bad themselves.
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Post by Cheetahstar on Dec 23, 2021 13:02:17 GMT -5
the issue is
the new book legit brings up the idea that cats can change and be better
then just
says 'lol but it doesnt matter'
and it kinda does??
i vote for a limbo too
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Cloudstorm
Don’t let it kill you. Even when it hurts like hell.
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Post by Cloudstorm on Dec 23, 2021 13:27:40 GMT -5
the issue is the new book legit brings up the idea that cats can change and be better then just says 'lol but it doesnt matter' and it kinda does?? i vote for a limbo too the problem being that the question is only raised because of problems the writers themselves created. Overly-biased, busted trial system that never existed beforehand? Boom. Sending Cats to The Dark Forest that were arguably undeserving? Boom. Like i said, the concepts and Ideas behind the spiritual realms isn’t exactly flawed or busted, it’s the wewver behind the wheel deciding how it’s interpreted. Limbo would most likely serve as a Avenue for blackmail, chicanery, manipulation and other exploitative means in order for evil cats to secure passage to Starclan, and arguably the only ones that deserved an extended olive branch for a second chance, are ones that honestly shouldn’t have been placed in The Dark Forest to begin with. Overall i believe it would cause more problems, with being yet another aspect of WC for the writers to juggle, which they can barely handle what they have. And making the in-universe definition of Good and Evil to at much more murky and entangled, and much more difficult to decipher and overall confusing, which it’s bad enough as it is.
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Post by Midnightcacoon loves Sunbeam on Dec 23, 2021 13:37:14 GMT -5
Maybe the boarder between StarClan and The Dark Forest will widen and we’ll get some patches of neutral territory. Honestly that be a cool place to send cats that have judgement trials that last longer than a few days. Such as if the cats are unsure if they’re worthy to enter StarClan, so the cat must stay there until the StC make a decision. With the latest book we’ve seen that StarClan is flawed so how come they still get to decided who goes where in the Afterlife? If they make mistakes they should also be able to fix them.
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Post by Flamefrost on Dec 23, 2021 14:15:29 GMT -5
I quite like the way StarClan is portrayed to be honest, it's a lot more interesting than the characters all becoming perfect. I also like the idea of both planes of existence relying on each other - the way I interpreted the "hope" thing is that StarClan fundamentally relies on faith kind of like Tinkerbell. It would explain why they got so hazy and disconnected in TNP and a lot of other inconsistencies.
It's an unfair system but it feels more interesting. The Clans need to believe and follow their ancestors, and in return the ancestors get the power to protect them and ensure a good afterlife (Rather than the dull purgatory alternative). It's less like the Abrahamic religions and more like more ancient mythologies such as the Aztec and Ancient Greeks.
I do think that there should be a "Medium Place" of sorts, but I question who would end up there and how it would be implemented. If not, maybe they could have a method of "parole" where Dark Forest cats could plead their case.
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Post by Cheetahstar on Dec 23, 2021 14:58:17 GMT -5
the issue is the new book legit brings up the idea that cats can change and be better then just says 'lol but it doesnt matter' and it kinda does?? i vote for a limbo too the problem being that the question is only raised because of problems the writers themselves created. Overly-biased, busted trial system that never existed beforehand? Boom. Sending Cats to The Dark Forest that were arguably undeserving? Boom. Like i said, the concepts and Ideas behind the spiritual realms isn’t exactly flawed or busted, it’s the wewver behind the wheel deciding how it’s interpreted. Limbo would most likely serve as a Avenue for blackmail, chicanery, manipulation and other exploitative means in order for evil cats to secure passage to Starclan, and arguably the only ones that deserved an extended olive branch for a second chance, are ones that honestly shouldn’t have been placed in The Dark Forest to begin with. Overall i believe it would cause more problems, with being yet another aspect of WC for the writers to juggle, which they can barely handle what they have. And making the in-universe definition of Good and Evil to at much more murky and entangled, and much more difficult to decipher and overall confusing, which it’s bad enough as it is.
Limbo would more so be for cats who arent good nor deserving of cat hell.
Like Frecklewish does not deserve starclan imo (neither does Crookedstars mom, or Skystar) but they dont....really deserve the dark forest either? i think it would do a lot of good to add, this way we wouldnt have wars over who goes where xD *gestures to the frecklewish tag*
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Cloudstorm
Don’t let it kill you. Even when it hurts like hell.
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Post by Cloudstorm on Dec 23, 2021 15:26:41 GMT -5
CheetahstarI understand your points. And I don’t have any issue with a either a Black and White, or Black, Gray and White judgement system of determining Good from bad, both are perfectly fine to use in literature. My main issue is how they been flippantly flipping the switch back-and-forth, lack of consistency, pick one or the other, and quit screwing around with it. There’s nothing fundamentally wrong with either, but you can realistically have only one or the other, not be constantly bouncing on the edge between them. In the current state of affairs, could honestly say that a Gray area would have positive effects?? Maybe yes, possibly no, cause Fundamentally with the recent ridiculous changes with that outrageous Trial system makes the Possibility of those that are deserving of the Dark Forest, being sent to limbo, then later getting access into Starclan. A limbo, or in-between is fine and dandy in theory, but without proper implementation and consistency, it will quickly devolve into another mess like what we have now. Simply put “ don’t make more buggy, broken additions without first fixing the present bugs, otherwise the problem will just get exponentially larger” until it eventually implodes, or becomes unsolvable.
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Post by kells on Dec 23, 2021 23:16:06 GMT -5
The more the series continues, the worse StarClan gets. OotS, SqH and TBC really ruined whatever shred of decentness StarClan had. And as much as I hate TBC, I have to give it props for the fact we didn't see them every thirty seconds
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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2021 1:28:35 GMT -5
i hope asc is about the cats all just going “i think starclan might be wrong actually” and in the end, after some starclan-caused tragedy (second in a row after the ashfur situation), starclan agrees to be better.
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