#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Oct 30, 2021 10:47:03 GMT -5
Are there any current SEs you thought would've been better suited as novellas and vice versa? MV is definitely this for me for novellas. And are there any you just found to be completely unnecessary?
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Post by thewinterblaze on Oct 30, 2021 11:03:27 GMT -5
Apart from the obvious one, Spottedleaf's Heart(which is arguably the worst book in the series) I felt like most of the novellas are unnecessary, since they often contradict canon and don't really add much of importance compared to the SEs, which have some gems like Crookedstar's Promise, and even the ones on the lower end of the popularity scale add to the books.
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𝔖𝔬𝔯𝔯𝔢𝔩
uh.. I really like sorreltail
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Post by 𝔖𝔬𝔯𝔯𝔢𝔩 on Oct 30, 2021 11:06:52 GMT -5
Redtail’s debt puts a giant hole on how Oakheart dies, and honestly I feel many other characters could of done with a much more interesting novella instead of him
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Aroace
#ffa100
Name Colour
𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑
Villain Enjoyer
Taking a break from the forums because my cat died. Will probably be back mid to late October.
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Post by 𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑 on Oct 30, 2021 12:00:12 GMT -5
SEs that should have been Novellas: Tigerheart's Shadow (most of it already happened or was explained in the AVoS arc) Leopardstar's Honor (just a recap of TPB with at least some interesting added scenes)
Novellas that should have been SEs: Mistystar's Omen (so she did not become a poll option for this year) Tigerclaw's Fury (a villain PoV from this classic menace could have been amazing although I'm biased)
Unnecessary SEs and Novellas: Bramblestar's Storm (some of the character moments were wonderful but the overall plot was written boring) Squirrelflight's Hope (most of the character moments were infuriating/felt OoC and The Sisters are horrible) Redtail's Debt (it retconned/messed up how Oakheart died) Spottedleaf's Heart (Thistleclaw was not a good cat before but this book made him even worse)
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Cloudstorm
Don’t let it kill you. Even when it hurts like hell.
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Post by Cloudstorm on Oct 30, 2021 14:43:17 GMT -5
Honestly I don’t have any SE’s that would of preferred to be novellas . I Feel most of them are pretty solid in there own right . Ig Squirrelflights Hope ( since this book doesn’t need over 400 pages to bridge the gap between AVoS and TBC , or set us up for Ashfurs take over . and also I think they should put a warning sticker on the cover saying CAUTION : POLITICAL INCORRECTNESS OVERLOAD, viewers discretion is advised , just cause I’d find it funny ).
Novellas I would of liked to have been SE’s
Tigerclaws fury ( Simply because we need a Villain PoV SE already , come on Erins , step up your game).
Novellas I find unnecessary “breathes out’ oh boy is this Gonna get rough .
Spottedleafs heart . Let’s get the obvious out of the way , making her originally Wanting the path of a warrior when imo its pretty clear she always wished to be a medicine cat Was unnecessary. Though with her being Groomed as a teenager by Thistleclaw , and her having feelings for someone much older then her , puts Into Context her creepy , stalking Habits of before , and unhealthy/gross and lustful Obsession over Fireheart .
Redtails debit (retcons for the win .)
Dovewings silence
. While the Book is a decent piece to read , and is intended to give better closure to the 3’s story arc following the conclusion of OoTS , specifically Dovewing finally finding complacency and her Role in Thunderclan , and being able to live a normal life after the prophecies fulfilled like she wanted apparently. Only to get tossed out the Window immediately with the very next Book in the main series (Bramblestars Storm) and every entry afterwards , so begs the question , why was this book even written?
Mapleshades vengeance. I much preferred the mystique and obscurity surrounding her character and ambitions .
Trees Roots . While i personally enjoyed it , and I was really sympathetic to Tree , with how awful he was treated by the sisters , especially His mother Moonlight . All it did was make me long for the sociable, tenderhearted character he was in this book , and dislike the estranged , distant loner he’s in the main series even more . Though I do understand why he became that way , still don’t like it though.
Leafpools Wish . I’m gonna leave this blank for the time being , as it’s going to take an enormous amount of deliberation/pensive musing over in order for me to Gather my thoughts and Critical opinions on this Dumpster-fire of a convoluted/inconsistent/nonsensical Mess that Enflames me with Burning Hatred . I’ll come back and edit this section later .
Mothwings Secret : wasn’t a bad book , but just really didn’t add much imo .
SE’s that I find unnecessary.
Tigerhearts Shadow : while there is definitely some parts i thoroughly enjoyed , most notably the guardian cats and the other loners that Tigerheart encountered , and the first time a train was introduced into the series , that’s cool . But Would of preferred if Tigerheart and Dovewing just got permanently erased from the series all together and never returned .
Squirrelflights Hope( just scrap the first 300 pages, return to the typewriter , and just please rewrite this Horrific mess that you’ve Penned into existence Kate Cary , I don’t need to feel anymore Ire towards you ).
Think that’s everything for now
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Asexual
#07B04C
star_black.png
Name Colour
Ṣanɗypaw™
The Shiny User
🎵Guess that's just the way it goes, easy come, easy go🎵
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Post by Ṣanɗypaw™ on Oct 30, 2021 17:15:14 GMT -5
Even though it was a good book, I still think that Graystripe's SE shouldn't have been written. There was no need to give an already-prominent character a book imo.
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Post by seantheskyhunter on Oct 31, 2021 3:31:51 GMT -5
I honestly am not in SEs or novellas so I might say something wrong. But imo Daisy's Kin is extremely useless to the plot.
