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Post by Aqua on Nov 4, 2021 8:44:45 GMT -5
So I'm finally donating my first warriors books (and many others as well) and I skimmed a few scenes & chapters. Honestly, the first series really isn't all that great imo. The characters? Pretty good. Bluestar had interesting growth, Silver x Gray even had their good moments together (despite how annoying they were) and I forgot about Cloudpaw(tail); I loved him when I was younger! He was selfish and immature, but learned he loved his clan and took it more seriously once he returned.
Fireheart was a good character too, and Sandpaw(storm) was fun to read. The characters were good. But the story? They made Tigerclaw as the villain so obvious, I'm honestly kind of surprised the clan didn't catch on that Tigerclaw was dangerous? It's written multiple times that he didn't like Fireheart, how he treated Ravenpaw and made up lies about his own apprentice, gave Fireheart a hard time. So it's baffling to me how no one caught onto his behavior - especially Bluestar of all characters - and finding nothing suspicious. You'd think that Thistleclaw training Tigerclaw would give Bluestar some suspicions, but she doesn't even question that!
The writing is really weird in the series, but it's definitely a lot more detailed and descriptive. The newer books just don't have that fascinating detail anymore like they did in the first or even the second series. A lot of the characters are so bland now, or so many are focused on romance. They don't even bother using the background characters anymore unless it's a death.
Heck, Goldenflower was a great background character! I loved her fierce personality and how she was protective of her kits, refusing to let the clan judge them based on who their father was. She was always my favorite background character because of that. I liked her fierce, protective personality haha.
Now it feels like a lot of the characters don't mature, or they have no personality. Even though the first series' writing quality was a little weird, I've always felt that it was 10x better than the crap we have now.
Y'all free to have your own opinion if you want, idrc, but I kinda had fun rereading some of these scenes/chapters from the older series. What a huge difference compared to the books we get now.
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Post by iskey on Nov 4, 2021 8:48:38 GMT -5
I miss the quality of the first series and Dawn of the Clans
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Post by fire on Nov 4, 2021 9:06:58 GMT -5
The first series was really good. Had a great cast of characters (Firestar, Graystripe, Sandstorm, Dustpelt, Ravenpaw, Whitestorm, Bluestar, etc.), and a pretty good plot for its time. I feel like if there weren't as many changes to the timeline around the TPB-era, some things wouldn't feel so weird about it. But the series is iconic for a reason. Iconic deaths, dramatic moments, situations, etc. It was definitely a great opener into the series; had a lot of things to love about it, but that's my opinion.
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Post by The One and Only Moongaze on Nov 4, 2021 9:33:34 GMT -5
I love the first series. I think it is the best one
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Aroace
#ffa100
Name Colour
𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑
Villain Enjoyer
Taking a break from the forums because my cat died. Will probably be back mid to late October.
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Post by 𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑 on Nov 4, 2021 11:29:02 GMT -5
The original first arc is my second favorite one in the entire series. I love all of the characters and their various storylines. While I'm in agreement that Tigerclaw/star was rather obvious and cliche as a villain (like Brokenstar) he is still one of my most favorite cats out of the entire cast. And what needs to remembered about TPB is that it was originally only supposed to be three books long (so just a trilogy) and is also intended for children/young teens so overly complicated plotlines and a hidden evil were not really an option. The writing team did try a more subtle approach with Ashfur in PoT but even he shows early signs of not being truly trustworthy there.
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Post by seantheskyhunter on Nov 4, 2021 12:20:08 GMT -5
The first series actually had background characters that were memorable. Not so many cats. One PoV. Dozens of antagonists and tragic deaths, unlike the other series where the villains are reused and every cat survives for more then 2 arcs. The mc is an apprentice only for one book. And the only arc who had a plot twist in the end. So yes, of course I remember it
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Cloudstorm
Don’t let it kill you. Even when it hurts like hell.
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Post by Cloudstorm on Nov 4, 2021 13:28:13 GMT -5
Honestly the first 2 arcs are the only ones I find memorable enough to be worth rereading , DoTC probably as well , once I’ve finally read through the whole series . PoT had great characterization , but have no plot so meh.
First series had fantastic characterization , Background characters had personality , Fireheart was a great protagonist, deaths had depth and soul , since they actually had connection/relationships with the main character and good Screentime , plot may be a tad cliche , and has its flaws and holes , but it’s cohesive , immersive and every dramatic scene/death left an emotional impact on the reader , and tamed you truly felt like you were in the protagonist shoes experiencing there turmoil/lose/pain etc , which is what a book should do, you empathized and felt the characters struggles , it was visceral and a one hell of ride to read through .
