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Post by Aqua on Oct 8, 2021 8:28:58 GMT -5
Is their relationship together healthy?
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Post by thewinterblaze on Oct 8, 2021 9:14:44 GMT -5
It's not extraordinarily healthy, but given that there isn't much abuse like we see in BrambleSquirrel, nor is there any untoward behavior going on like in SpottedThistle. Overall, although it's not a very popular ship, it's decently healthy.
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Post by Fireleap on Oct 8, 2021 9:27:16 GMT -5
It could be better, but it's not extremely unhealthy like some other ships.
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Lesbian
cinder :P
#1 FERNCLOUD + BREEZEPELT ENJOYER
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Post by cinder :P on Oct 8, 2021 9:29:27 GMT -5
Eh, it was sorta unhealthy on OOTS but in the other arcs it got better.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Oct 8, 2021 10:31:11 GMT -5
From day one, no.
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Post by Pixie on Oct 8, 2021 10:45:35 GMT -5
It used to not be, but now it is.
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Aroace
#ffa100
Name Colour
𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑
Villain Enjoyer
Taking a break from the forums because my cat died. Will probably be back mid to late October.
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Post by 𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑 on Oct 8, 2021 11:16:42 GMT -5
It certainly wasn't in the OotS arc and I still think Dovewing has given up more/put in actual work for their relationship than Tigerstar II ever bothered to do but at least they seem to be happy and drama free during TBC so I'm hoping that lasts from now on/stays this way.
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Post by Chicken on Oct 8, 2021 12:05:30 GMT -5
I think it's very healthy, they treat each other with kindness and respect, the only time I can think when it wasn't that great, was when Tigerheart spilled the beans about the herb garden in order to save Littlecloud's life.
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Post by Moonblazer on Oct 8, 2021 12:27:56 GMT -5
Nope
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Oct 8, 2021 13:33:38 GMT -5
no...dovewing's dependency on tigerheart to be happy is gross. their relationship had no reason to even begin...oh what? dovepaw was lonely because she missed her friends from the beaver journey? why? she has friends in her age group she could hang out with. she doesnt even try. and she continues to not try to make connections in her home clan which only furthers her dependency on tigerheart to even be happy...it's so stupid.
and tigerfart? he could never ever take his relationship with dovepaw/wing seriously. it was totally convinience for him and nothing else until she started talking about moving clans and having kits. something he was not ready for. then they kept arguing and breaking up too and dragged this all on out of guilt.
i hate this ship. OotS proves why they should have stayed broken up. you cant change my mind on any of this.
edit: forgot to add that continiously breaking the law to "be happy" is also gross and awful logic to portray as romantic or good. dovewing has loving parents and a sister she cares deeply about, so much so that she wants to keep working things out with her. this is why forbidden relationships r the definition of selfishness. no one cares about their family. they only care about this one hot person they met briefly, and can only meet in secret when they have fronts up bc they dont see them every day in normal life.
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Lesbian
cinder :P
#1 FERNCLOUD + BREEZEPELT ENJOYER
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Post by cinder :P on Oct 8, 2021 16:24:09 GMT -5
no...dovewing's dependency on tigerheart to be happy is gross. their relationship had no reason to even begin...oh what? dovepaw was lonely because she missed her friends from the beaver journey? why? she has friends in her age group she could hang out with. she doesnt even try. and she continues to not try to make connections in her home clan which only furthers her dependency on tigerheart to even be happy...it's so stupid. and tigerfart? he could never ever take his relationship with dovepaw/wing seriously. it was totally convinience for him and nothing else until she started talking about moving clans and having kits. something he was not ready for. then they kept arguing and breaking up too and dragged this all on out of guilt. i hate this ship. OotS proves why they should have stayed broken up. you cant change my mind on any of this. edit: forgot to add that continiously breaking the law to "be happy" is also gross and awful logic to portray as romantic or good. dovewing has loving parents and a sister she cares deeply about, so much so that she wants to keep working things out with her. this is why forbidden relationships r the definition of selfishness. no one cares about their family. they only care about this one hot person they met briefly, and can only meet in secret when they have fronts up bc they dont see them every day in normal life. "And a sister she cares deeply about" A sister who was very mad at her that time and didnt want to talk to her.
