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Post by Katanaheart on Nov 5, 2021 15:11:38 GMT -5
While working on a different list. I found that out and am now surprised. I imagine it’s mentioned in Blackfoot’s Reckoning since that information under Scorchwind’s page isn’t listed. But Scorchwind is the father of Rowanclaw and Cedarheart, making Brokenstar and Rowanclaw/star cousins. Making Brokenstar a third(?) cousin to Tigerstar II.
So Tawnypelt’s children and grandchildren have the blood of two villainous dictators, not just one. Unfortunate that Brokenstar isn’t around anymore, I imagine he would have loved to twist Shadowsight’s head. Also may have succeeded in killing him.
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Aroace
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𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑
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Post by 𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑 on Nov 5, 2021 15:20:57 GMT -5
That is actually wild.
I would have been terrified for Shadowsight if he had ever encountered Brokenstar when he was roaming the DF.
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Nov 5, 2021 15:31:14 GMT -5
oh man its weird to think they're related. i had to look at one of my trees to see just how close they are.
would they be first cousins once removed or something?
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Post by Katanaheart on Nov 5, 2021 15:34:46 GMT -5
That is actually wild. I would have been terrified for Shadowsight if he had ever encountered Brokenstar when he was roaming the DF. Indeed! Considering Brokenstar treated his cousins (Volepaw and Mosspaw) horribly already. (Unfortunately the lineage itself wasn’t mentioned much in YS.) I do think Brokenstar would act worse to those he’s related too, in comparison to other villains who’d at least put up some facade.
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Post by Katanaheart on Nov 5, 2021 15:35:21 GMT -5
oh man its weird to think they're related. i had to look at one of my trees to see just how close they are. would they be first cousins once removed or something? I’m uncertain, exactly. Cousins are always weird for me to calculate and remember their order. But I think that’s right?
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Post by Katanaheart on Nov 5, 2021 15:36:55 GMT -5
Now that I think about it… Wasn’t it Brokenstar who gave the test to murder Flametail or was that someone else?
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Post by Moonblazer on Nov 5, 2021 15:37:42 GMT -5
I always did love this relation because I always wanted to know what it would have been like for Rowanstar and Cedarheart had they been born juuuust a bit earlier. They probably would have been kit soldiers to their own cousin. I also like the thought of Rowan and Tawny bonding over their crappy evil kin and being like “Let’s agree to not be like them, sound good?”
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Post by Katanaheart on Nov 5, 2021 15:40:47 GMT -5
I always did love this relation because I always wanted to know what it would have been like for Rowanstar and Cedarheart had they been born juuuust a bit earlier. They probably would have been kit soldiers to their own cousin. I also like the thought of Rowan and Tawny bonding over their crappy evil kin and being like “Let’s agree to not be like them, sound good?” Luckily being born later did save them in the end. But it could have been some bonding experience for Tawny and Rowan, if Rowanclaw had lived through his cousin’s violent leadership. Although there’s likely a canon reason for it not be mentioned, I doubt Scorchwind would be pleased to mention that a very dangerous figure in ShadowClan’s past was very closely related to his sons.
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Aroace
#ffa100
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Villain Enjoyer
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Post by 𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑 on Nov 5, 2021 15:43:56 GMT -5
That is actually wild. I would have been terrified for Shadowsight if he had ever encountered Brokenstar when he was roaming the DF. Indeed! Considering Brokenstar treated his cousins (Volepaw and Mosspaw) horribly already. (Unfortunately the lineage itself wasn’t mentioned much in YS.) I do think Brokenstar would act worse to those he’s related too, in comparison to other villains who’d at least put up some facade. For sure. If Shadowsight were to encounter Tigerstar I (his great-grandfather) instead of Brokenstar he would have probably been manipulated with sweet promises of power and empty words of appreciation like Tigerclaw/star treated Lionblaze in PoT who wasn't even directly related to him. Brokenstar would have just outright threatened Shadowsight to do his bidding or perish.
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Aroace
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Villain Enjoyer
Taking a break from the forums because my cat died. Will probably be back mid to late October.
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Post by 𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑 on Nov 5, 2021 15:45:01 GMT -5
Now that I think about it… Wasn’t it Brokenstar who gave the test to murder Flametail or was that someone else? Yup. It was Brokenstar who ordered Ivypaw to murder the lost ghost of Flametail at the end of Night Whispers.
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Post by Katanaheart on Nov 5, 2021 16:00:21 GMT -5
Now that I think about it… Wasn’t it Brokenstar who gave the test to murder Flametail or was that someone else? Yup. It was Brokenstar who ordered Ivypaw to murder the lost ghost of Flametail at the end of Night Whispers. Brokenstar not caring that he’s having one of his cousin’s kids watch his brother be potentially murdered. I imagine Tigerstar also pulled the family card with Tigerheart since he was also a trainee. (Especially since the latter is the namesake of the former.)
