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Post by Aqua on Oct 27, 2021 13:14:15 GMT -5
Squirrelflight has lied to her clan, was immature as an apprentice, took the Sisters' side over the Clans, made Sparkpelt lie to Bramblestar, and did many other foolish things. Do you think her actions were understandable, or were the crappy and should she have handled things better?
I'm aware she genuinely believed she did the right thing to help these cats, but she had a lot of shit biting her in the ass for it because she didn't think twice about how it would affect her Clanmates. Because of this I feel like she lost a lot of respect in the clans, not just ThunderClan tbh.
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Post by Midnightcacoon loves Sunbeam on Oct 27, 2021 13:30:34 GMT -5
I agree with you I can't speak on anything happing in SH(Never read it), but I think she mostly did everything in hopes that it would be the right thing to do. But I think a major flaw of hers is like you said, not thinking how it might effect others.
Ex: Taking leafpool's kits, and keeping them a secret to keep them safe. (Risked her and thunderclans reputation, aswell as hurting Brambleclaw) Keeping bramblestar's body alive, just incase he is still out there. (Shadowclan wasted herbs, Cats got hurt.)
And I think she can be excused as an apprentice, as she was very young.
She most likely has lost the respect of a lot of her clanmates and the clans themselves, but she'll still always do what she thinks is right despite that. I think that part of her is very cool, because it can resemble her father in a way.
But again, I have NOT read SH so my opinion may change on her.
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Oct 27, 2021 14:16:21 GMT -5
i've always said she may have had the right intentions but she handles things all wrong each and every time. because for her, it's always like this: "lets do things MY way because i'm ALWAYS RIGHT and if you think im not, then screw you! i'll just do it MY WAY ANYWAYS even if u tell me not to!"
i dont care if her intentions are good anymore. im just sick of her arrogance of always insisiting her way is right for everyone. it isnt most of the time...she doesnt care if her methods hurt others
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Post by MadameDelune on Oct 27, 2021 23:35:35 GMT -5
She’s such a brat honestly and doesn’t care about anyone else but her superiority complex and warped sense of morality
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Post by 𝐛𝐥𝟒𝐜𝐤𝐬𝐨𝐥 on Oct 28, 2021 1:03:31 GMT -5
She is a good person, and she really was thinking it was the right thing to do. I understand that it may come off as selfish, but she did it all for SkyClan. Thinking her plan was the best and held the least disadvantages for SkyClan and all the other Clans, is not arrogant or selfish.
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Post by kitters on Oct 28, 2021 1:42:01 GMT -5
I think disobeying orders or taking extreme actions to do what is right is entirely good and understandable imo
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Post by brightheartt on Oct 28, 2021 2:46:32 GMT -5
I think being immature as an apprentice can be excused seeing as apprentices are the warriors equivalent of teenagers, I really don’t think that should be something to count against her later in life. Although while I think some things Squirrelflight could have handled differently (particularly not telling Brambleclaw about the kits) I think her actions are entirely well intended and I think she did the best she could in many situations. The main reason she took in the three and pretended they were her own was because two separate StarClan cats came down and told her to raise them - how is anyone meant to argue against that? She shouldn’t have snuck off to investigate the Sister’s territory, that was wrong of her, but again, entirely good intentions and ultimately her solution is what ended up working. I’m not saying it’s a good thing she went behind Bramblestar’s back but I understand why she did it. I personally think Bramblestar’s body should have been killed in TBC, but we have to remember that Squirrelflight wasn’t the only cat campaigning to keep the body alive, she was one of several voices, it wasn’t like she was the only cat demanding the body be kept - and ultimately it seems that decision saved Bramblestar’s life. But again she shouldn’t have snuck off to ahead of the clans trying to kill it to try and protect it, but it was her last ditch effort at keeping her mate alive, and again the action was understandable even if it wasn’t necessarily the best thing to do.
So overall, I think although some of the things she did she went around in not necessarily the right way, ultimately her intentions have only ever been for good and I don’t think we should fault her too harshly for that - and I just want to put something out there, she is very much like Firestar in this regard. Fireheart went behind Bluestar’s back several times to do what he believed was right (e.g going to talk with Tallstar, giving ThunderClan prey to RiverClan, seeing his sister and bringing his nephew to the clan without asking first).. Firestar essentially abandoned his clan for several weeks for the benefit for cats he had never met(SkyClan). Firestar asked Graystripe and Cinderpelt to lie for him about where he was going when he decided to revive SkyClan (most of the clans thought he had become a kittypet again - that would have severely damaged ThunderClan’s reputation for a while). I know the circumstances aren’t necessarily the same but very similar, but I only ever see criticisms of Squirrelflight for this kind of thing while Firestar never gets any (for the record even though he didn’t think things through at times, again his actions all definitely had good intentions and I don’t fault him for that). I guess it’s because Squirrelflight is still alive while he’s not but it just feels weird to me that she always seems to get criticised so much and no one brings up how similar her father was.
