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Post by Chicken on Nov 26, 2021 12:53:07 GMT -5
I had a thread like this previously, but it's probably necro'd at this point, so I decided to make another one. This is just a thread to complain about things you don't like in the series without judgement from people being like "Omg stop complainingg!" "Why do you complain sooo much? "You should be grateful!" and all that. Also, so the negativity can stay contained to one thread. Without further ado... start complaining! If you want to.
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Aroace
#ffa100
Name Colour
𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑
Villain Enjoyer
Taking a break from the forums because my cat died. Will probably be back mid to late October.
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Post by 𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑 on Nov 26, 2021 14:47:27 GMT -5
My most Substantial complaint against the series as of recently is how the Editing/writing seemed to have contracted a onset bout of acute hemophobia while writing TBC, seriously feels like they intentionally dumbed down the fight scenes, or some instances have the confrontation Happen while off screen to avoid graphic gore and violence etc. and personally, it was a pretty colossal letdown for me . Since it was Kate Cary who wrote ALitM it was to be expected that any scenes of blood and gore would be kept to the absolute minimum as she is known to be squeamish on writing about those things. This is why I prefer Cherith Baldry who tends to go maybe a bit overboard with gore at times but I'm just here for it. She also wrote The Darkest Hour so Tigerstar getting ripped open by Scourge which is still an iconic scene to this day. She wrote The Blazing Star as well and there is a scene in it where one of One Eye's rogues "suggests" gutting Clear Sky when they have him surrounded. Cherith is certainly not afraid to deliver on these points and I now wish she had written A Light in the Mist instead or even The Last Hope for that matter which was written by Kate Cary.
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Post by tallshadowstar on Nov 26, 2021 14:56:09 GMT -5
I wish they'd stop giving every single major female character a love interest and children. Romance certainly has its place in some character's arcs, but it gets very frustrating when it's completely inescapable. Like, seriously - was the Frogleap/Leopardstar subplot really necessary? Did Ivypool really need a mate and kits? Why can't these characters ever just stay happily single?
The only two prominent female characters I can think of who didn't have romantic interests are Needletail and Hollyleaf. Both died young, and I guarantee that if they hadn't they'd both be shoved with some random tom. Hell, the official website lists Fallen Leaves as Hollyleaf's mate, so it's literally just Needletail now.
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Aroace
#ffa100
Name Colour
𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑
Villain Enjoyer
Taking a break from the forums because my cat died. Will probably be back mid to late October.
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Post by 𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑 on Nov 26, 2021 15:04:08 GMT -5
I wish they'd stop giving every single major female character a love interest and children. Romance certainly has its place in some character's arcs, but it gets very frustrating when it's completely inescapable. Like, seriously - was the Frogleap/Leopardstar subplot really necessary? Did Ivypool really need a mate and kits? Why can't these characters ever just stay happily single? The only two prominent female characters I can think of who didn't have romantic interests are Needletail and Hollyleaf. Both died young, and I guarantee that if they hadn't they'd both be shoved with some random tom. Hell, the official website lists Fallen Leaves as Hollyleaf's mate, so it's literally just Needletail now. Not even Needletail though. She was at least implied to be (or become) mates with Rain and would have probably had kits with him as well if he hadn't gotten himself killed. I personally don't really mind a lot of these cats being in love but can still understand your frustrations. There's also Mousefur but she has never been a major female character in this story. The only other she cat with any "major" female protagonist status without a confirmed love interest I can think of is your namesake Tall Shadow/Shadowstar.
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Cloudstorm
Don’t let it kill you. Even when it hurts like hell.
