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Post by Aqua on Oct 22, 2021 20:39:43 GMT -5
Because of the prophecy, Dovewing had a hard time getting along with Ivypool because of a misunderstanding between her jealousy and Dovepaw's "special treatment". She had Lionblaze, but only as a mentor instead of as a friend, and she was forced to break off her friendships because she had to follow the warrior code.
Jayfeather and Lionblaze only talked to her when they needed her hearing powers, and cats like Blossomfall only wanted to be with her because of them, too.
With Tigerheart, she felt she could be herself around him. He wasn't expecting her to do any duties for him; he just wanted to be himself around her.
Once she took the prophecy seriously, Dovewing and Ivypool finally got along and she broke off her friendship with Tigerheart. She became mates with Bumblestripe, but then broke up because she never had feelings for him and realized she still liked Tigerheart.
Dovewing eventually moved to ShadowClan; she got pregnant with his kittens, gave birth with the guardian cats, and returned to the clans, explaining she was moving to ShadowClan with their kits and father. Ivypool was disappointed in her, with an angry clan who felt betrayed by her disloyalty.
So what do you think? Do you think Dovewing was lonely in ThunderClan, or was she being selfish and should've tried harder to find happiness within her own clan?
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Oct 22, 2021 20:57:55 GMT -5
i voted for She was lonely, but she should've tried harder to find happiness in her clan. it's always been my stance when it comes to dovewing. she really should have tried harder to find happiness in her own clan.
finding happiness without a mate: taking care of her clan by just focusing on her duties, spending more time with queens and kits and elders so she can reconnect with her roots and the future generations, volunteer to help other warriors with their apprentices, ask bramblestar for her own apprentice when the time comes for one, talk with her family more (espeically ivypool) and actually focus on understanding their perspectives on things. edit: forgot to add that she has younger warriors she could befriend and actually make an effort to conenct with...like wtf where r her friends in her own clan? lol
theres literally numerous things she could have done. its literally tigerfart's fault for going into thunderclan in AVOS and guilt tripping her about their relationship. if he just backed off, she could have done all the things i listed above and actually moved on with her life without a mate.
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Post by Aqua on Oct 22, 2021 22:15:19 GMT -5
i voted for She was lonely, but she should've tried harder to find happiness in her clan. it's always been my stance when it comes to dovewing. she really should have tried harder to find happiness in her own clan. finding happiness without a mate: taking care of her clan by just focusing on her duties, spending more time with queens and kits and elders so she can reconnect with her roots and the future generations, volunteer to help other warriors with their apprentices, ask bramblestar for her own apprentice when the time comes for one, talk with her family more (espeically ivypool) and actually focus on understanding their perspectives on things. edit: forgot to add that she has younger warriors she could befriend and actually make an effort to conenct with...like wtf where r her friends in her own clan? lol theres literally numerous things she could have done. its literally tigerfart's fault for going into thunderclan in AVOS and guilt tripping her about their relationship. if he just backed off, she could have done all the things i listed above and actually moved on with her life without a mate. Good post. Dovewing could've easily gotten along with some of the nicer cats like Alderheart and Daisy. She needs someone gentle and understanding. She'd also get along well with Twigbranch too, I feel, especially since she was worried about how she felt when Twigbranch was upset about her mother.
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Oct 22, 2021 22:16:52 GMT -5
i voted for She was lonely, but she should've tried harder to find happiness in her clan. it's always been my stance when it comes to dovewing. she really should have tried harder to find happiness in her own clan. finding happiness without a mate: taking care of her clan by just focusing on her duties, spending more time with queens and kits and elders so she can reconnect with her roots and the future generations, volunteer to help other warriors with their apprentices, ask bramblestar for her own apprentice when the time comes for one, talk with her family more (espeically ivypool) and actually focus on understanding their perspectives on things. edit: forgot to add that she has younger warriors she could befriend and actually make an effort to conenct with...like wtf where r her friends in her own clan? lol theres literally numerous things she could have done. its literally tigerfart's fault for going into thunderclan in AVOS and guilt tripping her about their relationship. if he just backed off, she could have done all the things i listed above and actually moved on with her life without a mate. Good post. Dovewing could've easily gotten along with some of the nicer cats like Alderheart and Daisy. She needs someone gentle and understanding. She'd also get along well with Twigbranch too, I feel, especially since she was worried about how she felt when Twigbranch was upset about her mother. a dovewing-twigbranch friendship sounds so awesome. they could have been the perfect pair to help each other feel better in thunderclan and all that.