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Post by crowspirit on Oct 31, 2021 3:57:22 GMT -5
I think Pebbleshine's Kits was super unnecessary. The kittypets and the dog - cat friendship were nice, but we didn't get anything new or interesting really. I also think Bramblestarʼs Storm was super boring – except for Minty and Stormcloud.
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Post by seantheskyhunter on Oct 31, 2021 5:40:10 GMT -5
I think Pebbleshine's Kits was super unnecessary. The kittypets and the dog - cat friendship were nice, but we didn't get anything new or interesting really. I also think Bramblestarʼs Storm was super boring – except for Minty and Stormcloud. Bramblestar's storm just ruined Brambles character completely. Is the main reason why so many hate him.
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Post by Twilight Sparkle on Oct 31, 2021 7:00:53 GMT -5
Unnecessary Novellas: Pebbleshine's Kits Spottedleaf's Heart Redtail's Debt Spotfur's Rebellion
Unnecessary Super Editions: Bramblestar's Storm Graystripe's Vow SkyClan's Destiny Tigerheart's Shadow
And I think Pinestar should have had a SE over a novella.
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Post by Moonblazer on Oct 31, 2021 8:05:31 GMT -5
Squirrelflight’s Hope and Tigerheart’s Shadow don’t need to exist and I hate that they do.
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Aroace
#ffa100
Name Colour
𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑
Villain Enjoyer
Taking a break from the forums because my cat died. Will probably be back mid to late October.
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Post by 𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑 on Oct 31, 2021 8:13:11 GMT -5
I think Pebbleshine's Kits was super unnecessary. The kittypets and the dog - cat friendship were nice, but we didn't get anything new or interesting really. I also think Bramblestarʼs Storm was super boring – except for Minty and Stormcloud. Bramblestar's storm just ruined Brambles character completely. Is the main reason why so many hate him. Bramblestar's Storm was why a lot of fans thought he was a boring/generic PoV (I personally don't) while Squirrelflight's Hope was the book that made a lot of people hate him (I hated how almost everyone acted in that book especially BrambleSquirrel).
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Post by seantheskyhunter on Oct 31, 2021 12:14:00 GMT -5
Bramblestar's storm just ruined Brambles character completely. Is the main reason why so many hate him. Bramblestar's Storm was why a lot of fans thought he was a boring/generic PoV (I personally don't) while Squirrelflight's Hope was the book that made a lot of people hate him (I hated how almost everyone acted in that book especially BrambleSquirrel). True that. That's why I am not into novellas or SEs
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Post by Goldy from Dappleclan on Oct 31, 2021 12:44:36 GMT -5
Mapleshade & Pinestar should have been SEs (their generation in the old forest seems so interesting)
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Cloudstorm
Don’t let it kill you. Even when it hurts like hell.
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Post by Cloudstorm on Oct 31, 2021 13:05:55 GMT -5
Bramblestar's storm just ruined Brambles character completely. Is the main reason why so many hate him. Bramblestar's Storm was why a lot of fans thought he was a boring/generic PoV (I personally don't) while Squirrelflight's Hope was the book that made a lot of people hate him (I hated how almost everyone acted in that book especially BrambleSquirrel). suppose I’m the only one that actually Liked Bramblestars Storm , and wasn’t Bothered by his Characterization in Squirrelflights Hope . Since it’s very understandable considering the events of AVoS , and Squirrelflights Flippant, melodramatic, reckless, uncooperative, disobedient , disloyal behavior throughout the whole book , and obvious Narrative favoritism towards Squirrelflight from Kate Cary certainly isn’t doing her any favors . And Squirrelflight just standing back , hesitating to assist Bramblestar while I forgot which sister , cause I could careless to remember there names , is maliciously attempting to rip his throat out because of her internal Conflict over her Loyalties is pretty mind-boggling , and was very difficult to read .
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Aroace
#ffa100
Name Colour
𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑
Villain Enjoyer
Taking a break from the forums because my cat died. Will probably be back mid to late October.
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Post by 𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑 on Oct 31, 2021 15:12:38 GMT -5
Bramblestar's Storm was why a lot of fans thought he was a boring/generic PoV (I personally don't) while Squirrelflight's Hope was the book that made a lot of people hate him (I hated how almost everyone acted in that book especially BrambleSquirrel). suppose I’m the only one that actually Liked Bramblestars Storm , and wasn’t Bothered by his Characterization in Squirrelflights Hope . Since it’s very understandable considering the events of AVoS , and Squirrelflights Flippant, melodramatic, reckless, uncooperative, disobedient , disloyal behavior throughout the whole book , and obvious Narrative favoritism towards Squirrelflight from Kate Cary certainly isn’t doing her any favors . And Squirrelflight just standing back , hesitating to assist Bramblestar while I forgot which sister , cause I could careless to remember there names , is maliciously attempting to rip his throat out because of her internal Conflict over her Loyalties is pretty mind-boggling , and was very difficult to read . I like Bramblestar's Storm as well but only for the character moments as the overarching plot of the storm wasn't handled all that well in my opinion and felt more like a bunch of short stories put together than a cohesive whole. I also agree that Squirrelflight acted very disobedient on occasion in Squirrelflight's Hope for someone that has been a deputy so long. That being said however, Bramblestar not letting Leafpool treat a deadly injured Sunrise was one of his worst moments in it as well. Yes, she got the wound due to trespassing and attacking a ShadowClan patrol and yes, Bramblestar has a right to be angry at Squirrelflight for letting rogues into their camp who thus now know the exact location of it but this still was a cruel thing to do even for him. That is simply my opinion on this entire matter. Edit: What author favoritism? Kate Cary dislikes both Bramblestar and Squirrelflight as characters.
