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Post by madhatter on Nov 11, 2021 12:33:03 GMT -5
Honestly i found it really dumb how none of thunderclan saw the two apprentices and assume riverclan stole them
Honestly i could see a full out war breaking out when sunstar realizing those are bluefurs and (from what he knows) Thrustpelts kits sees them at the gathering with the same exact names
And bluefur won't be able to do anything about it, and thrustpelt would be angered that riverclan stole his friends kits and try to support bluefur, I defiantly can see him being the most inclined to get them back
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Post by madhatter on Nov 11, 2021 12:34:06 GMT -5
in short, they should have at least changed the names
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Nov 11, 2021 15:07:44 GMT -5
i 100% agree...thats like one of the biggest plotholes and stupidities in the first arc (as much as i love the first arc, this error is so stupid lol).
they didn't change the kits names. it's shown that thunderclan met bluefur's kits and they even played in camp...it'd make a bit more sense if bluefur pulled a squirrelflight and leafpool and left camp to give birth and gave them to oakheart as soon as possible. so then oakheart could have named the kits and no one in thunderclan would know anything. she would then say her was on a walk when she gave birth and was chased away by a fox or something, and when she came back for her kits, they were gone. and thunderclan would have no choice but the believe her because they knew she was pregnant. she didn't fake it like squirrelflight did.
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Post by Ṣanɗypaw™ on Nov 11, 2021 20:46:09 GMT -5
This is the same Clan that couldn't tell Leafpool was pregnant so it's not that surprising XD.
But yeah, it's a really stupid error.
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Post by madhatter on Nov 11, 2021 23:25:42 GMT -5
This is the same Clan that couldn't tell Leafpool was pregnant so it's not that surprising XD. But yeah, it's a really stupid error. Honestly they could have just thought leafpool gained weight I already headcanon her as a plump cat so i guess it could pass off asjust here gaining weight Plus i have seen some photos, pregnant cats really just look fat
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Post by madhatter on Nov 11, 2021 23:27:51 GMT -5
i 100% agree...thats like one of the biggest plotholes and stupidities in the first arc (as much as i love the first arc, this error is so stupid lol). they didn't change the kits names. it's shown that thunderclan met bluefur's kits and they even played in camp...it'd make a bit more sense if bluefur pulled a squirrelflight and leafpool and left camp to give birth and gave them to oakheart as soon as possible. so then oakheart could have named the kits and no one in thunderclan would know anything. she would then say her was on a walk when she gave birth and was chased away by a fox or something, and when she came back for her kits, they were gone. and thunderclan would have no choice but the believe her because they knew she was pregnant. she didn't fake it like squirrelflight did. Yeah but since they do look at lot like graypool they can be passed off as her kits it would have made so much more sense for oakheart to let Graypool name them instead of being the biggest dunce of riverclan Like Maybe Fogkit and Rainkit would be the names??? honestly my biggest problem is the names tbh Just say they are part of her litter its that easy tbh
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2021 1:10:17 GMT -5
I had seen some comic on Tumblr the other day where Thrushpelt saw Stonepaw and Mistypaw on the border and realized it was them I agree that they should've had different names in TC to avoid the Clan looking stupid later
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Post by whiteflight on Nov 12, 2021 1:30:21 GMT -5
For the looks it made sense why Thunderclan wouldn't know because both Misty and Stone did look like Graypool. Otherwise the names are the questionable part. Perhaps Thunderclan didn't really care since Stone and Misty are Riverclan names, plus Graypool was still a queen so they probably thought she just had more kits. Though if Mosskit was alive then I'm sure Thunderclan would have said something.
If Thunderclan did find out they'll probably start a war since Bluefur lied that her kits went missing. So Thunderclan would do what they can to get the kits back.