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Lesbian
cinder :P
#1 FERNCLOUD + BREEZEPELT ENJOYER
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Post by cinder :P on Oct 8, 2021 16:35:06 GMT -5
PLUS, The only apprentices that were around when Dovepaw was also one was BriarPaw, BumblePaw and BlossomPaw. Briarpaw was on the nursery all the time, Bumblepaw ( Who Dovepaw clearly disliked ) and Blossompaw who was a little jerk. Sooo..
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Post by Aqua on Oct 8, 2021 16:37:47 GMT -5
no...dovewing's dependency on tigerheart to be happy is gross. their relationship had no reason to even begin...oh what? dovepaw was lonely because she missed her friends from the beaver journey? why? she has friends in her age group she could hang out with. she doesnt even try. and she continues to not try to make connections in her home clan which only furthers her dependency on tigerheart to even be happy...it's so stupid. and tigerfart? he could never ever take his relationship with dovepaw/wing seriously. it was totally convinience for him and nothing else until she started talking about moving clans and having kits. something he was not ready for. then they kept arguing and breaking up too and dragged this all on out of guilt. i hate this ship. OotS proves why they should have stayed broken up. you cant change my mind on any of this. edit: forgot to add that continiously breaking the law to "be happy" is also gross and awful logic to portray as romantic or good. dovewing has loving parents and a sister she cares deeply about, so much so that she wants to keep working things out with her. this is why forbidden relationships r the definition of selfishness. no one cares about their family. they only care about this one hot person they met briefly, and can only meet in secret when they have fronts up bc they dont see them every day in normal life. First of all, there's nothing wrong with depending on someone for your happiness, as long as you're respectful to that person who makes you happy. And most of her life, Dovewing HAS respected Tigerheart. It was only one mistake she made with him when she manipulated him, but other than that, she has always admired Tigerheart and treated him with love and respect and cared about him. It was Tigerheart who depended on Dovewing. Dovewing tried to find happiness in her clan with her sister. She HAS attempted to be with friends, but it was hinted that they only cared about her for her powers and not for who she really was. This is why she liked Tigerheart at all to begin with: because she could be herself around him, and not some cat to expect to be used as a pair of ears. This is why she was lonely. Everyone admired Dovewing's hunting skills, but she was really only good because of her powers, and it made her miserable because this kept pushing Ivypool away from her, which started the jealousy in the first place. She also tried to connect with Bumblestripe, and while she handled it for the completely wrong reasons, at least she TRIED to move on from Tigerheart. It was Tigerheart who refused to allow her to move on, and wouldn't respect her feelings on this. There's a reason why Ivypool was so protective about this situation between them, and why she never liked Tigerheart in the first place. Dovewing wanted to move on from Tigerheart. And she tried. There's many sentences of her staring someplace else and avoiding Tigerheart at gatherings when he asks for her, while Ivypool defends her and makes sure he stays away. I'm not mad at you, Briar, but your opinion is heavily baised when it comes to Dovewing. She made multiple attempts to try to move on from Tigerheart. But sometimes things don't work out and that's fine, she made the best choice she could by moving to ShadowClan for the father and his kits. She just wasn't meant to be a ThunderClan cat, I suppose. Even though it's still weird for me to accept she's in ShadowClan now, it's pretty obvious she's so much happier there.