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Oct 31, 2021 15:20:00 GMT -5
dovewing's silence- only because nothing really happens in it and it could have been so much more imo pebbleshine's novella- the most useless and unnecessary novellas of all time if u ask me. why did they even bother writing this?
crowfeather's trial- only because his SE should have gone to breezepelt instead....crowfeather's story doesnt really do much for me and i'll always prefer breezepelt's story than his in this time period. crowfeather being made deputy is also stupid too.
spottedleaf's heart- doesnt need to exist for many reasons. it ruins thistleclaw because he was already a reasonable villain and bad guy in bluestar's SE, and he didnt need more added onto him. he was a good villain as he was. spottedleaf being a warrior apprentice first is stupid because we always used to think spottedleaf always wanted to be a medicine cat since she was so admired and stuff. another reluctant medicine cat for thunderclan? yuck, no thanks. im pretty sure the only one we have is leafpool, and leafpool is the only one who always chose being a medicine cat from the beginning of her training period...
redtail's debt- just the obscene amount of retcons, plot holes, and inconsistencies invalidates this entire story's existence....yikes
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Post by 𝔯𝔞𝔟𝔟𝔦𝔱𝔣𝔯𝔬𝔰𝔱 on Oct 31, 2021 18:22:29 GMT -5
I tend to think many of the books about characters we don't know a lot about should be SEs, and the ones about characters we know should be novellas. I think Super Editions should be books that give us a character's entire story, whereas novellas should be the ones that fill in the blanks of certain storylines. Super Editions that should be Novellas:- Bramblestar's Storm - I did really enjoy this SE, but I think it could've been squeezed into a novella just as well.
- Tigerheart's Shadow - As much as I'd like to argue that this SE was completely unnecessary, it did give us backstory on Tigerheart's disappearance and how he became leader, as well as some background on Shadowsight that would be needed down the line. But it definitely didn't need to be a Super Edition.
- Crowfeather's Trial - We really didn't need like 40 chapters on Crowfeather arguing with Onestar and trying to find where Nightcloud disappeared to. Again, I do like this SE, but it would've done well as a novella instead.
- Squirrelflight's Hope - Again, we really didn't need 40 or so chapters of Squirrelflight and Bramblestar arguing. We really didn't. This could've fit into a novella and given us all of the important info - meeting the Sisters, Leafpool's death, etc.
Novellas that should be Super Editions:- Cloudstar's Journey - It would've been cool to get more information about Cloudstar and everything leading up to the journey, the journey itself, and how they settled into the gorge.
- Mapleshade's Vengeance - I think this novella skips around too much, and it would've been much more cohesive if it would've been able to show Mapleshade's relationship with Appledusk, getting found out, and really go into her thoughts when she killed Ravenwing, Frecklewish, and Appledusk. I think it would've been much better to get the whole story, rather than just the most important bits and pieces.
- Pinestar's Choice - At the beginning of the novella, Pinepaw is scared of kittypets. By the end, he wants to become one, and there really isn't enough time within the span of a novella to explain how he truly moved from one to the other. They tried, but I think this book would've done better as a Super Edition. They could've showed more how Pinestar lost his taste for battle, stuff like that. Shown rather than told these things.
- Thunderstar's Echo - I think it fits well into a novella, I really do. And I think they could've made it better as a Super Edition. Maybe I'm just biased because I really like DotC, but I would've loved to see more development in Thunderstar's relationship with Violet Dawn, show him truly grieving Lightning Tail's death, stuff like that.
Novellas and Super Editions that I find Unnecessary:- Mistystar's Omen - From what I remember, this book basically takes the old argument of "Can Mothwing be a good medicine cat while not believing in StarClan?" and makes a whole novella out of it. I get it, Mistystar would've been thrown off by her medicine cat not believing in StarClan, but it just doesn't feel necessary to make a novella about it.
- Dovewing's Silence - It really doesn't give us a whole lot of new information. I get what it was intended to do, but it just doesn't feel like it fits or makes sense.
- Goosefeather's Curse - I like having some background on Goosefeather and all, learning why he became "crazy". But it honestly wasn't that necessary. It doesn't really change a whole lot about any of the other books.
- Spottedleaf's Heart - This is the least necessary novella that exists. All it did was stir up controversy among the fandom. It was honestly just a gross book that should never have existed.
- Pebbleshine's Kits - This one really didn't feel necessary at all. I get it, we all wanted to know what happened to Pebbleshine after she got on that monster, but this book felt weak at best. It basically felt like the Erins trying to do something to confirm that Pebbleshine was indeed the mother of Twigbranch and Violetshine - because surely I'm not the only one who was questioning whether we could be 100% certain of that before this novella.
- Spotfur's Rebellion - This book gives us zero new information. The majority of this novella is just the same events from TBC from Spotfur's POV rather than Bristlefrost's. There's nothing new or important in this novella and I was so disappointed, because they could've done a lot with this one.
- SkyClan's Destiny - I think this SE was necessary in the fact that it gave us a look into SkyClan's life after Firestar left. But there's a lot in this one that's just not interesting, and they could've done a lot better with this one.
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Cloudstorm
Don’t let it kill you. Even when it hurts like hell.