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Post by Cloudstorm on Nov 26, 2021 15:11:43 GMT -5
My most Substantial complaint against the series as of recently is how the Editing/writing seemed to have contracted a onset bout of acute hemophobia while writing TBC, seriously feels like they intentionally dumbed down the fight scenes, or some instances have the confrontation Happen while off screen to avoid graphic gore and violence etc. and personally, it was a pretty colossal letdown for me . Since it was Kate Cary who wrote ALitM it was to be expected that any scenes of blood and gore would be kept to the absolute minimum as she is known to be squeamish on writing about those things. This is why I prefer Cherith Baldry who tends to go maybe a bit overboard with gore at times but I'm just here for it. She also wrote The Darkest Hour so Tigerstar getting ripped open by Scourge which is still an iconic scene to this day. She wrote The Blazing Star as well and there is a scene in it where one of One Eye's rogues "suggests" gutting Clear Sky when they have him surrounded. Cherith is certainly not afraid to deliver on these points and I now wish she had written A Light in the Mist instead or even The Last Hope for that matter which was written by Kate Cary. I was referring to the Whole TBC not just A Light in The Mist. There’s the scene in Veil of shadows as well when the group of rebels attacks Bramblestar/ashfur when him and bristlefrost are out in the forest , and bramblestar sends bristlefrost back to camp to fetch berrynose and reinforcements, and by the time that the camera is back on the scene, their all already dead, hence why i said off screened deaths. Same can be said for parts of AVoS, finale with Darktail in particular was underwhelming AF. Personally I wish the whole series was written by Cherith baldry. It’s a large contributing factor to why I enjoyed TNP so much, because Kate Cary only wrote Dawn . And Yeah I really hope Cherith baldry gets to do more Book 6’s in the future cause Kate Cary is killing them for me. Plus Kate Cary’s Character consistency is nonexistent . And Cherith Baldry as wrote Long Shadows and Sunrise, which are probably the most iconic, influential books in the Entire series as the aftermath is still felt in the Main series to this day. Edit: Especially considering that TBC is supposed to be horror, it makes it more disappointing, since violence/blood gore and traumatic death scenes are generally a huge part of what makes the genre so bone-chilling and thrilling to read through.
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Post by Ravenwing on Nov 26, 2021 15:14:59 GMT -5
The fact that Frecklewish is in the dark forest. Why.
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Post by Chicken on Nov 26, 2021 15:18:19 GMT -5
tallshadowstarThey've given every single main tom character a love interest too, or at least a crush, but I agree. I wish they'd cut back on the romance all together tbh, but unfortunately, that's what they care about the most in this series. RavenwingAgreed! So many cats are in the Dark Forest who do not deserve to be there. Like Stumpytail, what did he do? Go on a patrol with Tigerclaw ONE time?
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Post by Midnightcacoon loves Sunbeam on Nov 27, 2021 4:56:45 GMT -5
I know this isn't the writer's fault, but I'd just like some LGBTQ+ characters to actually be shown in the books. A large part of the fandom are in the LGBTQ+ community, including myself, so it be nice to see some in the books I read as well.
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Post by epicstyle on Nov 27, 2021 11:41:16 GMT -5
I wish that the pacing of the modern arcs was a bit better, it seems that in every arc post-OOTS, the tension fizzles out in the third book. The writers have started to correct this with TBC, because the plot picked up again quickly in the second half, but I would like to see more arcs like TPB that has one overarching story, and one major villain.
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Post by Aqua on Nov 28, 2021 16:03:42 GMT -5
it's very annoying to me when people take their debates as "facts". Whatever happened to having your own personal perspective? a person saying that Bumblestripe isn't good to Dovewing isn't wrong, it's literally just an opinion because people don't like Bumblestripe, and I know some people believe he's a good mate and that's totally fine. but people like to back these arguments up, tell others they're wrong and say "well in canon, Bumblestripe is horrible to Dovewing, its written in the books" but I'm allowed to have a different point of view and say that Bumblestripe was a good mate to Dovewing because he's constantly concerned about her.
Also I don't like Bumblestripe at all, I'm just using this as an example for this complaint
like. Can we stop using our debates as "facts", that you're right because it's canon in the books? You can have your own opinion and I'll have mine, but don't treat your debates as a fact because in the end, these are just cat books, and they're allowed to think that Crowfeather is a good father, or Bumblestripe was a good mate, Dovewing was horrible to Ivypool or a good sister to her. Or like how I see Ivypool as a mean sister to Dovewing, that doesn't mean I believe it's canon; it's just how I view her because I don't like her that much. People can think Ivypool was a good and generous sister to Dovewing that was hurt by her. Thats fine. Just because you see things differently doesn't mean your words are facts. You see things from a different perspective, just like everyone else. That is all.