Nowadays most characters feel so bland/reused and receive so little Screentime and character/personality development , even on a rudimentary level , makes the universe feel to empty . Death scenes just roll past me majority of the time now since most of the time , it’s someone that’s done basically nothing meaningful in the series , had any development to make the standout in any way as an individual, except having a unique name written down on the page .
I honestly struggle to to read many of the newer books , cause they simply don’t grab my attention , and pull me into the warriors world like before . Which freakin sucks , because I truly like a lot of the aspects of the warriors series , but piss poor execution/redundant storylines can only keep my literary hunger satisfied for so long until it devolves into an absolute borefest .
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#add8e6
Name Colour
*Ravenpaw*
Warrior Fanatic
*reads books in a corner*
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Post by *Ravenpaw* on Nov 4, 2021 15:11:31 GMT -5
Pretty much only the first two series and Firestar's Quest were the best. Yeah, the story for the first series was cliché, but it was enjoyable. I loved the small cast of characters and death had a bit more meaning to it. In the newer books, the younger characters are barely used and have little personality. The stories themselves either end too soon, or the twists turn out to be crap.
And I think I'm one of the few in the fandom who doesn't mind the journey books. It's fun to see what shenanigans the characters get into. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Cloudstorm
Don’t let it kill you. Even when it hurts like hell.
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Post by Cloudstorm on Nov 4, 2021 15:19:56 GMT -5
Pretty much only the first two series and Firestar's Quest were the best. Yeah, the story for the first series was cliché, but it was enjoyable. I loved the small cast of characters and death had a bit more meaning to it. In the newer books, the younger characters are barely used and have little personality. The stories themselves either end too soon, or the twists turn out to be crap. And I think I'm one of the few in the fandom who doesn't mind the journey books. It's fun to see what shenanigans the characters get into. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ exactly , I’m in the same boat , reading them just to see what kind of shenanigans the characters are getting up too , and what type of “eye rolling” worthy Twist/cliffhanger they decide to weave this time around lol.
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#add8e6
Name Colour
*Ravenpaw*
Warrior Fanatic
*reads books in a corner*
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Post by *Ravenpaw* on Nov 4, 2021 15:37:39 GMT -5
Pretty much only the first two series and Firestar's Quest were the best. Yeah, the story for the first series was cliché, but it was enjoyable. I loved the small cast of characters and death had a bit more meaning to it. In the newer books, the younger characters are barely used and have little personality. The stories themselves either end too soon, or the twists turn out to be crap. And I think I'm one of the few in the fandom who doesn't mind the journey books. It's fun to see what shenanigans the characters get into. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ exactly , I’m in the same boat , reading them just to see what kind of shenanigans the characters are getting up too , and what type of “eye rolling” worthy Twist/cliffhanger they decide to weave this time around lol. I really like how things actually happen instead of the same questions being asked over and over. The twist from TBC deserves a million eye rolls and plenty of "Here we go again!"
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Cloudstorm
Don’t let it kill you. Even when it hurts like hell.
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Post by Cloudstorm on Nov 4, 2021 19:08:49 GMT -5
exactly , I’m in the same boat , reading them just to see what kind of shenanigans the characters are getting up too , and what type of “eye rolling” worthy Twist/cliffhanger they decide to weave this time around lol. I really like how things actually happen instead of the same questions being asked over and over. The twist from TBC deserves a million eye rolls and plenty of "Here we go again!" I’ve kept away from spoiler threads for a light in the mist . So I’ll definitely be getting some overexposure to “eye roll” moments on November 9th , and probably plenty of chuckles and uncomfortable laughter in from what I’m assuming will be a very absurd ending to TBC .
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Namara
Briarlight support squad
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Post by Namara on Nov 4, 2021 22:40:51 GMT -5
The thing that surprised me most upon revisiting the first arc was how rude Graystripe often was in book 2. I didn't particularly like him much to begin with but jeez! I feel bad for Fireheart, who was only trying to help his friend stay out of trouble wrt to the Silverstream situation, and in return Graystripe was really unnecessarily mean to him.
The first arc still holds a special place in my heart, and I agree that some aspects (such as the smaller cast, more meaningful deaths, better sense of community amongst the characters, etc.) are better than the later arcs. But like the rest of the series, the writing is far from stellar and it's a classic case of "great concepts, poor execution" so a lot of my appreciation for it is more related to interpretations/imagination as opposed to the actual writing itself. I still love characters such as Cinderpelt and Yellowfang, even though they could have been written better.