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Aroace
#ffa100
Name Colour
𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑
Villain Enjoyer
Taking a break from the forums because my cat died. Will probably be back mid to late October.
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Post by 𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑 on Oct 23, 2021 7:18:27 GMT -5
She was definitely lonely but should have also tried harder to find happiness in ThunderClan. Becoming friends with cats who could probably understand her or were just gentle souls (like Alderheart, Daisy and Twigbranch). Perhaps Dovewing could have even formed a friendship with Lionblaze and Cinderheart or gotten to know Graystripe better who also once fell in love with someone from another Clan.
Edit: But at the end of it all, it was up to Dovewing if she wanted to leave ThunderClan and find happiness with ShadowClan instead, so her choice to switch Clans was certainly justified in this regard.
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Post by Twilight Sparkle on Oct 23, 2021 9:33:20 GMT -5
Yes, and I don't blame her too much for not finding happiness within her own Clan; that's a bit like saying Rusty should have tried harder to find happiness with his Twoleg owners. I know it's different because Dovewing took an oath and swore loyalty to ThunderClan, but sometimes cats need to leave to find where they truly belong. I suppose it's even comparable to Talltail leaving his Clan, except he eventually returned.
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Asexual
#07B04C
star_black.png
Name Colour
Ṣanɗypaw™
The Shiny User
🎵Guess that's just the way it goes, easy come, easy go🎵
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Post by Ṣanɗypaw™ on Oct 23, 2021 17:45:47 GMT -5
Dovewing was definitely lonely, especially with her powers and such. But I don't mind that she left to find happiness in a different Clan because I think that telling her to just "try to be happy in ThunderClan" would be kind of rude, especially cause she so clearly wasn't happy.
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Post by tinfoilchan on Oct 23, 2021 18:32:30 GMT -5
"Gender has nothing to do with being cute"
Easy R
There wasn't really anyway for her to find happiness within her own clan. She felt suffocated by the crippling loneliness forced upon her by people much older than her. Literally what Thunderclan did to her was garbage and you know what? I'm happy she left Thunderclan and made herself happy. edit: From Lionblaze and Jayfeather forcing her to be away from any friendships, to Ivypool CONSTANTLY being harsh and critical to her for even BREATHING wrong, and being treated creepily by everyone around her in dovewing's silence? yeah no, Thunderclan is trash and she would have never been able to be happy.
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Aroace
#ffa100
Name Colour
𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑
Villain Enjoyer
Taking a break from the forums because my cat died. Will probably be back mid to late October.
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Post by 𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑 on Oct 24, 2021 7:52:26 GMT -5
"Gender has nothing to do with being cute"
Easy R
There wasn't really anyway for her to find happiness within her own clan. She felt suffocated by the crippling loneliness forced upon her by people much older than her. Literally what Thunderclan did to her was garbage and you know what? I'm happy she left Thunderclan and made herself happy. edit: From Lionblaze and Jayfeather forcing her to be away from any friendships, to Ivypool CONSTANTLY being harsh and critical to her for even BREATHING wrong, and being treated creepily by everyone around her in dovewing's silence? yeah no, Thunderclan is trash and she would have never been able to be happy.
Generalizing an entire group because one individual wasn't happy or treated right by a few members of ThunderClan isn't really fair though. Also, if you want to blame someone for Dovewing being overwhelmed and lonely due to her powers, it's StarClan (not any individual cat but their general involvement) as they are the ones who pushed for the prophecy to be fullfilled (Rock and Midnight as well). Lionblaze and Jayfeather didn't handle treating Dovepaw's fellings well at times but they were also part of the prophecy and had their parts to play in making sure it was followed as StarClan willed it to be. Lionblaze was also overwhelmed at times especially when he had dreams of his fighting power making him kill innocent cats and Jayfeather was shown as well to be unhappy with his fate on occasion. Their struggles just weren't focused on as much due to both narratives being concerned with other things. This is all just speculation/AU stuff on my part and not canon but I think Dovewing could have at least found one friend who she would have been able to confide in (gentle cats like Alderheart or Daisy as examples) but that is simply not how her story ended up written in AVoS and she instead chose to leave and eventually be happy somewhere else with Tigerheart.
