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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2021 21:01:39 GMT -5
not every decision needs to be decisive and concrete though, plus she was already in a very stressful position I mean having good, sound decisive Judgement, and not being intransigent and being able to remain calm, and collected under stressful conditions are ideal traits and foundation for good parenting. If stressful conditions are all it takes for one to buckle under the pressure, and start Making poor, sporadical, impulsive judgement calls then you shouldn’t be a parent imo, cause that’s a pretty rocky ride for whatever children you do have. not responding to the level of pressure that dovewing was under is unrealistic? people don’t have to be untouchable and flawless with perfect decision making skills to be good
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Cloudstorm
Don’t let it kill you. Even when it hurts like hell.
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Post by Cloudstorm on Nov 19, 2021 21:44:44 GMT -5
I mean having good, sound decisive Judgement, and not being intransigent and being able to remain calm, and collected under stressful conditions are ideal traits and foundation for good parenting. If stressful conditions are all it takes for one to buckle under the pressure, and start Making poor, sporadical, impulsive judgement calls then you shouldn’t be a parent imo, cause that’s a pretty rocky ride for whatever children you do have. not responding to the level of pressure that dovewing was under is unrealistic? people don’t have to be untouchable and flawless with perfect decision making skills to be good there’s plenty of more healthy avenues for her to respond to her pressured and stressful conditions, she just refuses to take them, or spend thinking through anything thoroughly to even try to come to a better solution to her problem. And her only tangible stress at that moment is Bumblestripe and Ivypool? Who she’s partly blame for her rift with Ivypool. While he’s it’s unreasonable to expect people to make the correct decisions all the time. She has a very jaded history of making horrible decisions, so it’s not just that one time.
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Nov 19, 2021 21:55:12 GMT -5
It wasn't even that, or at least not the main reason. Dovewing makes it clear that she left because of a continuous nightmare that kept getting worse every time she had it and it's heavily implied she had it because she was still pregnant with Shadowkit. Daisy, thinking it was just a regular nightmare, tells Dovewing she could've just come to her and I remember seeing people agree, but even Alderheart had his doubts on this, the nursery actually was destroyed while Dovewing was away, the dream—including the location Dovewing had to go to—was pretty specific, and it's incredibly rare for something this important to just be nothing anyway, especially in this series. Whoa, I didn't even remember this! It's been ages since I've read ThS, so thank you for clarifying. I think my mind just sort of filled in the blanks in my memory with my own subjective interpretation of Dovewing. Sure thing! And yeah, given everything—from Dovewing's own role as the Third to the Clans' prejudices against half-Clan kits, to even Darktail's rise to power (something Dovewing actually does cite as a concern since even though he'd been defeated at this point, the Clans have never known peace for long), on top of the nightmares, I really can't blame her for wanting to leave. I do however still kinda wish she had told the Clan, though. She didn't even have to tell them the entire truth, just say StarClan wanted her to go somewhere and that she needed to do it on her own, or else have a Clanmate she really trusted go with her. And because she used to be one of the Three, they might've believed her. But again, I get why she didn't want to take that risk since it's just as possible they wouldn't have believed her anyway. Leafpool, after all, had used a similar excuse and everyone knew how close she had become to Tigerheart by now.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Nov 19, 2021 22:48:46 GMT -5
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 Didn't Daisy say that mothers having dreams cause of their kits is normal though? The books quite literally dismissed Dovewing's reasoning for leaving twice, with Daisy and when Tigerheart literally just told her to join him in ShadowClan. The only reason why ShadowClan even disbanded anyways was because Tigerheart left, and Rowanstar was ready to give him leadership too. There really was no reason for Dovewing not to join ShadowClan tbh.
