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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Nov 4, 2021 21:23:07 GMT -5
concerning rootspring in the last pages of ALITM form spine's spoiler thread: rootspring is so god damn selfish too. he was going to say eff u to his whole family to join thunderclan for bristlefrost? what a selfish little brat. i'd be heartbroken if i were violetshine or needleclaw.
even if he did move clans, he'd be just like dovewing: agonizing over meeting his friends and family in battle someday. what if there was a thunderclan vs skyclan conflict in the future and he had to listen to his new thunderclan clanmates crap talk his former skyclan clanmates? would he have a heart and feel bad for his former skyclan clanmates?
thereis NO such thing as what rootspring is talking about in the last pages of TBC. there is no way someone can move clans and sucessfully cut all feelings and ties to cats they were raised with.
this is only different from violet and twig because they were raised in different circumstances and not alongside skyclan. violetshine had hawkwing, and since shadowclan sucked so bad for her, she had no lignering feelings or ties to it. and twigbranch stuck with thunderclan bc she was RAISED there, and had no ties with skyclan despite knowing her bio dad lived there.
but rootspring? that little brat was born and raisedin skyclan and couldnt even fathom what it'd be like to actually leave it all behind for some girl he barely knew.
also what would fernsong and ivypool think if they knew bristle's last thoughts alive were only of some guy from another clan she barely knew and not of them? or her siblings? i'd be doubly heartbroken to know my child didnt think of me at all during her last moments.
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Post by BҽɾɾყႦʅσσɱ on Nov 5, 2021 14:37:25 GMT -5
Did I miss something? Why is Turtlecrawl an option again? Wasn't she straight up just nasty to Rootspring at the start? Or is it because people want yet another echo to SandFire? Agreed! I don't want another FireSand, BrambleSquirrel or HawkPebble anytime soon, to be honest. I'm probably the only one in this but seeing how Rootspring was thinking about moving to ThunderClan for Bristlefrost I think it would still be interesting if he does that in her honor, grieves and heals properly in the background for a bit (a few books) and eventually could get with Spotfur after helping her raise her and Stemleaf's kits previously. Just an idea (that will probably not happen).
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Nov 5, 2021 16:47:59 GMT -5
that's why i like her death so much because it's the bristlefrost we had in the first book, so i think her end is fitting for her it still bothers me that she thought about root rather than the future of her clan or her parents or her siblings.
there is no such thing as a healthy forbidden romance because it's the very definition of selfishness and it hurts others. cats in forbidden romance plots mostly think of only themselves.
even if u THINK u love some stranger enough to move clans to be with them, u will still hurt ur family and betray ur family. u'll make ur family think u dont love themor u never cared for nor appreciated all they've done for ur whole life.
there is no such thing as a healthy forbidden romance...just look at dovewing. despite moving clans, she still insisted on seeing her sister despite that being against the rules. u cant have ur cake and eat it too. by picking some stranger over ur clan and family, its a literal eff you to everyone who helped raise u.
i'll forever be bothered that bristle's last thoughts were of some dude and not her family...she was selfish even in her death. it's just wrong to me. But she was thinking of her family and her clan, all of the clans actually. It's why she dragged Ashfur down with her in the first place. If she hadn't been thinking about them she could have easily just escaped, as much as Ashfur could have, but she chose to sacrifice herself for the sake of her clan. When she was looking up at the surface the last cat she saw was Rootspring, it would make sense that her last thoughts were the future they could have had in ThunderClan together.
Also, it's a bit unfair to compare Bristle and Dovewing's situations. TigerDove have been proven to be utterly dysfunctional constantly form the get go of OotS. Dovewing was literally leaking information from her clan, and Tigerheart took advantage of her because of that. They also broke up on and off, and Dovewing could have cared less about her clan and duties considering she was constantly sneaking off to see Tigerheart, and lying to her kin's face. This was dragged out so long she even had time to use another tom in an attempt to get over the first one, which was just wrong. Not to mention the entire SE dedicated to her running away from her problems and dragging everyone into a wild goose chase, while also indirectly causing the fall of ShadowClan.
In comparison, RootBristle may have had a rocky start, but they actually weren't ONLY thinking about each other. Bristlefrost was dealing with her clan falling apart, Ashfur's manipulation, and feeling isolated in her own clan while struggling to hold on to what relationships she had left. She also felt conflicted on whether she should help keep Bramblestar's body alive, or fully ally with the rebels and execute him. She eventually came to a resolve that she wanted to be there for her clan, and support them, especially Spotfur, while also acknowledging the complications of her reactions to death and romance. She didn't want to just jump into an illegal relationship with Rootspring even if she reciprocated his feelings. She debated the idea of switching clans, but in the end chose her own, wanting to put her clan first despite her love for Rootspring. However Rootspring also thought about weighing his options, between his relationship with family, and finally feeling like he belonged in SkyClan, he debated if he would be willing to switch clans to be happy with Bristlefrost. In the end he would have chose her over his clan.
Neither of them lied, or went behind their clans back, neither of them had kits and ran away from their problems. If anything they were quite honest about their feelings. Bristlefrost even talks to Ivypool of all people about her conflictions, while Rootspring confided in his extended family. And in the end even proclaimed his feelings in front of ALL the clans, showing no shame that he has feelings for Bristlefrost and wanted there to be change in the code.