They made Tigerclaw as the villain so obvious, I'm honestly kind of surprised the clan didn't catch on that Tigerclaw was dangerous? It's written multiple times that he didn't like Fireheart, how he treated Ravenpaw and made up lies about his own apprentice, gave Fireheart a hard time. So it's baffling to me how no one caught onto his behavior - especially Bluestar of all characters - and finding nothing suspicious. You'd think that Thistleclaw training Tigerclaw would give Bluestar some suspicions, but she doesn't even question that! One of the many instances in WC where the characters have to be unrealistically oblivious in order for a plot to work at all. Right up there with nobody realizing that Brokenkit was Yellowfang's son, for example.
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Cloudstorm
Don’t let it kill you. Even when it hurts like hell.
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Post by Cloudstorm on Nov 5, 2021 0:06:37 GMT -5
The original first arc is my second favorite one in the entire series. I love all of the characters and their various storylines. While I'm in agreement that Tigerclaw/star was rather obvious and cliche as a villain (like Brokenstar) he is still one of my most favorite cats out of the entire cast. And what needs to remembered about TPB is that it was originally only supposed to be three books long (so just a trilogy) and is also intended for children/young teens so overly complicated plotlines and a hidden evil were not really an option. The writing team did try a more subtle approach with Ashfur in PoT but even he shows early signs of not being truly trustworthy there. TNP was the arc that was originally supposed to be a trilogy . TPB was first intended to be a Standalone , one-and-done book with into the wild , then later got expanded into a 6 book arc . But the rest of your post I agree with mostly , and avoiding overly complicated storylines for a series intended to read by 8-12 year olds was probably the best approach , though with the large number of fans of older age they have nowadays , they should cut back on the cartoonish plots , and add more depth and realism , and just overall execute much stronger writing in general .
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Aroace
#ffa100
Name Colour
𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑
Villain Enjoyer
Taking a break from the forums because my cat died. Will probably be back mid to late October.
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Post by 𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑 on Nov 5, 2021 14:19:16 GMT -5
The original first arc is my second favorite one in the entire series. I love all of the characters and their various storylines. While I'm in agreement that Tigerclaw/star was rather obvious and cliche as a villain (like Brokenstar) he is still one of my most favorite cats out of the entire cast. And what needs to remembered about TPB is that it was originally only supposed to be three books long (so just a trilogy) and is also intended for children/young teens so overly complicated plotlines and a hidden evil were not really an option. The writing team did try a more subtle approach with Ashfur in PoT but even he shows early signs of not being truly trustworthy there. TNP was the arc that was originally supposed to be a trilogy . TPB was first intended to be a Standalone , one-and-done book with into the wild , then later got expanded into a 6 book arc . But the rest of your post I agree with mostly , and avoiding overly complicated storylines for a series intended to read by 8-12 year olds was probably the best approach , though with the large number of fans of older age they have nowadays , they should cut back on the cartoonish plots , and add more depth and realism , and just overall execute much stronger writing in general . You are right. I just checked the wiki and while it says what you wrote about the first arc originally being supposed to be a oneshot and then got expanded into six books I do remember reading somewhere (probably got retconned or was unsourced) that Forest of Secrets was supposed to be an open ending for further interpretation in regards to the Fire vs Tiger rivalry. Although there was also something else on Bluestar's Trivia page some time ago which said she was supposed to be originally named Moonstar, much younger than what she ended up being and Fireheart/star's love interest in the first draft of this arc. I hope the latter is not true (has been removed except the Moonstar name) so the former might have also just been edited by someone with no credible knowledge of the TPB arcs origins.
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#add8e6
Name Colour
*Ravenpaw*
Warrior Fanatic
*reads books in a corner*
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Post by *Ravenpaw* on Nov 5, 2021 15:39:16 GMT -5
I really like how things actually happen instead of the same questions being asked over and over. The twist from TBC deserves a million eye rolls and plenty of "Here we go again!" I’ve kept away from spoiler threads for a light in the mist . So I’ll definitely be getting some overexposure to “eye roll” moments on November 9th , and probably plenty of chuckles and uncomfortable laughter in from what I’m assuming will be a very absurd ending to TBC . I've kept away from the spoiler thread, too. There's no point of reading a book for the first time if you already know what happens. Same. Perhaps there'll be raising eyebrow moments, too. But we'll see.
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