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Post by Katanaheart on Nov 12, 2021 1:38:39 GMT -5
A queen’s word was more respected back then. The cats would never expect Bluefur to lie about a Fox or badger taking her kittens, just as ThunderClan would have to accept that a RiverClan queen simply had given her kits the names of two kits that ThunderClan had lost. (Now that I think about it, did Oakheart even know their names till Bluefur took them to be taken to RiverClan? I may be misremembering that detail. But I highly doubt Graypool or the other Clans knew their names, unless it was announced at a gathering. Even with an announcement that Bluefur had kits, let alone their names revealed. The fact a kit that looked like Mosskit never appeared in RiverClan, May have made TC less suspicious to the idea, anyway. (Mosskit was the stand-out child being partially white and thus not entirely like Graypool like Stonefur and Mistyfoot.
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Post by ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁 on Nov 12, 2021 2:33:46 GMT -5
Another thing, Graypool had a living mate and he was apparently cool with those kits assuming Oakheart was their father? Did Rippleclaw break up with Graypool over this? Were they a fling?
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Post by madhatter on Nov 12, 2021 20:05:27 GMT -5
For the looks it made sense why Thunderclan wouldn't know because both Misty and Stone did look like Graypool. Otherwise the names are the questionable part. Perhaps Thunderclan didn't really care since Stone and Misty are Riverclan names, plus Graypool was still a queen so they probably thought she just had more kits. Though if Mosskit was alive then I'm sure Thunderclan would have said something. If Thunderclan did find out they'll probably start a war since Bluefur lied that her kits went missing. So Thunderclan would do what they can to get the kits back. Yeah but it would be way too suspicious the rest of Graypools kits died so they had to assume graypool had two cats with the same exact names genders and ages, even if mosskit wasn't alive it wouldn't be hard to believe because bluestars story was that she went out hunting and came back with a hole in the nursery and no kits, while it works for a fox it can easily work as a abduction story, so either Sunstar was a complete mousebrain or something else is going on- i mean they never found any traces of the bodys or a fox
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Post by madhatter on Nov 12, 2021 20:07:05 GMT -5
Another thing, Graypool had a living mate and he was apparently cool with those kits assuming Oakheart was their father? Did Rippleclaw break up with Graypool over this? Were they a fling? i mean in crookedstars promise its known to riverclan that oakheart just popped on in and threw the babies at graypool they could have just assumed oakheart adopted them
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Post by madhatter on Nov 12, 2021 20:14:37 GMT -5
A queen’s word was more respected back then. The cats would never expect Bluefur to lie about a Fox or badger taking her kittens, just as ThunderClan would have to accept that a RiverClan queen simply had given her kits the names of two kits that ThunderClan had lost. (Now that I think about it, did Oakheart even know their names till Bluefur took them to be taken to RiverClan? I may be misremembering that detail. But I highly doubt Graypool or the other Clans knew their names, unless it was announced at a gathering. Even with an announcement that Bluefur had kits, let alone their names revealed. The fact a kit that looked like Mosskit never appeared in RiverClan, May have made TC less suspicious to the idea, anyway. (Mosskit was the stand-out child being partially white and thus not entirely like Graypool like Stonefur and Mistyfoot. Yeah but heres the thing Bluestars statement could have easily been seen as a guess, the same circumcises that could allude to a fox taking them could easily apply to Them being kitnapped even then they could still assume mosskit died from some other way in fact the journey there would have still been harsh to the kits so its still easy to guess that mosskit could have passed on the way there or even due to other means such as a sickness, they had no reason not to even guess the biggest thing is the names because if oakheart had let graypool name them herself things would have made so much more sense
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Post by ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁 on Nov 12, 2021 20:14:47 GMT -5
Another thing, Graypool had a living mate and he was apparently cool with those kits assuming Oakheart was their father? Did Rippleclaw break up with Graypool over this? Were they a fling? i mean in crookedstars promise its known to riverclan that oakheart just popped on in and threw the babies at graypool they could have just assumed oakheart adopted them In the series, they acted like Oakheart and Graypool were their actual parents. The only way I can see this being without issue is if Rippleclaw was a fling with Graypool or they broke up because Oakheart was stepping on some toes. (Apparently Rippleclaw was alive in ITW?) Given how they said Graypool was a great mother and the great care Mistyfoot took care, I don't think she was just giving them milk. I think she and Oakheart actively raised them together with the impression they were the parents. Stonefur and Mistyfoot assumed they were fullblooded RiverClan, so just being adopted seems weird to me.