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Post by Cloudstorm on Oct 31, 2021 19:54:08 GMT -5
suppose I’m the only one that actually Liked Bramblestars Storm , and wasn’t Bothered by his Characterization in Squirrelflights Hope . Since it’s very understandable considering the events of AVoS , and Squirrelflights Flippant, melodramatic, reckless, uncooperative, disobedient , disloyal behavior throughout the whole book , and obvious Narrative favoritism towards Squirrelflight from Kate Cary certainly isn’t doing her any favors . And Squirrelflight just standing back , hesitating to assist Bramblestar while I forgot which sister , cause I could careless to remember there names , is maliciously attempting to rip his throat out because of her internal Conflict over her Loyalties is pretty mind-boggling , and was very difficult to read . I like Bramblestar's Storm as well but only for the character moments as the overarching plot of the storm wasn't handled all that well in my opinion and felt more like a bunch of short stories put together than a cohesive whole. I also agree that Squirrelflight acted very disobedient on occasion in Squirrelflight's Hope for someone that has been a deputy so long. That being said however, Bramblestar not letting Leafpool treat a deadly injured Sunrise was one of his worst moments in it as well. Yes, she got the wound due to trespassing and attacking a ShadowClan patrol and yes, Bramblestar has a right to be angry at Squirrelflight for letting rogues into their camp who thus now know the exact location of it but this still was a cruel thing to do even for him. That is simply my opinion on this entire matter. Edit: What author favoritism? Kate Cary dislikes both Bramblestar and Squirrelflight as characters. yeah admittedly I can agree the overarching plot as a whole is one the weaker ones coming to SE’s, and isn’t the most cohesive as a whole , that’s specifically why I enjoyed it , is because of the characters moments and lack of a complex plot , because let’s be honest , the Erins have a track record of turning complicated storylines into jumbled messes , we’re they have very little idea exactly what they are trying to do with it . And I personally don’t see Bramblestar refusing to treat Sunrise as cruelty , since the sisters have already proven to be unwelcoming/unfriendly to the clan cats , holding Squirrelflight and Leafstar as prisoners . And with the recent history with Darktail , obviously there gonna be much more wary of strangers , and with starclan telling them they need to be United , and the sisters already displaying hostility , so there’s no evidence to prove there peaceable , are could potentially be allies at that time . And just because Squirrelflight feels the need to drag an Enemy into the camp, and basically put him on the spot , and pressure him into lending aid and Comfort to the enemy cause she thinks it’s right , doesn’t mean bramblestar is obligated to do so . And he wasn’t the only that was discontent and uncomfortable about the prospect of helping the sisters , many other members of thunderclan disapproved as well . Also the sisters just openly expressing there contempt about them having a “Tom” in charge certainly isn’t going to make them more agreeable . It’s comparable to a wanted criminal showing up on your doorstep , bleeding out requesting help , would help them knowing they’d bleed to death if you didn’t ?would it be wrong to let them die ? They’ve mercilessly have done unspeakable crimes to others . In the end I don’t exactly view it as either right or wrong whichever decision he makes , if he decides to help them , then great . But if he refuses , he has every right too , he doesn’t owe a Single thing to the sisters. And far as author favoritism , it’s pretty clear in my opinion, that the narrative is Written in such a manner to evoke the reader to sympathize more strongly with Squirrelflight , and justify her decisions as being right , and bramblestar is being unreasonable. While it’s possible the editors are partly to play on that regard . I also know that Kate Cary is incredibly biased when it comes to these 2 , and she always Disliked Bramblestar . And I’m not just referring to modern Day bramblestar , she’s Been negative about him since he was introduced as bramblepaw/claw back in 2004/2005 .
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Post by twigfrost on Oct 31, 2021 19:57:34 GMT -5
never really liked graystripes vow, felt a bit boring besides the bits with warriorclan
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Aroace
#ffa100
Name Colour
𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑
Villain Enjoyer
Taking a break from the forums because my cat died. Will probably be back mid to late October.
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Post by 𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑 on Nov 1, 2021 6:04:11 GMT -5
I like Bramblestar's Storm as well but only for the character moments as the overarching plot of the storm wasn't handled all that well in my opinion and felt more like a bunch of short stories put together than a cohesive whole. I also agree that Squirrelflight acted very disobedient on occasion in Squirrelflight's Hope for someone that has been a deputy so long. That being said however, Bramblestar not letting Leafpool treat a deadly injured Sunrise was one of his worst moments in it as well. Yes, she got the wound due to trespassing and attacking a ShadowClan patrol and yes, Bramblestar has a right to be angry at Squirrelflight for letting rogues into their camp who thus now know the exact location of it but this still was a cruel thing to do even for him. That is simply my opinion on this entire matter. Edit: What author favoritism? Kate Cary dislikes both Bramblestar and Squirrelflight as characters. yeah admittedly I can agree the overarching plot as a whole is one the weaker ones coming to SE’s, and isn’t the most cohesive as a whole , that’s specifically why I enjoyed it , is because of the characters moments and lack of a complex plot , because let’s be honest , the Erins have a track record of turning complicated storylines into jumbled messes , we’re they have very little idea exactly what they are trying to do with it . And I personally don’t see Bramblestar refusing to treat Sunrise as cruelty , since the sisters have already proven to be unwelcoming/unfriendly to the clan cats , holding Squirrelflight and Leafstar as prisoners . And with the recent history with Darktail , obviously there gonna be much more wary of strangers , and with starclan telling them they need to be United , and the sisters already displaying hostility , so there’s no evidence to prove there peaceable , are could potentially be allies at that time . And just because Squirrelflight feels the need to drag an Enemy into the camp, and basically put him on the spot , and pressure him into lending aid and Comfort to the enemy cause she thinks it’s right , doesn’t mean bramblestar is obligated to do so . And he wasn’t the only