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Post by Aqua on Oct 27, 2021 13:22:17 GMT -5
Trying to make some of these options as fair as possible.
A lot of people feel mixed about the Ravenwing and Mapleshade situation. Ravenwing found out the truth about the kits, with StarClan's omen proving to him that they're half-clan. He found out that Mapleshade was lying to her clan about them the entire time, and felt he had to tell Oakstar and his clan the truth. For his duty as a medicine cat, do you think this action was fair, or should Ravenwing have handled things differently? Do you think it was fair or Mapleshade to beg him to keep quiet even though she was the one who broke the code and lied to them?
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Post by Midnightcacoon loves Sunbeam on Oct 27, 2021 13:34:35 GMT -5
Defiantly should've kept quiet, or he should have at least forbidden Oakstar from banishing the kit. Though he was very young, so I don't think I can entirely blame him for that.
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𝔖𝔬𝔯𝔯𝔢𝔩
uh.. I really like sorreltail
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Post by 𝔖𝔬𝔯𝔯𝔢𝔩 on Oct 27, 2021 13:36:28 GMT -5
I think it was fair, and I don’t think he should be blamed for the exile of her kits, because he simply told his leader what Starclan had told him, he never specifically requested he exile the kits.
Though, I can see why people think differently
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Post by streamflower on Oct 27, 2021 15:03:14 GMT -5
Should have kept quiet. He knew the kits would suffer if he spoke, which he stated while talking to Mapleshade. If you know that your speaking out will directly cause harm and suffering to children, and you still choose to speak out, you're a bad person.
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Post by 🔥Firestar🔥 on Oct 27, 2021 15:49:42 GMT -5
It was never Ravenwing's responsability to cover up for her mistakes, and she had it coming imo. She broke the code, had kits with a cat from another clan, and used her clanmate's grief to her adventage. He had all right to snitch on her. Even more, when a STARCLAN OMEN told him that the kits were going to be a danger to ThunderClan. He did nothing wrong. It's just Oakstar's fault that they were exiled, he was the one who choose to do that. Could he have stopped it? Maybe. But at the same time, the kits were a "future danger" in his eyes, so keeping them would only endanger his Clanmates. As far as he knew, he was only protecting them.
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Post by streamflower on Oct 27, 2021 17:01:51 GMT -5
I'm looking at the text right now and there was nothing in the omen saying that the kits would be a danger to the clan? All Ravenwing said is that they didn't belong/they were half-clan. Oakstar said the danger bit, but Ravenwing just said he interpreted it as them not belonging, and then saying that the kits would suffer if he spoke up. A huge facet of the warrior code is "No warrior may neglect a kit in pain or in danger, even if that kit is from a different Clan," which was created by a medicine cat who allowed kits in danger to die. Ravenwing ignores this, and big surprise, three kits die. His duty to protect his clanmates (and kits!) supersedes his duty to snitch, but he snitches anyway.
He's a medicine cat who's supposed to care about all cats, regardless of clan affiliation, yet even when he realized that literal children would suffer he chose to speak up anyway. He then refused to protect the kits (granted, this is a fault of all of Thunderclan at this point). I genuinely cannot think of a single medicine cat (except MAYBE Hawkheart, another controversial medicine cat) who would receive an omen, come to the conclusion that children would suffer from them speaking out, and then proceed to speak out.
Medicine cats have lied and made decisions for the good of their clan before (EG, Redscar choosing Flowerstem as leader and planting the flower stem, saying it was an omen from Starclan; Cloudberry lies to Thunderclan, saying Starclan told her to take on Goosepaw as an apprentice when he was 4 moons old), so why couldn't he? Ravenwing could have done the right thing to protect the kits, but he chose not to ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Asexual
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Ṣanɗypaw™
The Shiny User
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Post by Ṣanɗypaw™ on Oct 27, 2021 17:11:50 GMT -5
I don't think that Ravenwing should have spoken up at all to protect the kits, but even then, he should have at least defended Mapleshade to keep the kits out of danger in the wild.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Oct 27, 2021 17:35:51 GMT -5
Imo, I had no problem with him reporting the truth, but his "truth" was based on an omen, which probably could have been interpreted wrong, and elders that bully kits. When he confronted Mapleshade, it was very clear it was an accusation and also very clear he knew the kits would suffer, so honestly that's on him.
However, my bigger gripe is with the fact that he showed no leniency to a mother and her children, and is just as bad as the rest of his clan for standing by idly while their clan persecuted them. Mapleshade was literally attacked in front of her kits, slashed in the face, while her kits were called "things". When they were being exiled Ravenwing should have spoken up, he could have suggested an escort to make sure Mapleshade and the kits left the territory for good, but also were safely delivered into RiverClan territory. It's especially cruel that he didn't say anything, even when Mapleshade eyed him during the "trial".
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Post by cable on Oct 27, 2021 17:43:11 GMT -5
i literally dont care what mapleshade did, oakstar exiled kits to die (yes, die. there is no way on earth he deluded himself into thinking mapleshade could keep the kits alive on her own, and he had no way of knowing riverclan would accept them) and ravenwing said nothing in what is one of the most morally bankrupt moves in the entire series. there is nothing that could ever justify that in my mind.