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Post by madhatter on Nov 12, 2021 20:18:04 GMT -5
i mean in crookedstars promise its known to riverclan that oakheart just popped on in and threw the babies at graypool they could have just assumed oakheart adopted them In the series, they acted like Oakheart and Graypool were their actual parents. The only way I can see this being without issue is if Rippleclaw was a fling with Graypool or they broke up because Oakheart was stepping on some toes. (Apparently Rippleclaw was alive in ITW?) Given how they said Graypool was a great mother and the great care Mistyfoot took care, I don't think she was just giving them milk. I think she and Oakheart actively raised them together with the impression they were the parents. Stonefur and Mistyfoot assumed they were fullblooded RiverClan, so just being adopted seems weird to me. Yeah though i read crookedstars promise and quite literally don't remember rippleclaw doing anything about it?? idk maybe they were in a open relationship
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Post by ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁 on Nov 12, 2021 20:20:45 GMT -5
Which is weird, they name dropped him as a mate and he suddenly doesn't care when he has a second chance at fatherhood. I hate the inconsistencies and plotholes with BluexOak. If they had simply given ThunderClan names, then Bluefur and Oakheart renamed them, as well as Graypool not having a mate... It's too sloppy.
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Post by rabbit on Nov 12, 2021 20:42:04 GMT -5
In the Leopardstar SE, Misty and Stone didn't know Oakheart was their father until the big reveal because they talk about how 'it must have been hard pretending to not be our father'. All of RiverClan also knew Graypool's original litter died. The whole blueoak plothole is just a mess.
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Post by Katanaheart on Nov 12, 2021 20:43:41 GMT -5
A queen’s word was more respected back then. The cats would never expect Bluefur to lie about a Fox or badger taking her kittens, just as ThunderClan would have to accept that a RiverClan queen simply had given her kits the names of two kits that ThunderClan had lost. (Now that I think about it, did Oakheart even know their names till Bluefur took them to be taken to RiverClan? I may be misremembering that detail. But I highly doubt Graypool or the other Clans knew their names, unless it was announced at a gathering. Even with an announcement that Bluefur had kits, let alone their names revealed. The fact a kit that looked like Mosskit never appeared in RiverClan, May have made TC less suspicious to the idea, anyway. (Mosskit was the stand-out child being partially white and thus not entirely like Graypool like Stonefur and Mistyfoot. Yeah but heres the thing Bluestars statement could have easily been seen as a guess, the same circumcises that could allude to a fox taking them could easily apply to Them being kitnapped even then they could still assume mosskit died from some other way in fact the journey there would have still been harsh to the kits so its still easy to guess that mosskit could have passed on the way there or even due to other means such as a sickness, they had no reason not to even guess the biggest thing is the names because if oakheart had let graypool name them herself things would have made so much more sense They would have no reason to argue Bluefur’s word though. Why argue with an upset queen who gave the best and most obvious guess? RiverClan scent would have also been obvious to ThunderClan, since an attack typically needs to be staged for actual kit-napping. Let alone assume that RiverClan stole their kits, it’s an unthinkable act that is only seen during Brokenstar’s reign, due to the fact the act of stealing kits is never really brought up again, outside of it. (Graypool and Willowbreeze’s situation being heavily different as it was more of a custody battle that enveloped WindClan and RiverClan, which doesn’t seem to have been something TC or SC ever knew about. So feuds kind of stay within the respective Clan due to politics.) The names also sound very RiverClan anyway, again minus Mosskit,, and none of the other Clans even knew the names of the kits prior. (If I could remember if Oakheart knew/didn’t know the names of his children, would be further evidence towards the fact no Clan knew their names anyway.) If they had been actually kit-napped instead of being quietly taken by their mother, the kits would have been screaming alongside signs of struggle as they would be wanted alive. A Fox would have simply killed them with little effort and chance of evidence.
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