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Post by ✲ριкαƒυєу✲ on Oct 8, 2021 16:38:17 GMT -5
no...dovewing's dependency on tigerheart to be happy is gross. their relationship had no reason to even begin...oh what? dovepaw was lonely because she missed her friends from the beaver journey? why? she has friends in her age group she could hang out with. she doesnt even try. and she continues to not try to make connections in her home clan which only furthers her dependency on tigerheart to even be happy...it's so stupid. and tigerfart? he could never ever take his relationship with dovepaw/wing seriously. it was totally convinience for him and nothing else until she started talking about moving clans and having kits. something he was not ready for. then they kept arguing and breaking up too and dragged this all on out of guilt. i hate this ship. OotS proves why they should have stayed broken up. you cant change my mind on any of this. edit: forgot to add that continiously breaking the law to "be happy" is also gross and awful logic to portray as romantic or good. dovewing has loving parents and a sister she cares deeply about, so much so that she wants to keep working things out with her. this is why forbidden relationships r the definition of selfishness. no one cares about their family. they only care about this one hot person they met briefly, and can only meet in secret when they have fronts up bc they dont see them every day in normal life. "And a sister she cares deeply about" A sister who does not care about her feelings at all and is angry at her. Except Ivypool does care about her and has a rightful reason to upset at her. She betrayed her Clan, disappeared without telling anyone, etc.
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Post by Aqua on Oct 8, 2021 16:41:38 GMT -5
no...dovewing's dependency on tigerheart to be happy is gross. their relationship had no reason to even begin...oh what? dovepaw was lonely because she missed her friends from the beaver journey? why? she has friends in her age group she could hang out with. she doesnt even try. and she continues to not try to make connections in her home clan which only furthers her dependency on tigerheart to even be happy...it's so stupid. and tigerfart? he could never ever take his relationship with dovepaw/wing seriously. it was totally convinience for him and nothing else until she started talking about moving clans and having kits. something he was not ready for. then they kept arguing and breaking up too and dragged this all on out of guilt. i hate this ship. OotS proves why they should have stayed broken up. you cant change my mind on any of this. edit: forgot to add that continiously breaking the law to "be happy" is also gross and awful logic to portray as romantic or good. dovewing has loving parents and a sister she cares deeply about, so much so that she wants to keep working things out with her. this is why forbidden relationships r the definition of selfishness. no one cares about their family. they only care about this one hot person they met briefly, and can only meet in secret when they have fronts up bc they dont see them every day in normal life. "And a sister she cares deeply about" A sister who does not care about her feelings at all and is angry at her. Ivypool had every right to be angry at Dovewing. Dovewing lied to her clan and took advantage of her and she left for several moons and her family thought she was dead, only for Dovewing to return to say that she's leaving for a ShadowClan tom. I'd say it's a pretty good reason to be pissed at her. This is coming from someone who doesn't even care about Ivypool that much. But her feelings are extremely understandable. Ivypool eventually moved on and understood why she wanted to be with Tigerheart anyways and had her own litter with Fernsong. Edit: I know some are probably surprised at me for defending Ivypool, lol. I have always understood her feelings about Dovewing, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with them. I still thing her actions were wrong for some cases and I think she should've listened to Dovewing about what she needed, and I don't like how she gave her the cold shoulder, but those are my two cents about that situation on her. Doesn't mean I don't understand her.
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Lesbian
cinder :P
#1 FERNCLOUD + BREEZEPELT ENJOYER
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Post by cinder :P on Oct 8, 2021 16:44:39 GMT -5
"And a sister she cares deeply about" A sister who does not care about her feelings at all and is angry at her. Except Ivypool does care about her and has a rightful reason to upset at her. She betrayed her Clan, disappeared without telling anyone, etc. Yeah, the point is she reaally didn't want to talk to Dovewing, tho it was understandable i guess.