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Aroace
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Villain Enjoyer
Taking a break from the forums because my cat died. Will probably be back mid to late October.
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Post by 𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑 on Nov 5, 2021 16:11:26 GMT -5
Yup. It was Brokenstar who ordered Ivypaw to murder the lost ghost of Flametail at the end of Night Whispers. Brokenstar not caring that he’s having one of his cousin’s kids watch his brother be potentially murdered. I imagine Tigerstar also pulled the family card with Tigerheart since he was also a trainee. (Especially since the latter is the namesake of the former.) What can anyone really expect from a cat that was literally prophecised by StarClan to be pure evil? Oh, most certainly. I actually hoped to see some flashback scenes of Tigerheart's Dark Forest training and how he was recruited by them (definitely by Tigerstar himself) but instead the whole book is about rehashed TigerDove drama from AVoS and him getting portrayed as a hero despite being arrogant and indecisive almost the entire time.
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Post by Moonblazer on Nov 5, 2021 16:11:58 GMT -5
I always did love this relation because I always wanted to know what it would have been like for Rowanstar and Cedarheart had they been born juuuust a bit earlier. They probably would have been kit soldiers to their own cousin. I also like the thought of Rowan and Tawny bonding over their crappy evil kin and being like “Let’s agree to not be like them, sound good?” Luckily being born later did save them in the end. But it could have been some bonding experience for Tawny and Rowan, if Rowanclaw had lived through his cousin’s violent leadership. Although there’s likely a canon reason for it not be mentioned, I doubt Scorchwind would be pleased to mention that a very dangerous figure in ShadowClan’s past was very closely related to his sons. Could be cool if Brokenstar tried to tempt Rowanstar to train in the DF like Tigerstar did to Tawnypelt and them both telling their evil kin to eat rocks.
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Post by Katanaheart on Nov 5, 2021 16:22:10 GMT -5
Brokenstar not caring that he’s having one of his cousin’s kids watch his brother be potentially murdered. I imagine Tigerstar also pulled the family card with Tigerheart since he was also a trainee. (Especially since the latter is the namesake of the former.) What can anyone really expect from a cat that was literally prophecised by StarClan to be pure evil? Oh, most certainly. I actually hoped to see some flashback scenes of Tigerheart's Dark Forest training and how he was recruited by them (definitely by Tigerstar himself) but instead the whole book is about rehashed TigerDove drama from AVoS and him getting portrayed as a hero despite being arrogant and indecisive almost the entire time. Brokenstar being purely evil truly makes him a despicable character for me.
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Post by Katanaheart on Nov 5, 2021 16:22:43 GMT -5
Luckily being born later did save them in the end. But it could have been some bonding experience for Tawny and Rowan, if Rowanclaw had lived through his cousin’s violent leadership. Although there’s likely a canon reason for it not be mentioned, I doubt Scorchwind would be pleased to mention that a very dangerous figure in ShadowClan’s past was very closely related to his sons. Could be cool if Brokenstar tried to tempt Rowanstar to train in the DF like Tigerstar did to Tawnypelt and them both telling their evil kin to eat rocks. I can’t see many recruitments from Brokenstar ever going well, although it would have been amusing.
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Post by Katanaheart on Nov 5, 2021 16:23:06 GMT -5
Now that I think about it, Dawnpelt could have been an excellent DF trainer. But nope, all Tigerheart plot.
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Aroace
#ffa100
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𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑
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Post by 𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑 on Nov 5, 2021 16:27:24 GMT -5
What can anyone really expect from a cat that was literally prophecised by StarClan to be pure evil? Oh, most certainly. I actually hoped to see some flashback scenes of Tigerheart's Dark Forest training and how he was recruited by them (definitely by Tigerstar himself) but instead the whole book is about rehashed TigerDove drama from AVoS and him getting portrayed as a hero despite being arrogant and indecisive almost the entire time. Brokenstar being purely evil truly makes him a despicable character for me. I prefer Tigerstar (the first) over Brokenstar as a villain because he was also cliche but at least entertaining and a whole lot smarter (or just more creative) when doing his evil deeds (using charisma and manipulation). Brokenstar is boring in a horrifying way if that even makes any sort of sense.