that was discontent and uncomfortable about the prospect of helping the sisters , many other members of thunderclan disapproved as well . Also the sisters just openly expressing there contempt about them having a “Tom” in charge certainly isn’t going to make them more agreeable . It’s comparable to a wanted criminal showing up on your doorstep , bleeding out requesting help , would help them knowing they’d bleed to death if you didn’t ?would it be wrong to let them die ? They’ve mercilessly have done unspeakable crimes to others . In the end I don’t exactly view it as either right or wrong whichever decision he makes , if he decides to help them , then great . But if he refuses , he has every right too , he doesn’t owe a Single thing to the sisters. And far as author favoritism , it’s pretty clear in my opinion, that the narrative is Written in such a manner to evoke the reader to sympathize more strongly with Squirrelflight , and justify her decisions as being right , and bramblestar is being unreasonable. While it’s possible the editors are partly to play on that regard . I also know that Kate Cary is incredibly biased when it comes to these 2 , and she always Disliked Bramblestar . And I’m not just referring to modern Day bramblestar , she’s Been negative about him since he was introduced as bramblepaw/claw back in 2004/2005 . I still don't think that the Sunrise situation should be up to wether or not Bramblestar wanted to help a deadly injured cat or not like I explained in my comment above your reply. It's about doing what is right and basic decency/morality to help someone on the brink of death. Bramblestar had a right to distrust The Sisters and be angry at Squirrelflight to have exposed their camp location to hostile rogues who previously kept his mate hostage but still should have helped her and Sunrise by at least letting Leafpool treat her. That is my stance on the matter and you are of course free to disagree with me. I still despise The Sisters as a concept and their sexist opinions on toms though. I also kind of agree with you that the narrative usually portrays Squirrelflight to be in the right way more son than Bramblestar most notably with the Hawkfrost situation, taking care of her sisters kits and finally even insisting on SkyClan's move to new territory/not wanting to attack The Sisters in her SE. However, Squirrelflight is still to this day hated by a lot of fans in the community due to her pretending to be the Three's mother (Holly, Lion, Jay) and keeping the truth from her mate. A lot of the time, people ask "How could Squirrelflight lie to him like that?" or "How dare she keep this from Brambleclaw?". Even in universe most cats seem to have forgiven Leafpool for her breaking of the code but Squirrelflight still to this day gets reminded of her "crime" despite Leafpool being the real mother not her. I personally continue to adore both Bramblestar and Squirrelflight as individual characters (not them being a couple). Kate Cary dislikes both Bramblestar and Squirrelflight. She is still angry at Bramblestar for "stealing" the deputy and leader position from Graystripe (who is her favorite character) and Squirrelflight is one of Kate's least favorite characters. When asked who she wants as deputy, Kate replied anyone but Squirrelflight: archive.ph/2020.01.03-221915/https://erinhunter.katecary.co.uk/ask-kate-questions/comment-page-68/%23commentsweb.archive.org/web/20191208072100/https://blogclan.katecary.co.uk/2017/02/17/tigerhearts-shadow-spoiler-page/comment-page-35/
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Cloudstorm
Don’t let it kill you. Even when it hurts like hell.
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Post by Cloudstorm on Nov 1, 2021 22:24:27 GMT -5
yeah admittedly I can agree the overarching plot as a whole is one the weaker ones coming to SE’s, and isn’t the most cohesive as a whole , that’s specifically why I enjoyed it , is because of the characters moments and lack of a complex plot , because let’s be honest , the Erins have a track record of turning complicated storylines into jumbled messes , we’re they have very little idea exactly what they are trying to do with it . And I personally don’t see Bramblestar refusing to treat Sunrise as cruelty , since the sisters have already proven to be unwelcoming/unfriendly to the clan cats , holding Squirrelflight and Leafstar as prisoners . And with the recent history with Darktail , obviously there gonna be much more wary of strangers , and with starclan telling them they need to be United , and the sisters already displaying hostility , so there’s no evidence to prove there peaceable , are could potentially be allies at that time . And just because Squirrelflight feels the need to drag an Enemy into the camp, and basically put him on the spot , and pressure him into lending aid and Comfort to the enemy cause she thinks it’s right , doesn’t mean bramblestar is obligated to do so . And he wasn’t the only that was discontent and uncomfortable about the prospect of helping the sisters , many other members of thunderclan disapproved as well . Also the sisters just openly expressing there contempt about them having a “Tom” in charge certainly isn’t going to make them more agreeable . It’s comparable to a wanted criminal showing up on your doorstep , bleeding out requesting help , would help them knowing they’d bleed to death if you didn’t ?would it be wrong to let them die ? They’ve mercilessly have done unspeakable crimes to others . In the end I don’t exactly view it as either right or wrong whichever decision he makes , if he decides to help them , then great . But if he refuses , he has every right too , he doesn’t owe a Single thing to the sisters. And far as author favoritism , it’s pretty clear in my opinion, that the narrative is Written in such a manner to evoke the reader to sympathize more strongly with Squirrelflight , and justify her decisions as being right , and bramblestar is being unreasonable. While it’s possible the editors are partly to play on that regard . I also know that Kate Cary is incredibly biased when it comes to these 2 , and she always Disliked Bramblestar . And I’m not just referring to modern Day bramblestar , she’s Been negative about him since he was introduced as bramblepaw/claw back in 2004/2005 . I still don't think that the Sunrise situation should be up to wether or not Bramblestar wanted to help a deadly injured cat or not like I explained in my comment above your reply. It's about doing what is right and basic decency/morality to help someone on the brink of death. Bramblestar had a right to distrust The Sisters and be angry at Squirrelflight to have exposed their camp location to hostile rogues who previously kept his mate hostage but still should have helped her and Sunrise by at least letting Leafpool treat her. That is my stance on the matter and you are of course free to disagree with me. I still despise The Sisters as a concept and their sexist opinions on toms though. I also kind of agree with you that