Imo there's nothing wrong with cats switching clans to be with the ones they love. The issue comes when they lie to their kin and clanmates, and repeatedly break the code without any actual dedication of their relationship after hastily jumping into one. I may be a fan of SilverGray but even I can admit how much of a disaster half of it was because of the sneaking around. It's why I think BristleRoot, despite the difficult start, would have been the most healthy forbidden relationship so far in the series, even if it ended the way it did.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Nov 5, 2021 16:52:52 GMT -5
Did I miss something? Why is Turtlecrawl an option again? Wasn't she straight up just nasty to Rootspring at the start? Or is it because people want yet another echo to SandFire? Agreed! I don't want another FireSand, BrambleSquirrel or HawkPebble anytime soon, to be honest. I'm probably the only one in this but seeing how Rootspring was thinking about moving to ThunderClan for Bristlefrost I think it would still be interesting if he does that in her honor, grieves and heals properly in the background for a bit (a few books) and eventually could get with Spotfur after helping her raise her and Stemleaf's kits previously. Just an idea (that will probably not happen). I can see where you're coming from, I think in fanon it's a nice idea, but I don't see it working in canon tbh. But yeah I agree, I'm not really a fan of the "they bullied me and then got together later" trope being shoved onto every WC pairing. I don't know why some continuously want to echo SandFire in other pairings. BrambleSquirrel could have worked but was dragged out to the point that it's awful, and any likeness it had is now gone. While HawkPebble was such a dry pairing it wasn't even funny, they barely had any development, before and after getting together, before Pebble got iced.
I also think that it would be better for Rootspring to stay in SkyClan. He made it clear to everyone that he was in love with Bristlefrost and would have been willing to switch clans for her, but now that she's gone it really doesn't make sense for him to leave SkyClan. I feel that because he was so honest and up front about how he felt, his clanmates felt more sympathy for him over anger, because of him grieving her death. It really is a shame that Bristle and him didn't even get a chance, but it is what it is. I guess I'm just glad that BristleRoot didn't end up like DoveTiger 2.0 or TwigFin, ugh.
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Post by Cloudy Sky on Nov 6, 2021 5:47:04 GMT -5
Also, as I read the books I remember picking up hints that she liked him as well, but it was quite subtle. Do you remember when? I know she liked him as a friend, but I really don't remember any hints—subtle or otherwise—that she liked him romantically prior to the confession scene. I don't remember the exact quotes, but I remember that there was one I think in The Silent Thaw, where she wondered what Rootspring thought about something, then thought that she shouldn't worry about Rootspring thought because he was a SkyClan cat. I thought her reasoning was odd, since as you said, they're friends in that book. I see how it could be interpreted differently though.
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Post by ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁 on Nov 6, 2021 5:56:43 GMT -5
I honestly think you're being way too harsh on it, but oh well. If you're really this upset, it may be best to take a break from the series.
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Post by Aqua on Nov 6, 2021 17:54:43 GMT -5
I honestly think you're being way too harsh on it, but oh well. If you're really this upset, it may be best to take a break from the series. You're a cool friend, Rainers, and I like talking to you, but let Lady be angry at fictional cat book characters if she wants to be. She isn't doing anything wrong, just complaining about book characters.
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Nov 6, 2021 18:21:57 GMT -5
I honestly think you're being way too harsh on it, but oh well. If you're really this upset, it may be best to take a break from the series. You're a cool friend, Rainers, and I like talking to you, but let Lady be angry at fictional cat book characters if she wants to be. She isn't doing anything wrong, just complaining about book characters. exactly. besides, i got what i needed out of my system anyways, so i am moving on from this anyways (which is why im not replying to anything on my threads and letting them get pushed down to the second page). i dont need to be told what to do like im some kid. thanks.
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Post by Goldy from Dappleclan on Nov 9, 2021 16:13:57 GMT -5
Gotta agree, I liked Rootpaw as an apprentice and then the romance made him boring
Again, Bristlefrost was also a better character before the romance
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Nov 9, 2021 20:26:31 GMT -5
Would of preferred personally that it remained an unreciprocated crush that Rootspring eventually got over , and moved on with his life . While I don’t know if I’d exactly consider the pairing Forced , it does feel like in my eyes that bristlefrost became interested in Rootspring out of desperation , and needing a rebound option after being rejected by stemleaf , and he happened to fill the void of her desire for affection and intimacy not being fulfilled , there’s really no cohesive foundation for them to really start developing feelings for eachother aside from the need for yet another forbidden romance , that I would of been perfectly happy without , cause it unnecessarily consumed far too much valuable screentime that could been used to add explanations too the many unanswered questions and plotholes that plague this arc . i agree. i would have preferred if bristlefrost was self aware and knew she was just using rootpaw because of her unreciprocated feelings for stemleaf. she'd realize it was wrong and tell rootspring the truth and they'd end things as just friends. if i could re-write their relationship, that's how i'd write it if they weren't going to happen. if i were going to write it as a legit ship that DOES happen? simple. make bristlefrost compare rootspring to stemleaf, just like how dovewing did with bumble and tiger. that's a clear way to show the POV Character links them. there's a lot of things to fix all this, but i'd prefer root x bristle never happened at all.
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