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Oct 28, 2021 3:24:05 GMT -5
brighthearttthis has been said before on a thread a while back, but squirrelflight and firestar arent exactly alike. like i said, squirrelflight always insists she's right and she's pushy about it and never likes hearing other peoples ideas, especially if they invalidate hers. meanwhile, firestar also broke the rules sometimes, but he has never asserted his dominance in an arrogant way like squirrelflight continusouly does. thats the biggest difference between them that no squirrelflight fan wants to admit. squirrelflight is pushy and arrogant to get her way no matter what. whereas firestar is the one who is truly and actually selfless and considerate towards others.
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Cloudstorm
Don’t let it kill you. Even when it hurts like hell.
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Post by Cloudstorm on Oct 28, 2021 9:34:29 GMT -5
I think disobeying orders or taking extreme actions to do what is right is entirely good and understandable imo the problem is when she often goes to extreme lengths , and get others in trouble , because of what she “perceives to be right “ when often at times her Actions are very Questionable and immoral .
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Bisexual
#ffc5c5
Official Queen of Fan Clans
Name Colour
ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁
Official ThunderClan & ElmClan Leader
Easing back in
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Post by ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁 on Oct 28, 2021 10:18:10 GMT -5
brighthearttthis has been said before on a thread a while back, but squirrelflight and firestar arent exactly alike. like i said, squirrelflight always insists she's right and she's pushy about it and never likes hearing other peoples ideas, especially if they invalidate hers. meanwhile, firestar also broke the rules sometimes, but he has never asserted his dominance in an arrogant way like squirrelflight continusouly does. thats the biggest difference between them that no squirrelflight fan wants to admit. squirrelflight is pushy and arrogant to get her way no matter what. whereas firestar is the one who is truly and actually selfless and considerate towards others. Where Squirrelflight is pushy and arrogant is where she is more like Sandstorm. In the first series, Sandstorm throws tantrums in similar ways Squirrelflight does. Her behavior is immature and eventually we aren't given the same lens as when Firestar was the main POV. So Squirrelflight's character isn't exactly so bad when you factor in her parents.
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Post by kitters on Oct 28, 2021 14:57:01 GMT -5
I think disobeying orders or taking extreme actions to do what is right is entirely good and understandable imo the problem is when she often goes to extreme lengths , and get others in trouble , because of what she “perceives to be right “ when often at times her Actions are very Questionable and immoral . IDK when she's done something super immoral ? I mean the worst I can think of is her pressuring Sparkpelt to lie to her dad, that was pretty bad. But aside from that idk I just don't see her actions as immoral, even the sneaking off and lying. I think she had good reasons for it. im probs just super biased tho lol I'm sure sneaking off and lying is pretty immoral to most people
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Post by shnuky (in real life) on Oct 28, 2021 16:07:19 GMT -5
Honestly regardless if it was morally okay for her to do those things, which I think usually is and I wouldn't have any other way, it's one of my favorite traits on her I'm glad she's a creature hope she commits more crimes!!!
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Cloudstorm
Don’t let it kill you. Even when it hurts like hell.
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Post by Cloudstorm on Oct 28, 2021 18:39:32 GMT -5
the problem is when she often goes to extreme lengths , and get others in trouble , because of what she “perceives to be right “ when often at times her Actions are very Questionable and immoral . IDK when she's done something super immoral ? I mean the worst I can think of is her pressuring Sparkpelt to lie to her dad, that was pretty bad. But aside from that idk I just don't see her actions as immoral, even the sneaking off and lying. I think she had good reasons for it. im probs just super biased tho lol I'm sure sneaking off and lying is pretty immoral to most people yeah we can argue until everyone’s blue in the face that she had good intentions/reasons for all the choices she’s made . While I do Understand why she’s made some decisions , and can empathize to some extent. She still needs to Seriously tone down her arrogance and be willing to actively listen/accept other cats judgement much more often . Cause when you make choices that are breaking the Rules/codes that have been established since the warrior cats universe was brought to life , that’s not good , regardless of whatever good intentions she has according to her Moral compass. It’s comparable to someone hacking into your Bank account , stealing all your Savings , but leaving a Note saying “ but it’s with the best of intentions, 10% will benefit charity , have a Wonderful day”. Personally I like Squirrelflight, but she makes Questionable choices , and I’m not gonna let them slide . when you have Multiple cats calling you out for your bad choices , but are too pigheaded to swallow your pride and admit you were wrong , because you had good intentions , that’s not a Quality you want to possess , as it will be very hindering and counterproductive in life .
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