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Post by Aqua on Oct 24, 2021 9:54:11 GMT -5
Is it really lying when a cat takes a mate outside of their clan?
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Oct 24, 2021 10:27:25 GMT -5
If they don't tell their Clan, then yes. A lie of omission is still a lie.
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Post by rabbit on Oct 24, 2021 10:33:33 GMT -5
If they don't tell their Clan, then yes. A lie of omission is still a lie. Honestly, I would argue that who your mate is or was doesn’t have to be the Clan’s business. Say the relationship doesn’t work out and they break it off, there is really no reason for everybody and their mothers to know about it in the first place. Calling them a lair for keeping something to themselves makes them sound malicious when they are not.
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Oct 24, 2021 11:02:22 GMT -5
If they don't tell their Clan, then yes. A lie of omission is still a lie. Honestly, I would argue that who your mate is or was doesn’t have to be the Clan’s business. Say the relationship doesn’t work out and they break it off, there is really no reason for everybody and their mothers to know about it in the first place. Calling them a lair for keeping something to themselves makes them sound malicious when they are not. Who said anything about it being malicious? It's pretty obvious that cats like Silverstream and Dovewing and every other cat who's been in a forbidden relationship never wanted to hurt anyone. That's not the point, nor does it make it any less of a lie. And unless the Clans change the first code in some way, taking a mate from another Clan isn't really something a cat can afford to keep to themselves for very long.
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Post by Chicken on Oct 24, 2021 13:48:09 GMT -5
Yes, it's disloyalty, and I see disloyalty as a form of lying.
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Post by Skypaw13 on Oct 24, 2021 14:48:40 GMT -5
If they lie about it, then yes.
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Post by rabbit on Oct 24, 2021 14:58:18 GMT -5
Who said anything about it being malicious? Well, I did. If someone accused me of being a lair for keeping something to myself, I’d assume I’ve done something wrong in their eyes. Taking a mate outside of the clan can lead to a lot of bad reactions, but I don’t think it is wrong by itself. Most conflict caused by forbidden relationships seems to be how clanmates around them react to it, being unable to understand how one of their kind could fall in love with an outsider.
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Asexual
#07B04C
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Name Colour
Ṣanɗypaw™
The Shiny User
🎵Guess that's just the way it goes, easy come, easy go🎵
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Post by Ṣanɗypaw™ on Oct 24, 2021 17:11:44 GMT -5
It depends. If they tell the truth about having a mate in a different Clan, then no, it isn't lying. But if they lie about having a mate when questioned, it is lying.
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Oct 24, 2021 20:52:25 GMT -5
Who said anything about it being malicious? Well, I did. If someone accused me of being a lair for keeping something to myself, I’d assume I’ve done something wrong in their eyes. Taking a mate outside of the clan can lead to a lot of bad reactions, but I don’t think it is wrong by itself. Most conflict caused by forbidden relationships seems to be how clanmates around them react to it, being unable to understand how one of their kind could fall in love with an outsider. It was a rhetorical question and obviously this isn't an inherently bad thing, but again, keep in mind the kind of society these cats live in. Yes, some things you should just keep to yourselves, but by keeping a secret this big, so long as the code forbids it, they're lying to their Clanmates every day. The entire reason why Graystripe and Silverstream turned out the way they did is precisely to show why this was dangerous. It's an act of disloyalty. Believe me, I would want nothing more than for this code to be amended and it hopefully will be by the next arc, but as it is now, these cats lied. And to say that they lied isn't necessarily a bad thing either, but it's still a fact. They weren't malicious and shouldn't be shamed simply for falling in love, but that's just part of the harsh reality of being a Clan cat during this time.
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Oct 24, 2021 21:07:30 GMT -5
eventually, someone in the clan will notice their weird habits and ask what they're doing. the cat will have to lie to cover it up sooner or later. also, i agree with 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 and Chicken . lying by omission is bad as flat out making something up instead. also, disloyalty in itself is lying. the cat will be lying to themself, saying they're still a good warrior despite their forbidden relationship, but that is a lie. forbidden relationships DO make a cat a bad warrior. not only is it breaking a fundamental code, but it goes against the entire clan system. clan loyalty should be everything to all warriors.
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