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Nov 19, 2021 23:00:10 GMT -5
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 Didn't Daisy say that mothers having dreams cause of their kits is normal though? The books quite literally dismissed Dovewing's reasoning for leaving twice, with Daisy and when Tigerheart literally just told her to join him in ShadowClan. The only reason why ShadowClan even disbanded anyways was because Tigerheart left, and Rowanstar was ready to give him leadership too. There really was no reason for Dovewing not to join ShadowClan tbh. She did, but what of it? Just because Tigerheart and later Daisy dismissed it doesn't really mean anything, especially since even Alderheart thinks she was right to leave when she did since, like I said, the nursery was destroyed when she left. Besides, remember that this is Warriors, where dreams are rarely just dreams. The readers are clearly meant to take it seriously given it becomes the catalyst for why Dovewing left, unless you want to argue it's just a giant coincidence, but even if it was just nothing, she still had a dream—via an unborn Shadowkit—that led her to the guardian cats. It'd be one thing if it was just a one-off mention, like Jayfeather dreaming about hunting that one time, but it isn't. That said, she really should've gone to ShadowClan much sooner, even before she became pregnant.
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Cloudstorm
Don’t let it kill you. Even when it hurts like hell.
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Post by Cloudstorm on Nov 19, 2021 23:22:51 GMT -5
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 Didn't Daisy say that mothers having dreams cause of their kits is normal though? The books quite literally dismissed Dovewing's reasoning for leaving twice, with Daisy and when Tigerheart literally just told her to join him in ShadowClan. The only reason why ShadowClan even disbanded anyways was because Tigerheart left, and Rowanstar was ready to give him leadership too. There really was no reason for Dovewing not to join ShadowClan tbh. She did, but what of it? Just because Tigerheart and later Daisy dismissed it doesn't really mean anything, especially since even Alderheart thinks she was right to leave when she did since, like I said, the nursery was destroyed when she left. Besides, remember that this is Warriors, where dreams are rarely just dreams. The readers are clearly meant to take it seriously given it becomes the catalyst for why Dovewing left, and even if it was just nothing, she still had a dream—via an unborn Shadowkit—that led her to the guardian cats. It'd be one thing if it was just a one-off mention, like Jayfeather dreaming about hunting that one time, but it isn't. It's a plot point. That said, she really should've gone to ShadowClan much sooner. is this even on topic anymore? I mean , I suppose I can understand the reasoning behind Dovewings Decision to run off into the night a little bit, but I fail to see how that’s pertinent information when it comes to whether or not she’s a good parent. Just because the narrative plays her actions off as Justified, and everything ends up hunky-dory by some miracle in the end, doesn’t mean she made a good decision, and she certainly isn’t a good parent imo. At most both Dovewing’s and Tigerheart’s reliquary of possessed Parental skills barely surpasses basic rudimentary instinctual desire to care and nurture for their young, Outside that their decision making as individuals and Parents has been mediocre at best in my subjective opinion.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Nov 20, 2021 13:59:18 GMT -5
She did, but what of it? Just because Tigerheart and later Daisy dismissed it doesn't really mean anything, especially since even Alderheart thinks she was right to leave when she did since, like I said, the nursery was destroyed when she left. Besides, remember that this is Warriors, where dreams are rarely just dreams. The readers are clearly meant to take it seriously given it becomes the catalyst for why Dovewing left, and even if it was just nothing, she still had a dream—via an unborn Shadowkit—that led her to the guardian cats. It'd be one thing if it was just a one-off mention, like Jayfeather dreaming about hunting that one time, but it isn't. It's a plot point. That said, she really should've gone to ShadowClan much sooner. is this even on topic anymore? I mean , I suppose I can understand the reasoning behind Dovewings Decision to run off into the night a little bit, but I fail to see how that’s pertinent information when it comes to whether or not she’s a good parent. Just because the narrative plays her actions off as Justified, and everything ends up hunky-dory by some miracle in the end, doesn’t mean she made a good decision, and she certainly isn’t a good parent imo. At most both Dovewing’s and Tigerheart’s reliquary of possessed Parental skills barely surpasses basic rudimentary instinctual desire to care and nurture for their young, Outside that their decision making as individuals and Parents has been mediocre at best in my subjective opinion. I agree. Like the reason I even pointed out how easily her