the narrative usually portrays Squirrelflight to be in the right way more son than Bramblestar most notably with the Hawkfrost situation, taking care of her sisters kits and finally even insisting on SkyClan's move to new territory/not wanting to attack The Sisters in her SE. However, Squirrelflight is still to this day hated by a lot of fans in the community due to her pretending to be the Three's mother (Holly, Lion, Jay) and keeping the truth from her mate. A lot of the time, people ask "How could Squirrelflight lie to him like that?" or "How dare she keep this from Brambleclaw?". Even in universe most cats seem to have forgiven Leafpool for her breaking of the code but Squirrelflight still to this day gets reminded of her "crime" despite Leafpool being the real mother not her. I personally continue to adore both Bramblestar and Squirrelflight as individual characters (not them being a couple). Kate Cary dislikes both Bramblestar and Squirrelflight. She is still angry at Bramblestar for "stealing" the deputy and leader position from Graystripe (who is her favorite character) and Squirrelflight is one of Kate's least favorite characters. When asked who she wants as deputy, Kate replied anyone but Squirrelflight: archive.ph/2020.01.03-221915/https://erinhunter.katecary.co.uk/ask-kate-questions/comment-page-68/%23commentsweb.archive.org/web/20191208072100/https://blogclan.katecary.co.uk/2017/02/17/tigerhearts-shadow-spoiler-page/comment-page-35/ while I definitely would of preferred bramblestar helping sunrise , for obvious reasons , I personally don’t fault him for refusing too, but that’s just my opinion , and Decency/morality is such a generalized/ambiguous term that’s relative to everyone’s own paradigm and way of thinking , and interpretation of what’s right or wrong , and please feel free to post your opinion or object, I enjoy our conversations . In the warriors universe , while it does say no warrior is to neglect a kit or Queen in need , there also supposed to defend/preserve there way of life , and considering what happened with Darktail when they let in outsiders , and sisters obvious opposition of there livelihood sort of speak , there’s really no moral obligation imo to lend aid to what are essentially enemies at that point , as they shown on several accounts they have no qualms to become hostile (injuring leafstar , deafening strikestone , which are what I wouldn’t necessarily call allies with thunderclan (at least not shadowclan anyway) , just more of a diplomatic relationship , so it’s a strike against them to in a way . While I certainly wouldn’t of had any problems if Bramblestar decided to offer a gesture of good will , I personally don’t see it as a moral indecency is he decides not too either , though I do fully respect your opinion and understand why it disturbing to some people . And I Fully agree with you on Squirrelflight , while I definitely disapprove of her lying to Brambleclaw and her and leafpool deceiving lion, jay, Holly , I certainly don’t hate her for it , and I also very obnoxious that we are constantly reminded every damn book about her crimes, like “ yes , we all know already hat she pretended to be there parents , move on for Pete’s sakes “. Though i do wish she would reflect and learn from her past mistakes much more often , instead of continuing to make Rash decisions . And Kate Cary has very openly expressed on multiple occasions that Bramblestar and Firestar are her least favorite characters to write about (unless of course she’s changed her opinions in recent years that I’m unaware of ) so while she may not like Squirrelflight, it’s my understanding that her dislike for Brambleclaw runs much deeper , and she’s more inclined to put less effort/care into depicting his character genuinely, and even if she doesn’t butcher his character directly , the TLC is pretty obviously missing imo , of course the editors may be contributing factors as well , we’ll probably never know the full story .
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Post by cable on Nov 1, 2021 23:33:58 GMT -5
kinda wish blackfoots reckoning was a super edition. there were a lot of time skips in yellowfangs secret during brokenstars reign that couldve gotten more detail, along with the time blackstar spent as a rogue. theres more unseen content there than with leopardstar.
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Aroace
#ffa100
Name Colour
𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑
Villain Enjoyer
Taking a break from the forums because my cat died. Will probably be back mid to late October.
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Post by 𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑 on Nov 2, 2021 12:50:07 GMT -5
I still don't think that the Sunrise situation should be up to wether or not Bramblestar wanted to help a deadly injured cat or not like I explained in my comment above your reply. It's about doing what is right and basic decency/morality to help someone on the brink of death. Bramblestar had a right to distrust The Sisters and be angry at Squirrelflight to have exposed their camp location to hostile rogues who previously kept his mate hostage but still should have helped her and Sunrise by at least letting Leafpool treat her. That is my stance on the matter and you are of course free to disagree with me. I still despise The Sisters as a concept and their sexist opinions on toms though. I also kind of agree with you that the narrative usually portrays Squirrelflight to be in the right way more son than Bramblestar most notably with the Hawkfrost situation, taking care of her sisters kits and finally even insisting on SkyClan's move to new territory/not wanting to attack The Sisters in her SE. However, Squirrelflight is still to this day hated by a lot of fans in the community due to her pretending to be the Three's mother (Holly, Lion, Jay) and keeping the truth from her mate. A lot of the time, people ask "How could Squirrelflight lie to him like that?" or "How dare she keep this from Brambleclaw?". Even in universe most cats seem to have forgiven Leafpool for her breaking of the code but Squirrelflight still to this day gets reminded of her "crime" despite Leafpool being the real mother not her. I personally continue to adore both Bramblestar and Squirrelflight as individual characters (not them being a couple). Kate Cary dislikes both Bramblestar and Squirrelflight. She is still angry at Bramblestar for "stealing" the deputy and leader position from Graystripe (who is her favorite character) and Squirrelflight is one of Kate's least favorite characters. When asked who she wants as deputy, Kate replied anyone but Squirrelflight: archive.ph/2020.01.03-221915/https://erinhunter.katecary.co.uk/ask-kate-questions/comment-page-68/%23commentsweb.archive.org/web/20191208072100/https://blogclan.katecary.co.uk/2017/02/17/tigerhearts-shadow-spoiler-page/comment-page-35/ while I definitely would of preferred bramblestar helping sunrise , for obvious reasons , I personally don’t fault him