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Post by Aqua on Oct 8, 2021 16:49:19 GMT -5
Except Ivypool does care about her and has a rightful reason to upset at her. She betrayed her Clan, disappeared without telling anyone, etc. Yeah, the point is she reaally didn't want to talk to Dovewing, tho it was understandable i guess. I have a theory that if the two of them both actually talked to Dovewing instead of just one of them being too stupid to know how to deal with her (Tigerheart) and Ivypool trying to listen to Dovewing's feelings instead of being angry at her, Dovewing might not have left. A lot of people say Dovewing wanted approval, but there's no evidence in the books that says that. She just wanted someone to talk to and she had no one who understood her, and talking to anyone else in the clan about her fears would only raise suspicions about her relationship with Tigerheart. It's pretty cowardly, but I understand why Dovewing didn't want to talk to anyone in her clan. Tigerheart didn't know how to support her, and Ivypool was too angry to deal with her at the time. Dovewing had no one, but she honestly should've just learned to deal with her own feelings or talked to Bumblestripe at least. I feel like Bumblestripe would've tried to understand her feelings, and wouldn't have reported her for breaking the warrior code. I don't blame anyone for the situation, but this could've been easily solved if they all sat down and talked to Dovewing and listened to her. It's pretty sad and I sympathize with her a lot, really. She never really had anyone to talk to about her feelings about anything. The three treated her like a pair of ears, Tigerheart liked her for being himself around her but wasn't mature enough to communicate properly with her, and Ivypool avoided her a lot because of her jealousy. The closest cat she was able to talk to was Bumblestripe, but she never liked him enough to share her close, personal feelings with him. She was lonely, and I pity her, really. It's why I'm not mad at her for leaving for ShadowClan. Nobody truly understood her feelings about Tigerheart in ThunderClan, so it's a wonder she's happier in ShadowClan with her new family. Everyone there understands her, Tawnypelt loves her kits, and Tigerheart makes sure she's respected in her clan. ShadowClan loves her, while ThunderClan expected too much out of her, so I understand why she's happier in SC with her kits and mate. She was always expected to do too much for others because of the prophecy, and for Ivypool to be happy she had to drop Tigerheart. Being in ThunderClan just wasn't going to work out. Dovewing wanted to be happy with her family and there's no shame in that. I just wish she handled the situation so much better without running off or lying to her clan about it. She should have left seasons ago.
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Oct 8, 2021 17:07:49 GMT -5
Ehh... it could be better (so, so much better), but I think they're fine now that they're finally in the same Clan, which really should've happened a long time ago.
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Oct 8, 2021 17:16:38 GMT -5
PLUS, The only apprentices that were around when Dovepaw was also one was BriarPaw, BumblePaw and BlossomPaw. Briarpaw was on the nursery all the time, Bumblepaw ( Who Dovepaw clearly disliked ) and Blossompaw who was a little jerk. Sooo.. Wait, what are you talking about? Blossompaw I get and even then she was more Ivypaw's bully than Dovepaw's, but Briarpaw was never in the nursery and Dovepaw had no issues with Bumblepaw at the time. She wasn't close to them, sure, but this isn't entirely accurate, either.
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Oct 8, 2021 17:17:11 GMT -5
Aqua yeah i understand. agree to disagree. i am biased and i wont change my opinion on dovewing, dove x tiger in oots, or fobidden romance in general. i view it as the ultimate form of selfishness
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Asexual
#07B04C
star_black.png
Name Colour
Ṣanɗypaw™
The Shiny User
🎵Guess that's just the way it goes, easy come, easy go🎵
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Post by Ṣanɗypaw™ on Oct 8, 2021 17:20:09 GMT -5
Right now since TigerDove lives together in ShadowClan, yes it is. They love each other, have a family, and are getting along fine.
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Post by cable on Oct 8, 2021 17:51:33 GMT -5
honestly re: everything above utterly despise that you have the please your family and care more about their happiness than your own. if leaving made dovewing happy then i dont care if its selfish. i wish i could make a decision like that for myself. Good For Her.png
as for their relationship: didnt like it in oots. its fine now. im glad dovewing is happy after struggling so much throughout her life.
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Cloudstorm
Don’t let it kill you. Even when it hurts like hell.
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Post by Cloudstorm on Oct 8, 2021 18:54:18 GMT -5
Aqua .