reasonings were dismissed in the narrative was because the writing leaned on it so heavily at the start of ThS to try and justify her running off while pregnant and putting herself and their kits in danger. But then the narrative so easily tosses it aside when she comes back like, "Oh no that's normal." doesn't mean it's a normal dream full of coincidences, it literally just means that it's normal for mothers to have dreams because of their kits. And even though the den collapsed in, literally no cat was even hurt anyways. And quite frankly, that situation wouldn't even matter if she was in ShadowClan anyways after telling Tigerheart about her the kits. ShadowClan also wouldn't have disbanded because there would have been no reason for Tigerheart to run off either. Not to mention, ThunderClan literally had how many medicine cats at the time she could have just talked to about her concerns with? She could have even talked to Daisy about it, she had plenty of options, but the first things he jumped to was just running away. It felt like it was less of her running away to protect her kits and more like she was running away to avoid her problems when it came to breaking the code. I pretty much agree, that just because the narrative tries to justify her actions doesn't mean she made good choices. People can try to excuse her behavior, saying she was stressed and not thinking clearly, yet she was clearly thinking enough to leave, and even force Tigerheart into a compromise despite him even offering a better solution of just literally joining ShadowClan. ThS, felt more like it was using Dovewing as convenient plot bait, in an excuse to give Tigerheart a more glorified character story, then quickly dismissing Dovewing's reasoning for leaving after the narrative just didn't need her anymore. Dovewing's reasoning for leaving, at the end of the day felt weak, because the narrative made it weak, and her actions she made made her come off as an irresponsible mother and selfish mate at worst. Like a character can have good intentions, but it doesn't make their actions good.
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Post by Aqua on Nov 20, 2021 15:39:27 GMT -5
is this even on topic anymore? I mean , I suppose I can understand the reasoning behind Dovewings Decision to run off into the night a little bit, but I fail to see how that’s pertinent information when it comes to whether or not she’s a good parent. Just because the narrative plays her actions off as Justified, and everything ends up hunky-dory by some miracle in the end, doesn’t mean she made a good decision, and she certainly isn’t a good parent imo. At most both Dovewing’s and Tigerheart’s reliquary of possessed Parental skills barely surpasses basic rudimentary instinctual desire to care and nurture for their young, Outside that their decision making as individuals and Parents has been mediocre at best in my subjective opinion. I agree. Like the reason I even pointed out how easily her reasonings were dismissed in the narrative was because the writing leaned on it so heavily at the start of ThS to try and justify her running off while pregnant and putting herself and their kits in danger. But then the narrative so easily tosses it aside when she comes back like, "Oh no that's normal." doesn't mean it's a normal dream full of coincidences, it literally just means that it's normal for mothers to have dreams because of their kits. And even though the den collapsed in, literally no cat was even hurt anyways. And quite frankly, that situation wouldn't even matter if she was in ShadowClan anyways after telling Tigerheart about her the kits. ShadowClan also wouldn't have disbanded because there would have been no reason for Tigerheart to run off either. Not to mention, ThunderClan literally had how many medicine cats at the time she could have just talked to about her concerns with? She could have even talked to Daisy about it, she had plenty of options, but the first things he jumped to was just running away. It felt like it was less of her running away to protect her kits and more like she was running away to avoid her problems when it came to breaking the code. I pretty much agree, that just because the narrative tries to justify her actions doesn't mean she made good choices. People can try to excuse her behavior, saying she was stressed and not thinking clearly, yet she was clearly thinking enough to leave, and even force Tigerheart into a compromise despite him even offering a better solution of just literally joining ShadowClan. ThS, felt more like it was using Dovewing as convenient plot bait, in an excuse to give Tigerheart a more glorified character story, then quickly dismissing Dovewing's reasoning for leaving after the narrative just didn't need her anymore. Dovewing's reasoning for leaving, at the end of the day felt weak, because the narrative made it weak, and her actions she made made her come off as an irresponsible mother and selfish mate at worst. Like a character can have good intentions, but it doesn't make their actions good. Where in the world are people excusing Dovewing's behavior? People understand her; that doesn't mean we're saying her behavior is alright.