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Cloudstorm
Don’t let it kill you. Even when it hurts like hell.
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Post by Cloudstorm on Nov 28, 2021 17:38:52 GMT -5
it's very annoying to me when people take their debates as "facts". Whatever happened to having your own personal perspective? a person saying that Bumblestripe isn't good to Dovewing isn't wrong, it's literally just an opinion because people don't like Bumblestripe, and I know some people believe he's a good mate and that's totally fine. but people like to back these arguments up, tell others they're wrong and say "well in canon, Bumblestripe is horrible to Dovewing, its written in the books" but I'm allowed to have a different point of view and say that Bumblestripe was a good mate to Dovewing because he's constantly concerned about her. Also I don't like Bumblestripe at all, I'm just using this as an example for this complaint like. Can we stop using our debates as "facts", that you're right because it's canon in the books? You can have your own opinion and I'll have mine, but don't treat your debates as a fact because in the end, these are just cat books, and they're allowed to think that Crowfeather is a good father, or Bumblestripe was a good mate, Dovewing was horrible to Ivypool or a good sister to her. Or like how I see Ivypool as a mean sister to Dovewing, that doesn't mean I believe it's canon; it's just how I view her because I don't like her that much. People can think Ivypool was a good and generous sister to Dovewing that was hurt by her. Thats fine. Just because you see things differently doesn't mean your words are facts. You see things from a different perspective, just like everyone else. That is all. Agreed. Personal opinions and perspective is just that, opinions and perspectives. I think a large reason is people derive their opinions substantially from personal experiences/hardships etc , and when a piece of material lines up in a book, and has some resemblance to something they’ve went through , they have a tendency to connect to that character and treat their situation like it’s identical to the one they’ve had, while sometimes being(don’t know how to put this without it coming off as potentially offensive, so please I have no intention of hurting anyone with this comment) ignorant or not privy to the drastically different actions the character has taken, rules broken that have lead them to that situation . Also theirs many sensitive and touchy topics that get handled,,,,um questionably in the series to put it mildly, and when someone views something differently, or a situation to be not as Dire or severe as another, there’s potential that person might feel like the other is deigning their personal struggles and making them out to be not a big deal. A good example of this would be Bramblestar and Squirrelflight . If you were to come out an Say “ Bramblestar isn’t abusive” then immediately your gonna get a tirade of people pointing fingers at you claiming, your pro Women abuse, you don’t support women’s rights, your for mistreatment of women etc. and almost every reader that’s ever been in an abusive situation/relationship is Gonna come and say “ it’s obviously abusive” cause they identify the resemblances with an Abusive person, and feel like your not properly giving people that have gone through abuse the respect they deserve, and also not taking it as seriously as it should be taken. And I’m sure some people view it through a narrow-scope and only focus in on certain factors, create a barrier blocking out the rest that’s a contributing factor to the situation, cause they find Squirrelflight relatable, and that they understand what she’s going through and vice versa, it brings comfort to people, it’s a big reason why we find attachment to some characters and not others, and generally once you’ve developed an attachment to one the amount of bad behavior and misdeeds you allow them to get away with before calling them out on it becomes vastly greater, and some will even internally rationalize that they did nothing wrong at all to begin with, that if a character they didn’t like pulled off, would have no qualms crapping all over them for it. There’s a cornucopia of different perspective and opinions that can be applied to any given character or situation, and most do hold some bit of merit, and worth hearing out. Many problems also arise from poor narrative, with the series having absolutely no affixed paradigm of rules indicating what’s considered right and wrong, so what may have been taboo in one book, is then treated as neutral or Acceptable later down the line and vice versa. It’s no wonder people complain about the narrative not correctly depicting reproachable acts in the series in a light that signifies them as being wrong, since clearly not even the writing has come a decision on what’s right or wrong in the series yet .
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Post by cable on Nov 29, 2021 0:03:25 GMT -5
at this point i feel like theres some editor patrolling these forums to see what people dont like and then purposely adding those things in to mess with us like a scientist introducing negative stimuli to their lab rats. actually i cant even complain if thats true because its way too funny.