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Post by halogen on Oct 27, 2021 18:06:12 GMT -5
He should have spoken up when Mapleshade was exiled, but as for saying the omen in the first place, I feel like you should try to put yourself into the mindset of a cat who has deep faith in the wisdom of StarClan to the point where he dedicated his life to being a medicine cat. If StarClan goes out of their way to tell you something, even if you are aware that innocents will suffer if it is told, you would naturally think they sent it to you for some greater purpose and that the benefit the omen would give to your Clan is greater than the cost. Anyone who is real-life religious would probably balk at keeping a message they believed to have come from God, a higher power, etc. to themselves, because that would be tantamount to defying the figure they worship and saying they know better than God etc.
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Post by Rainsplash on Oct 27, 2021 18:22:06 GMT -5
Ravenwing didn't have to keep quiet for Mapleshade. He had an omen from StarClan, and he thought he had to tell his omens to his leader. It would've been better if he spoke up, though.
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Post by ✲ριкαƒυєу✲ on Oct 27, 2021 21:29:26 GMT -5
Ravenwing was a biased snake like every cat in ThunderClan was.
He literally is described as having a hard stare when Mapleshade is being exiled, showing he gives absolutely zero squats about the kits safety.
So tbh her desecrating his grave was somewhat satisfying to me. Hate me for that if you want, but I have absolutely no love for a cat that is as snake-like as Ravenwing was
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Post by *Ottersplash* on Oct 27, 2021 23:15:21 GMT -5
He should have kept quiet or spoke up to defend the cats
Like, when I think of cats like Yellowfang or Leafpool or other modern day medicine cats...I can't imagine them sitting by while kits are exiled
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Post by crowspirit on Oct 28, 2021 3:06:26 GMT -5
I think he should have kept quiet. He was so spiteful and mean towards Mapleshade, it was clear to me that he wanted her to be punished and didn't care about the kits one bit. And do we even know that he didn't make the omen up? StarClan never sent any signs to endanger halfclan - kits, why should they suddenly do it?
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Post by lionblazex on Oct 28, 2021 3:12:15 GMT -5
He definently should have kept his mouth shut or spoke up for the kits. Mapleshade broke the code sure but the kits were innocents and didn't deserve to be punished. Oakstar had already shown he was crazy when it came to anything involving Appledusk long before Mapleshade lies came out. He wanted to raise the kits to murder Appledusk and said so casually before. There is noway Ravenwing could think he would have mercy knowing how intense his hatred is.
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Bisexual
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Post by ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁 on Oct 28, 2021 10:48:07 GMT -5
Like others, he should have remained quiet and maybe tried to help or when Oakstar was exiling them, speak up. I honestly hope he went through a harsh trial (since those are canon now) about the death of the kits and other cats, as he's indirectly to blame. I also severely disliked all the cats that caused the death went to StarClan. Oakstar and Ravenwing should have at least been sent to the Dark Forest because they literally broke the code about protecting kits and didn't care.
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Post by batwhisker on Oct 28, 2021 11:45:36 GMT -5
I think considering the culture of the Clans and the mindset of a medicine cat, I can't blame Ravenwing for the act of telling Oakstar about the omen, on its own. He thinks his ancestors want the truth to be known and he would have no way of knowing precisely what Oakstar would do in response to this, though he surely anticipated it wouldn't be good. HOWEVER, he shows himself to be awful & unsympathetic when he seems satisfied about allowing the kits (who should be considered blameless for what their parents did) to be exiled, knowing they & Mapleshade would have little hope of survival alone. He clearly didn't care one whit about what happened to the kits, which flouts the warrior/medicine cat code and also common decency.
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Aroace
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Post by 𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑 on Oct 28, 2021 12:05:48 GMT -5
I think Ravenwing should have kept quiet to protect Patchkit, Larchkit and Petalkit. He is allowed to disapprove of Mapleshade breaking the warrior code and perhaps even to convince Oakstar of exiling her for it (even though this is still a harsher punishment than any other cat involved in a forbiden romance has gotten except for Cloudberry losing her mate Ryewhisker) but the kits deserved way better than to be banished and die. I will never forgive Oakstar for how he treated them because of their half-Clan origins and how their father Appledusk indirectly caused the death of Oakstar's son Birchface.
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Post by madhatter on Oct 29, 2021 11:51:56 GMT -5
He should have until they are apps although he was likely rather young, he didnt deserve to die he talked to mapleshade before he said anything and her reaction wasnt that great, he simply should have just waited a bit more for the best case available Oakstar is to blame for the kits exile, Mapleshade is to blame for the deaths, Darkstar is to blame for the disrespect on the kits, Appledusk was a horrible mate
Ravenwing was one of the few cats who did nothing wrong in mapleshades vengeance
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Post by madhatter on Oct 29, 2021 11:55:25 GMT -5
(by nothing wrong i mean nothing wrong enough to be murdered he should have spoke out he should have though about the omen more then assume it meant mapleshades kits he should have been more responsible but it wasnt enough to deserve to be murdered)
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Post by !! 𝐒𝘛𝙰Ƨ1S !! on Oct 29, 2021 17:07:14 GMT -5
Im neutral about it. Ravenwing was cruel by saying the kits didn't deserve to be there and let them be exiled, especially with him knowing with only their mother's milk they couldn't survive, tho he was young and was probably teached whatever Starclan says should be done. I dont blame him, but it wasn't a good thing to be done.
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Post by !! 𝐒𝘛𝙰Ƨ1S !! on Oct 29, 2021 17:08:52 GMT -5
Im neutral about it. Ravenwing was cruel by saying the kits didn't deserve to be there and let them be exiled, especially with him knowing with only their mother's milk they couldn't survive, tho he was young and was probably teached whatever Starclan says should be done. I dont blame him, but it wasn't a good thing to be done. And by saying he knew, he was a medicine cat and probably did.
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