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Nov 20, 2021 16:06:12 GMT -5
I agree. Like the reason I even pointed out how easily her reasonings were dismissed in the narrative was because the writing leaned on it so heavily at the start of ThS to try and justify her running off while pregnant and putting herself and their kits in danger. But then the narrative so easily tosses it aside when she comes back like, "Oh no that's normal." doesn't mean it's a normal dream full of coincidences, it literally just means that it's normal for mothers to have dreams because of their kits. And even though the den collapsed in, literally no cat was even hurt anyways. And quite frankly, that situation wouldn't even matter if she was in ShadowClan anyways after telling Tigerheart about her the kits. ShadowClan also wouldn't have disbanded because there would have been no reason for Tigerheart to run off either. Not to mention, ThunderClan literally had how many medicine cats at the time she could have just talked to about her concerns with? She could have even talked to Daisy about it, she had plenty of options, but the first things he jumped to was just running away. It felt like it was less of her running away to protect her kits and more like she was running away to avoid her problems when it came to breaking the code. I pretty much agree, that just because the narrative tries to justify her actions doesn't mean she made good choices. People can try to excuse her behavior, saying she was stressed and not thinking clearly, yet she was clearly thinking enough to leave, and even force Tigerheart into a compromise despite him even offering a better solution of just literally joining ShadowClan. ThS, felt more like it was using Dovewing as convenient plot bait, in an excuse to give Tigerheart a more glorified character story, then quickly dismissing Dovewing's reasoning for leaving after the narrative just didn't need her anymore. Dovewing's reasoning for leaving, at the end of the day felt weak, because the narrative made it weak, and her actions she made made her come off as an irresponsible mother and selfish mate at worst. Like a character can have good intentions, but it doesn't make their actions good. Where in the world are people excusing Dovewing's behavior? People understand her; that doesn't mean we're saying her behavior is alright. Pretty much this. Tbh, I don't even think Dovewing is that great of a mother, considering this is still the same cat who put her kits in danger and was also fully willing to fight a fox while pregnant. Really, it's amazing she was able to give birth successfully. And in my case, all I did was point out what literally happened in the books (which could be a problem with the books themselves; tbh everything surrounding Dovewing's leaving just felt kinda contrived to me) and offer possible explanations for why Dovewing didn't do things a little differently. Just because someone doesn't say "by the way, I know this character was wrong" every time they talk about a certain character doesn't always automatically mean that character is being defended.
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Cloudstorm
Don’t let it kill you. Even when it hurts like hell.
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Post by Cloudstorm on Nov 20, 2021 16:21:18 GMT -5
I agree. Like the reason I even pointed out how easily her reasonings were dismissed in the narrative was because the writing leaned on it so heavily at the start of ThS to try and justify her running off while pregnant and putting herself and their kits in danger. But then the narrative so easily tosses it aside when she comes back like, "Oh no that's normal." doesn't mean it's a normal dream full of coincidences, it literally just means that it's normal for mothers to have dreams because of their kits. And even though the den collapsed in, literally no cat was even hurt anyways. And quite frankly, that situation wouldn't even matter if she was in ShadowClan anyways after telling Tigerheart about her the kits. ShadowClan also wouldn't have disbanded because there would have been no reason for Tigerheart to run off either. Not to mention, ThunderClan literally had how many medicine cats at the time she could have just talked to about her concerns with? She could have even talked to Daisy about it, she had plenty of options, but the first things he jumped to was just running away. It felt like it was less of her running away to protect her kits and more like she was running away to avoid her problems when it came to breaking the code. I pretty much agree, that just because the narrative tries to justify her actions doesn't mean she made good choices. People can try to excuse her behavior, saying she was stressed and not thinking clearly, yet she was clearly thinking enough to leave, and even force Tigerheart into a compromise despite him even offering a better solution of just literally joining ShadowClan. ThS, felt more like it was using Dovewing as convenient plot bait, in an excuse to give Tigerheart a more glorified character story, then quickly dismissing Dovewing's reasoning for leaving after the narrative just didn't need her anymore. Dovewing's reasoning for leaving, at the end of the day felt weak, because the narrative made it weak, and her actions she made made her come off as an irresponsible mother and selfish mate at worst. Like a character can have good intentions, but it doesn't make their actions good. Where in the world are people excusing Dovewing's behavior? People understand her; that doesn't mean we're saying her behavior is alright. Haw was trying to reason with me that her being under stressed Conditions was justification for her running off and was definitely using it as leverage to portray Dovewing as a good mother .