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Post by Chicken on Nov 29, 2021 11:56:15 GMT -5
at this point i feel like theres some editor patrolling these forums to see what people dont like and then purposely adding those things in to mess with us like a scientist introducing negative stimuli to their lab rats. actually i cant even complain if thats true because its way too funny. Lmao! That would be a bit amusing
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Post by Saint Ambrosef on Nov 29, 2021 17:19:51 GMT -5
On reflection, i've realized that PO3 is one of my favorite arcs because there's so much emphasis on family dynamics. From book 1 through 6, the relationships all feel genuine and believable. The Three interact like real siblings, with all the love and annoyance that comes with it. You feel real devastation for Lionblaze and Jayfeather when they lose Hollyleaf and are left to deal with their family upheaval without her. The Three's anger and heartbreak over Squirrelflight's lie, and subsequent discovery of their true parents' identities, never feels forced for drama. This arc does a really good job establishing the dynamic between family members. And then when Hollyleaf returns in TFW, I was really invested in her family's reaction and independent reunions with each member. Dovewing/Ivypool also had a pretty good (as in believable) sisterly relationship, albeit less...strong.
I didn't really get that same believable family bond with subsequent protagonists. Violetshine and Twigbranch did have a special situation, since they grew up in different clans. But Alder/Spark, and Bristle, Shadow, and Root with their respective littermates felt pretty, idk, shallow compared to the strong dynamics of PO3. Even Dove/Ivy's relationship seemed less family-like post-OOTS.
I just feel like the writers/editors are really missing good potential by not giving family relationships more of a spotlight. Family and all the messy dynamics that come with it is just such a relatable human experience (yes i know these are cats), and its the family aspect that made the character dynamics in PO3 so good.
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Post by 𝔯𝔞𝔟𝔟𝔦𝔱𝔣𝔯𝔬𝔰𝔱 on Nov 29, 2021 19:06:43 GMT -5
On reflection, i've realized that PO3 is one of my favorite arcs because there's so much emphasis on family dynamics. From book 1 through 6, the relationships all feel genuine and believable. The Three interact like real siblings, with all the love and annoyance that comes with it. You feel real devastation for Lionblaze and Jayfeather when they lose Hollyleaf and are left to deal with their family upheaval without her. The Three's anger and heartbreak over Squirrelflight's lie, and subsequent discovery of their true parents' identities, never feels forced for drama. This arc does a really good job establishing the dynamic between family members. And then when Hollyleaf returns in TFW, I was really invested in her family's reaction and independent reunions with each member. Dovewing/Ivypool also had a pretty good (as in believable) sisterly relationship, albeit less...strong. I didn't really get that same believable family bond with subsequent protagonists. Violetshine and Twigbranch did have a special situation, since they grew up in different clans. But Alder/Spark, and Bristle, Shadow, and Root with their respective littermates felt pretty, idk, shallow compared to the strong dynamics of PO3. Even Dove/Ivy's relationship seemed less family-like post-OOTS. I just feel like the writers/editors are really missing good potential by not giving family relationships more of a spotlight. Family and all the messy dynamics that come with it is just such a relatable human experience (yes i know these are cats), and its the family aspect that made the character dynamics in PO3 so good. I 100% agree, the family dynamic hasn't been good since the Three. Newer protagonists haven't had as much concern for their littermates (aside from Violet and Twig, but like you said, that was a unique situation). I don't know if it's just because the littermates have a lack of development or what, but yeah, the family dynamics definitely aren't as good recently as they were in PO3, or even in TNP (Squirrelflight and Leafpool had an interesting family dynamic).