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Post by Katanaheart on Nov 5, 2021 16:34:42 GMT -5
Brokenstar being purely evil truly makes him a despicable character for me. I prefer Tigerstar (the first) over Brokenstar as a villain because he was also cliche but at least entertaining and a whole lot smarter (or just more creative) when doing his evil deeds (using charisma and manipulation). Brokenstar is boring in a horrifying way if that even makes any sort of sense. Tigerstar as a villain is more enjoyable as he smarter and lives longer. (Not to mention most of his acts are direct and present. Most of Brokenstar’s aren’t fully seen in the main series.) Brokenstar’s concept itself and being the only one that we know of, gives a more darker edge to him from a conceptual standpoint, for me. He is a predestined curse of evil, with no amount of positivity. (Tigerstar just seemed to be like some cat who was just supposed to not have lived and StarClan seemed to simply panicked as a result.) I feel like if Brokenstar hadn’t been pre-destined evil child, he would have just been like Mothpelt, except even more angry and bratty. (Mothpelt is a SkyClan cat who was around before deputies followed leader in rank order. He made foolish decisions after his father’s death as SkyClan’s technical leader. He was at least usurped by his medicine cat and his father’s actual deputy was made leader instead since Mothpelt was highly reckless and carelessly risked lives due to vengeance.) I imagine Brokenstar would be similar to Mothpelt in the spoiled son, immediately leader routine.
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Aroace
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Villain Enjoyer
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Post by 𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑 on Nov 5, 2021 16:41:06 GMT -5
I prefer Tigerstar (the first) over Brokenstar as a villain because he was also cliche but at least entertaining and a whole lot smarter (or just more creative) when doing his evil deeds (using charisma and manipulation). Brokenstar is boring in a horrifying way if that even makes any sort of sense. Tigerstar as a villain is more enjoyable as he smarter and lives longer. (Not to mention most of his acts are direct and present. Most of Brokenstar’s aren’t fully seen in the main series.) Brokenstar’s concept itself and being the only one that we know of, gives a more darker edge to him from a conceptual standpoint, for me. He is a predestined curse of evil, with no amount of positivity. (Tigerstar just seemed to be like some cat who was just supposed to not have lived and StarClan seemed to simply panicked as a result.) I feel like if Brokenstar hadn’t been pre-destined evil child, he would have just been like Mothpelt, except even more angry and bratty. (Mothpelt is a SkyClan cat who was around before deputies followed leader in rank order. He made foolish decisions after his father’s death as SkyClan’s technical leader. He was at least usurped by his medicine cat and his father’s actual deputy was made leader instead since Mothpelt was highly reckless and carelessly risked lives due to vengeance.) I imagine Brokenstar would be similar to Mothpelt in the spoiled son, immediately leader routine. I agree about Brokenstar being more like Mothpelt if he had not been born evil and was instead just spoiled rotten by Raggedstar until his death after which he would have probably demanded to become the next ShadowClan leader due to believing it was his birthright or something like that. It seems both Tigerstar (I) and Brokenstar have the bad omen/destined to be evil thing in common with each other.
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Asexual
#07B04C
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Ṣanɗypaw™
The Shiny User
🎵Guess that's just the way it goes, easy come, easy go🎵
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Post by Ṣanɗypaw™ on Nov 5, 2021 17:29:40 GMT -5
This makes Flametail's "At least I'm not descended from someone evil" remark even more ironic lmao.
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Aroace
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Post by 𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑 on Nov 5, 2021 17:36:01 GMT -5
This makes Flametail's "At least I'm not descended from someone evil" remark even more ironic lmao. Oh my StarClan! He really said that? Can you tell me when because I cannot remember? Flametail must have forgotten who his grandfather was in that moment to say something so dumb!
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Asexual
#07B04C
star_black.png
Name Colour
Ṣanɗypaw™
The Shiny User
🎵Guess that's just the way it goes, easy come, easy go🎵
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Post by Ṣanɗypaw™ on Nov 5, 2021 17:38:33 GMT -5
This makes Flametail's "At least I'm not descended from someone evil" remark even more ironic lmao. Oh my StarClan! He really said that? Can you tell me when because I cannot remember? Flametail must have forgotten who his grandfather was in that moment to say something so dumb! I believe he did so to Lionblaze in Night Whispers but I can't find the quote right now.
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Cloudy Sky
*briefly emerges from under my massive pile of schoolwork* I LIVE
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Post by Cloudy Sky on Nov 6, 2021 5:27:33 GMT -5
Oh my StarClan! He really said that? Can you tell me when because I cannot remember? Flametail must have forgotten who his grandfather was in that moment to say something so dumb! I believe he did so to Lionblaze in Night Whispers but I can't find the quote right now. He's referencing Russetfur's death.
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Aroace
#ffa100
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𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑
Villain Enjoyer
Taking a break from the forums because my cat died. Will probably be back mid to late October.
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Post by 𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑 on Nov 6, 2021 10:02:59 GMT -5
I believe he did so to Lionblaze in Night Whispers but I can't find the quote right now. He's referencing Russetfur's death. Thank you for posting the quote! And yeah, the context with Lionblaze "killing" Russetfur (he just dragged her away from Firestar though) is important but that doesn't change the fact that Flametail still shares blood with a murderer (his grandfather Tigerstar).
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