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2021 16:32:47 GMT -5
Where in the world are people excusing Dovewing's behavior? People understand her; that doesn't mean we're saying her behavior is alright. Haw was trying to reason with me that her being under stressed Conditions was justification for her running off and was definitely using it as leverage to portray Dovewing as a good mother . it’s true though dovewing’s done nothing wrong ever <3
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Cloudstorm
Don’t let it kill you. Even when it hurts like hell.
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Post by Cloudstorm on Nov 20, 2021 16:56:24 GMT -5
Haw was trying to reason with me that her being under stressed Conditions was justification for her running off and was definitely using it as leverage to portray Dovewing as a good mother . it’s true though dovewing’s done nothing wrong ever <3 okay if you can say that with a straight face kudos to you.
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Post by Sand 🎃 on Nov 20, 2021 17:00:47 GMT -5
Haw was trying to reason with me that her being under stressed Conditions was justification for her running off and was definitely using it as leverage to portray Dovewing as a good mother . it’s true though dovewing’s done nothing wrong ever <3 Hi, please stop trolling.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2021 17:02:48 GMT -5
it’s true though dovewing’s done nothing wrong ever <3 Hi, please stop trolling. I’m not trolling what??
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Heterosexual
Epic Grandmaster of Headcanons
ˈʔɛɱb̪ɻ̩f̞ʊt̠̚
Message me your headcanons pls
Pronouns: He/him/his (but they's good too)
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Post by ˈʔɛɱb̪ɻ̩f̞ʊt̠̚ on Nov 20, 2021 17:33:45 GMT -5
Hi, please stop trolling. I’m not trolling what?? Bruh you are
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Post by Sand 🎃 on Nov 20, 2021 17:34:47 GMT -5
Something to point out to everyone on this thread or, really, members in Warriors General:
Stop being passive aggressive in your posts. Please think and reread over your posts before submitting them. What words have you used that can be misconstrued or are simply passive aggressive?
Also, you're gonna rack up warnings real quick.
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Heterosexual
Epic Grandmaster of Headcanons
ˈʔɛɱb̪ɻ̩f̞ʊt̠̚
Message me your headcanons pls
Pronouns: He/him/his (but they's good too)
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Post by ˈʔɛɱb̪ɻ̩f̞ʊt̠̚ on Nov 20, 2021 17:36:30 GMT -5
Sand 🎃What happens if you get too many warnings?
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Post by Sand 🎃 on Nov 20, 2021 17:38:07 GMT -5
ˈʔɛɱb̪ɻ̩f̞ʊt̠̚ -- Depends on the situation, but a person would banned from the website. They can't come back unless they ban hop and if they do that, they get banned again.
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Heterosexual
Epic Grandmaster of Headcanons
ˈʔɛɱb̪ɻ̩f̞ʊt̠̚
Message me your headcanons pls
Pronouns: He/him/his (but they's good too)
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Post by ˈʔɛɱb̪ɻ̩f̞ʊt̠̚ on Nov 20, 2021 17:39:04 GMT -5
Sand 🎃How many warnings do you need? And do warnings go away with time?
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Post by Sand 🎃 on Nov 20, 2021 17:48:29 GMT -5
As for how many warnings, a user's behavior determines it all. If a user continues to break rules, warnings are to be expected.
Yes, warnings go away with time as long as a user's behavior improves. Usually every 3 months, staff removes a warning from the user's account. There's a thread that we have in News & Announcements that reminds users that they can contact staff to remind them of removing warnings from the user's account.
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