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#04F9B3
StarClan leader
Name Colour
Featherstar
She could now see that destiny alone could not save RiverClan. - Frostpaw, Wind
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Post by Featherstar on Nov 29, 2021 19:59:14 GMT -5
Since it was Kate Cary who wrote ALitM it was to be expected that any scenes of blood and gore would be kept to the absolute minimum as she is known to be squeamish on writing about those things. This is why I prefer Cherith Baldry who tends to go maybe a bit overboard with gore at times but I'm just here for it. She also wrote The Darkest Hour so Tigerstar getting ripped open by Scourge which is still an iconic scene to this day. She wrote The Blazing Star as well and there is a scene in it where one of One Eye's rogues "suggests" gutting Clear Sky when they have him surrounded. Cherith is certainly not afraid to deliver on these points and I now wish she had written A Light in the Mist instead or even The Last Hope for that matter which was written by Kate Cary. I was referring to the Whole TBC not just A Light in The Mist. There’s the scene in Veil of shadows as well when the group of rebels attacks Bramblestar/ashfur when him and bristlefrost are out in the forest , and bramblestar sends bristlefrost back to camp to fetch berrynose and reinforcements, and by the time that the camera is back on the scene, their all already dead, hence why i said off screened deaths. Same can be said for parts of AVoS, finale with Darktail in particular was underwhelming AF. Personally I wish the whole series was written by Cherith baldry. It’s a large contributing factor to why I enjoyed TNP so much, because Kate Cary only wrote Dawn . And Yeah I really hope Cherith baldry gets to do more Book 6’s in the future cause Kate Cary is killing them for me. Plus Kate Cary’s Character consistency is nonexistent . And Cherith Baldry as wrote Long Shadows and Sunrise, which are probably the most iconic, influential books in the Entire series as the aftermath is still felt in the Main series to this day. Edit: Especially considering that TBC is supposed to be horror, it makes it more disappointing, since violence/blood gore and traumatic death scenes are generally a huge part of what makes the genre so bone-chilling and thrilling to read through. Cherith wrote: Forest of Secrets A Dangerous Path The Darkest Hour Midnight Moonrise Starlight Twilight Sunset Outcast Long Shadows Sunrise The Fourth Apprentice Sign of the Moon
The Forgotten Warrior The Sun Trail Thunder Rising The Blazing Star The Apprentice's Quest Shattered Sky River of Fire Lost Stars Veil of Shadows The Place of No Stars River A Starless Clan #3 (*To be written) Firestar's Quest SkyClan's Destiny Yellowfang's Secret Bramblestar's Storm Hawkwing's Journey Crowfeather's Trial Pebbleshine's Kits Graystripe's Vow
Kate wrote:
Into the Wild Fire and Ice Rising Storm Dawn The Sight Dark River Eclipse Fading Echoes Night Whispers The Last Hope The First Battle A Forest Divided Path of Stars Thunder and Shadow Darkest Night The Raging Storm The Silent Thaw Darkness Within A Light in the Mist A Starless Clan #2 *(Kate has finished writing this book, but the title is still unknown.) A Starless Clan #4 *(To be written) Bluestar's Prophecy Crookedstar's Promise Tallstar's Revenge Moth Flight's Vision Tigerheart's Shadow Squirrelflight's Hope Leopardstar's Honor
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Post by Spooky Alice on Nov 29, 2021 20:33:16 GMT -5
I don't think the clans have ever had super distinct cultures from each other and it bugs me so much. i don't even mean stuff like what prey they eat, that's so secondary, i mean everything is just the same with a different coat of paint (there are a few pieces of neat things like riverclan decorating their dens and the moor-runner/tunneler system in windclan, but beyond that its just nothing).
you can't tell me that windclan is more pious than the other clans and then not really show it, for instance. how have there not been divergences in cultures in fairly massive ways after generations??? the worldbuilding in this series makes me nuts
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Cloudstorm
Don’t let it kill you. Even when it hurts like hell.