for refusing too, but that’s just my opinion , and Decency/morality is such a generalized/ambiguous term that’s relative to everyone’s own paradigm and way of thinking , and interpretation of what’s right or wrong , and please feel free to post your opinion or object, I enjoy our conversations . In the warriors universe , while it does say no warrior is to neglect a kit or Queen in need , there also supposed to defend/preserve there way of life , and considering what happened with Darktail when they let in outsiders , and sisters obvious opposition of there livelihood sort of speak , there’s really no moral obligation imo to lend aid to what are essentially enemies at that point , as they shown on several accounts they have no qualms to become hostile (injuring leafstar , deafening strikestone , which are what I wouldn’t necessarily call allies with thunderclan (at least not shadowclan anyway) , just more of a diplomatic relationship , so it’s a strike against them to in a way . While I certainly wouldn’t of had any problems if Bramblestar decided to offer a gesture of good will , I personally don’t see it as a moral indecency is he decides not too either , though I do fully respect your opinion and understand why it disturbing to some people . And I Fully agree with you on Squirrelflight , while I definitely disapprove of her lying to Brambleclaw and her and leafpool deceiving lion, jay, Holly , I certainly don’t hate her for it , and I also very obnoxious that we are constantly reminded every damn book about her crimes, like “ yes , we all know already hat she pretended to be there parents , move on for Pete’s sakes “. Though i do wish she would reflect and learn from her past mistakes much more often , instead of continuing to make Rash decisions . And Kate Cary has very openly expressed on multiple occasions that Bramblestar and Firestar are her least favorite characters to write about (unless of course she’s changed her opinions in recent years that I’m unaware of ) so while she may not like Squirrelflight, it’s my understanding that her dislike for Brambleclaw runs much deeper , and she’s more inclined to put less effort/care into depicting his character genuinely, and even if she doesn’t butcher his character directly , the TLC is pretty obviously missing imo , of course the editors may be contributing factors as well , we’ll probably never know the full story . Then I guess to just really would have preferred it if Bramblestsr had let Leafpool treat Sunrise's wounds instead of being so afraid of what Tigerstar II might think about him potentially helping a cat that had previously attacked a ShadowClan patrol. Bramblestar was so weirdly scared of his nephew in Squirrelflight's SE even though he always seemed to be confident in regards to his own decisions previously. This is yet another reason why I depise Tigerheart/star as he gets made out to be so "intimidating" and "powerful" despite his own Super Edition showing him to be indecisive and arrogant before. When it comes to the narrative I think if anything Leafpool is the cat who is favored over both Bramblestar and Squirrelflight. She no longer received any public shaming in AVoS or her sister's book due to having regained their respect and trust because of working hard as a reinstated medicine cat alongside her son Jayfeather and nephew Alderheart. I just checked Kate Cary's Trivia section on the Warriors Wiki and her least favorite characters are listed to be Crowfeather, Squirrelflight, Hollyleaf and Sleekwhisker. Although this could have changed since then as she stated these opinions some time ago but as you said we can never be too sure unless someone asks her about Squirrelflight or any other character on BlogClan.
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Cloudstorm
Don’t let it kill you. Even when it hurts like hell.
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Post by Cloudstorm on Nov 2, 2021 18:06:59 GMT -5
while I definitely would of preferred bramblestar helping sunrise , for obvious reasons , I personally don’t fault him for refusing too, but that’s just my opinion , and Decency/morality is such a generalized/ambiguous term that’s relative to everyone’s own paradigm and way of thinking , and interpretation of what’s right or wrong , and please feel free to post your opinion or object, I enjoy our conversations . In the warriors universe , while it does say no warrior is to neglect a kit or Queen in need , there also supposed to defend/preserve there way of life , and considering what happened with Darktail when they let in outsiders , and sisters obvious opposition of there livelihood sort of speak , there’s really no moral obligation imo to lend aid to what are essentially enemies at that point , as they shown on several accounts they have no qualms to become hostile (injuring leafstar , deafening strikestone , which are what I wouldn’t necessarily call allies with thunderclan (at least not shadowclan anyway) , just more of a diplomatic relationship , so it’s a strike against them to in a way . While I certainly wouldn’t of had any problems if Bramblestar decided to offer a gesture of good will , I personally don’t see it as a moral indecency is he decides not too either , though I do fully respect your opinion and understand why it disturbing to some people . And I Fully agree with you on Squirrelflight , while I definitely disapprove of her lying to Brambleclaw and her and leafpool deceiving lion, jay, Holly , I certainly don’t hate her for it , and I also very obnoxious that we are constantly reminded every damn book about her crimes, like “ yes , we all know already hat she pretended to be there parents , move on for Pete’s sakes “. Though i do wish she would reflect and learn from her past mistakes much more often , instead of continuing to make Rash decisions . And Kate Cary has very openly expressed on multiple occasions that Bramblestar and Firestar are her least favorite characters to write about (unless of course she’s changed her opinions in recent years that I’m unaware of ) so while she may not like Squirrelflight, it’s my understanding that her dislike for Brambleclaw runs much deeper , and she’s more inclined to put less effort/care into depicting his character genuinely, and even if she doesn’t butcher his character directly , the TLC is pretty obviously missing imo , of course the editors may be contributing factors as well , we’ll probably never know the full story . Then I guess to just really would have preferred it if Bramblestsr had let Leafpool treat Sunrise's wounds instead of being so afraid of what Tigerstar II might think about him potentially helping a cat that had previously attacked a ShadowClan patrol. Bramblestar was so weirdly scared of his nephew in Squirrelflight's SE even though he always seemed to be confident in regards to his own decisions previously. This is yet another reason why I depise Tigerheart/star as he gets made out to be so "intimidating" and "powerful" despite his own Super Edition showing him to be