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Post by tinfoilchan on Oct 24, 2021 12:44:07 GMT -5
"Gender has nothing to do with being cute"
Easy R
even when Jayfeather and Lionblaze had their powers, they all had people they could individually talk to. Lionblaze had Cinderheart (and at one point implied to be close to Honeyfern before she died), Jayfeather had Poppyfrost, Briarlight, and his own brother if he wanted to relate to someone else involved in the prophecy. Dovewing had no one. A lot of cats were really creepy to her about Bumblestripe like cats were with Bluefur and it is never ok! in real life or in warriors, to have people try and get people together who are just friends. It's gross! I would have left too tbh. Even Ivypool, the cat that was supposed to be her CLOSEST FRIEND, literally felt emotionally manipulative at times because she couldn't be apart of her "special treatment." Literally who would she talk to? Lionblaze and Jayfeather were constantly up her butt about the prophecy and she had no room to even try and be friendly with anyone.
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Aroace
#ffa100
Name Colour
𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑
Villain Enjoyer
Taking a break from the forums because my cat died. Will probably be back mid to late October.
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Post by 𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑 on Oct 24, 2021 12:58:40 GMT -5
"Gender has nothing to do with being cute"
Easy R
even when Jayfeather and Lionblaze had their powers, they all had people they could individually talk to. Lionblaze had Cinderheart (and at one point implied to be close to Honeyfern before she died), Jayfeather had Poppyfrost, Briarlight, and his own brother if he wanted to relate to someone else involved in the prophecy. Dovewing had no one. A lot of cats were really creepy to her about Bumblestripe like cats were with Bluefur and it is never ok! in real life or in warriors, to have people try and get people together who are just friends. It's gross! I would have left too tbh. Even Ivypool, the cat that was supposed to be her CLOSEST FRIEND, literally felt emotionally manipulative at times because she couldn't be apart of her "special treatment." Literally who would she talk to? Lionblaze and Jayfeather were constantly up her butt about the prophecy and she had no room to even try and be friendly with anyone.
That is on the writing team though as they were the ones who decided that most of Dovewing's arc in the entire story was going to be about her romance drama with Tigerheart (and Bumblestripe for a while). I agree with you that all of the ThunderClan cats who were trying to set her up with Bumblestripe were way out of line in this situation (Whitewing, Ivypool, Blossomfall and Bumblestripe himself) but saying ThunderClan sucked as a whole is just not true. Also, the part about Dovewing finding someone to talk was an idea on my part and is not canon. I simply thought gentle cats like Alderheart and Daisy or cats who could understand her situation like Graystripe and Leafpool (who both have been in love with cats from outside of TC) had potential for Dovewing to confide in and share thoughts with. Of course, this didn't end up happening but is still a possibility and dynamic to explore in AUs and such.
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Post by tinfoilchan on Oct 24, 2021 13:46:47 GMT -5
"Gender has nothing to do with being cute"
Easy R
I mean to be fair, I have a hard time believing that Greystripe would help knowing the fact that (and I'm pretty sure this happened but not entirely so if I'm wrong forgive me) he promises to help Squilf with Bramblestar and then leaves for his journey in Greystripe's vow. Greystripe is cool ans all, but really he just seems very unreliable.
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Aroace
#ffa100
Name Colour
𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑
Villain Enjoyer
Taking a break from the forums because my cat died. Will probably be back mid to late October.
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Post by 𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑 on Oct 24, 2021 14:00:57 GMT -5
"Gender has nothing to do with being cute"
Easy R
I mean to be fair, I have a hard time believing that Greystripe would help knowing the fact that (and I'm pretty sure this happened but not entirely so if I'm wrong forgive me) he promises to help Squilf with Bramblestar and then leaves for his journey in Greystripe's vow. Greystripe is cool ans all, but really he just seems very unreliable.
This happened after the TigerDove situation had been resolved although I do agree that it was a very confusing thing for Graystripe to do. Another cat who could have become friends with Dovewing was Twigbranch as she might have been able to look at her situation entirely from an outside perspective (I know her mentor was Ivypool but she still seemed more unbiased than others). Please keep in mind that these are just hypothetical what if scenarios and I was simply trying to explain why Dovewing would have been able to make some friends in ThunderClan if the writers had let her.
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Post by tinfoilchan on Oct 24, 2021 15:09:02 GMT -5
"Gender has nothing to do with being cute"
Easy R
yeah I'm not mad I just don't think it was a realistic possibility given how the writers just didn't care
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