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Post by Cloudstorm on Nov 29, 2021 20:56:01 GMT -5
I was referring to the Whole TBC not just A Light in The Mist. There’s the scene in Veil of shadows as well when the group of rebels attacks Bramblestar/ashfur when him and bristlefrost are out in the forest , and bramblestar sends bristlefrost back to camp to fetch berrynose and reinforcements, and by the time that the camera is back on the scene, their all already dead, hence why i said off screened deaths. Same can be said for parts of AVoS, finale with Darktail in particular was underwhelming AF. Personally I wish the whole series was written by Cherith baldry. It’s a large contributing factor to why I enjoyed TNP so much, because Kate Cary only wrote Dawn . And Yeah I really hope Cherith baldry gets to do more Book 6’s in the future cause Kate Cary is killing them for me. Plus Kate Cary’s Character consistency is nonexistent . And Cherith Baldry as wrote Long Shadows and Sunrise, which are probably the most iconic, influential books in the Entire series as the aftermath is still felt in the Main series to this day. Edit: Especially considering that TBC is supposed to be horror, it makes it more disappointing, since violence/blood gore and traumatic death scenes are generally a huge part of what makes the genre so bone-chilling and thrilling to read through. Cherith wrote: Forest of Secrets A Dangerous Path The Darkest Hour Midnight Moonrise Starlight Twilight Sunset Outcast Long Shadows Sunrise The Fourth Apprentice Sign of the Moon
The Forgotten Warrior The Sun Trail Thunder Rising The Blazing Star The Apprentice's Quest Shattered Sky River of Fire Lost Stars Veil of Shadows The Place of No Stars River A Starless Clan #3 (*To be written) Firestar's Quest SkyClan's Destiny Yellowfang's Secret Bramblestar's Storm Hawkwing's Journey Crowfeather's Trial Pebbleshine's Kits Graystripe's Vow
Kate wrote:
Into the Wild Fire and Ice Rising Storm Dawn The Sight Dark River Eclipse Fading Echoes Night Whispers The Last Hope The First Battle A Forest Divided Path of Stars Thunder and Shadow Darkest Night The Raging Storm The Silent Thaw Darkness Within A Light in the Mist A Starless Clan #2 *(Kate has finished writing this book, but the title is still unknown.) A Starless Clan #4 *(To be written) Bluestar's Prophecy Crookedstar's Promise Tallstar's Revenge Moth Flight's Vision Tigerheart's Shadow Squirrelflight's Hope Leopardstar's Honor Books Kate’s Wrote in the main series I’ve enjoyed mostly/fully Post-PO3 . The Last Hope, Thunder and Shadow, The Silent Thaw, Darkest Night(I really liked Skyclan scouting to find the cats they lost after being driven out of the gorge), The Silent Thaw.(just started The First Battle, so gonna find out how her half holds up to Cherith’s contribution) Super Editions Kate’s Wrote I’ve enjoyed Post-Crookedstar’s Promise . Leopardstar’s Honor(haven’t Read Tallstar’s Revenge yet, but it’s next on my to-read list )*( I Really enjoyed the Guardian cats in Tigerheart’s Shadow, but sadly Tigerheart’s and Dovewing’s drama/presence made the amount of times I was infuriated far outweigh the times i was content reading through it) *Squirrelflight’s Hope(Inside The Whitehouse: Warrior Cats Edition) probably the 2nd Fastest SE I’ve read through, since I was desperately hoping it would eventually get good, which it did……For like the last 2-3 chapters, The rest can be flushed down the drain.
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Post by Chicken on Dec 2, 2021 11:42:15 GMT -5
I don't think the clans have ever had super distinct cultures from each other and it bugs me so much. i don't even mean stuff like what prey they eat, that's so secondary, i mean everything is just the same with a different coat of paint (there are a few pieces of neat things like riverclan decorating their dens and the moor-runner/tunneler system in windclan, but beyond that its just nothing). you can't tell me that windclan is more pious than the other clans and then not really show it, for instance. how have there not been divergences in cultures in fairly massive ways after generations??? the worldbuilding in this series makes me nuts Agreed! And the little distinctions they did have pretty much be erased since they moved to the lake. Like I can't recall a time where ShadowClan was mentioned as being sneaky or stinky since TNP. Everyone is catching rabbits, even elderly Graystripe, so it's no longer a WindClan, or just the fastest cats sort of thing. But I think Tigerstain ruined that when he started catching rabbits for his trap thing, but it baffles me that these days EVERYONE catches rabbits, Stonefur even caught one in Leopardstar's Honor, like what happened to all the other prey? Who has this fixation on rabbits?
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