indecisive and arrogant before. When it comes to the narrative I think if anything Leafpool is the cat who is favored over both Bramblestar and Squirrelflight. She no longer received any public shaming in AVoS or her sister's book due to having regained their respect and trust because of working hard as a reinstated medicine cat alongside her son Jayfeather and nephew Alderheart. I just checked Kate Cary's Trivia section on the Warriors Wiki and her least favorite characters are listed to be Crowfeather, Squirrelflight, Hollyleaf and Sleekwhisker. Although this could have changed since then as she stated these opinions some time ago but as you said we can never be too sure unless someone asks her about Squirrelflight or any other character on BlogClan. yeah I don’t understand the reasoning behind Tigerheart being depicted as “intimidating and powerful ‘ or heck why he was brought back to life in the first place , and I agree leafpool being reinstated as a medicine definitely contributed to her regaining her respect much more easily and becoming trusted again , her hard work and staying loyal, and keeping on the straight and narrow might also be part of it , since she hasn’t made as many impulsive decisions as Squirrelflight since then . And I seriously wish that’d bramblestar/squirrelflight/lionblaze and Jayfeather would have a family meeting and completely resolve all ill-thoughts/misgivings/sense of betrayal they still may feel for Squirrelflight by talking it out , so the matter can finally be Closed , and lion and jay could stop holding it over her head, and writers can stop continuing to milk it for drama purposes . And while I’m definitely out of the loop in some regards of what opinions Kate Cary has on many of these characters . I can say that she vocally expressed her dissatisfaction pretty frequently about writing about Brambleclaw , and firestar from 2003-2006 when the first 2 arc were releasing , during Q&A , book/author reviews conducted by literary groups and literary newsletters and what have you . It’s kinda ironic she used to bellyache about writing about Fireheart/star cause he was such a worrier and frequently was prone to overthink his decisions , when Dovewing , weather you like her or not , admittedly has many of the same qualities, and yet I’ve heard her call Dovewing an Angel on several occasions , so makes me wonder her reasoning behind what makes her like or dislike a character , since it seems kinda backwards at times . Of course it may have to do with her being such a sucker for forbidden romances .
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Aroace
#ffa100
Name Colour
𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑
Villain Enjoyer
Taking a break from the forums because my cat died. Will probably be back mid to late October.
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Post by 𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑 on Nov 3, 2021 5:19:27 GMT -5
Then I guess to just really would have preferred it if Bramblestsr had let Leafpool treat Sunrise's wounds instead of being so afraid of what Tigerstar II might think about him potentially helping a cat that had previously attacked a ShadowClan patrol. Bramblestar was so weirdly scared of his nephew in Squirrelflight's SE even though he always seemed to be confident in regards to his own decisions previously. This is yet another reason why I depise Tigerheart/star as he gets made out to be so "intimidating" and "powerful" despite his own Super Edition showing him to be indecisive and arrogant before. When it comes to the narrative I think if anything Leafpool is the cat who is favored over both Bramblestar and Squirrelflight. She no longer received any public shaming in AVoS or her sister's book due to having regained their respect and trust because of working hard as a reinstated medicine cat alongside her son Jayfeather and nephew Alderheart. I just checked Kate Cary's Trivia section on the Warriors Wiki and her least favorite characters are listed to be Crowfeather, Squirrelflight, Hollyleaf and Sleekwhisker. Although this could have changed since then as she stated these opinions some time ago but as you said we can never be too sure unless someone asks her about Squirrelflight or any other character on BlogClan. yeah I don’t understand the reasoning behind Tigerheart being depicted as “intimidating and powerful ‘ or heck why he was brought back to life in the first place , and I agree leafpool being reinstated as a medicine definitely contributed to her regaining her respect much more easily and becoming trusted again , her hard work and staying loyal, and keeping on the straight and narrow might also be part of it , since she hasn’t made as many impulsive decisions as Squirrelflight since then . And I seriously wish that’d bramblestar/squirrelflight/lionblaze and Jayfeather would have a family meeting and completely resolve all ill-thoughts/misgivings/sense of betrayal they still may feel for Squirrelflight by talking it out , so the matter can finally be Closed , and lion and jay could stop holding it over her head, and writers can stop continuing to milk it for drama purposes . And while I’m definitely out of the loop in some regards of what opinions Kate Cary has on many of these characters . I can say that she vocally expressed her dissatisfaction pretty frequently about writing about Brambleclaw , and firestar from 2003-2006 when the first 2 arc were releasing , during Q&A , book/author reviews conducted by literary groups and literary newsletters and what have you . It’s kinda ironic she used to bellyache about writing about Fireheart/star cause he was such a worrier and frequently was prone to overthink his decisions , when Dovewing , weather you like her or not , admittedly has many of the same qualities, and yet I’ve heard her call Dovewing an Angel on several occasions , so makes me wonder her reasoning behind what makes her like or dislike a character , since it seems kinda backwards at times . Of course it may have to do with her being such a sucker for forbidden romances . Both Brambleclaw and Lionblaze have forgiven Leafpool and Squirrelflight. So has Hollyleaf if her death scene and meeting the two sisters in StarClan after the rockslide is anything to go by. Jayfeather is the only one to apparently still hold some resentment (but not a grudge) in regards to the situation. On the subject of Kate Cary, she has also said to frequetly change her opinions on these cats so perhaps now that neither Firestar nor Bramblestar are no longer in the spotlight as much and have also matured as characters she might think differently about them. Firestar had a bit of a change in his personality after his PoV in TPB and FQ was done. By the way, at one point it was revealed on her blog that Kate prefers Ivypool over Dovewing due to preferring the "slightly sourer sister". This was back in 2017 but still way after OotS ended so not entirely based on their characterization from before.
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