Feel free to Correct me if I’m Wrong , Since it’s been a Really long time Since I’ve read OoTS . But the problem there is that yes , they could say down and talked things out with Dovewing , if they were actually made Aware of the tribulations/problems that she was Suffering from , but Since she seems incapable of speaking up to anyone about them , just prefers to Silently brood over them instead . And pretty sure only Lionblaze and Jayfeather (and Firestar if I remember correctly) actually knew about her Powers , and the prophecy for that matter , so kinda confused about you implicating that the whole clan had these overbearing expectations from her . And yes Ivypool was A little stinker when she was an Apprentice , and really either side instigating some kind of conversation to try to work there issues out between them would of been great (but then we wouldn’t have drama , and that’s basically the backbone holding this series afloat nowadays). And once the prophecy was Fulfilled and the 3s powers were Gone , she didn’t have to worry about those expectencies any longer either , so would of Freed up a lot of her time to Finally sit down with her Family/Friends, Bumblestripe (weather they stay together , or she explains that there not gonna work out politely , like Squirrelflight tried to do to Ashfur ) I would of been fine with her decision either way really . Instead of Remaining relatively Detached/Estranged from everyone , because she can’t be with someone that Understands her so well( Thick Sarcasm) and live a perfect little, Carefree life completely Void of any responsibility or life Struggles , cause that is totally how reality Plays out . And I find it incredibly Disturbing/Gross that after Dovewing Chews out Bumblestripe for wanting Kits ( yeah they weren’t mates anymore, and the timing to bring up rekindling there relationship etc , was a bit inappropriate admittedly) and even adamantly affirms that she doesn’t want kits , only to immediately after , go on the mission to find Twigbranch and Violetshine’s mother with Tigerheart(where they Clearly Mated and she got pregnant during ). And then she runs away from TC and Manipulates Tigerheart to choose between her or Shadowclan(since Apparently Boneheaded Tigerhearts Feelings for her run so Shallow that it’s necessary for Dovewing to use manipulation for him to support her ) which he goes running after her , IMO at this point more from Obligation to take accountability for having kits with her , then him actually, truly loving her . Dovewing has clearly been nothing more then a Playful Distraction to Tigerheart , nothing more then an excuse to leave his responsibilities behind , and separate himself from reality , otherwise he would of taken there so-called relationship far more seriously from the beginning , and treating her Feelings like a Joke up until “ Oh Sh*t your Having my Kids , that changes everything” ewwww . There relationship is unhealthy to both parties and Tigerhearts insensitivity/aloofness probably greatly contributed to Why Dovewing struggled to Confide about her Feelings/problems with her Parents/Sister and Bumblestripe in the First place , since she probably figured they wouldn’t take her seriously .which can be Considered as Tigerheart being Borderline Abusive , though maybe unintentional since he’s such a huge Moran . I firmly Believe these 2 have done FAR more Damage to Eachother then have ever done Good. I’ve standed by that opinion for 10+ Years and Nothing is ever Gonna make me Think differently about there relationship, though plenty of people have tried to persuade me to think otherwise .
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Post by platinum blond death on Oct 9, 2021 0:31:43 GMT -5
it was kinda bad at the beginning but since they've stayed in shadowclan i think they're actually a pretty great couple. wish the whole oots stuff didn't happen tho.
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Post by crowspirit on Oct 9, 2021 4:49:22 GMT -5
I think it used to be rather unhealthy, but now it's relatively healthy.
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Post by tallshadowstar on Oct 10, 2021 16:27:40 GMT -5
I hate that they got together when Tigerheart was a warrior and Dovewing was an apprentice, but in the modern books they're one of the most stable and loving couples in the series. I'm also happy that Dovewing did something for herself for once, after a lifetime of being what others wanted her to be.
Also, Dovewing has no obligation to be her sister's emotional support cat, even if they are close. I've been in that situation and it's not a healthy dynamic for anyone involved. I understand why both sisters acted the way they did back in ThS, but Ivypool is a grown-up and has a family of her own now.
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Post by Aqua on Oct 10, 2021 16:55:44 GMT -5
I hate that they got together when Tigerheart was a warrior and Dovewing was an apprentice, but in the modern books they're one of the most stable and loving couples in the series. I'm also happy that Dovewing did something for herself for once, after a lifetime of being what others wanted her to be. Also, Dovewing has no obligation to be her sister's emotional support cat, even if they are close. I've been in that situation and it's not a healthy dynamic for anyone involved. I understand why both sisters acted the way they did back in ThS, but Ivypool is a grown-up and has a family of her own now. I agree with you. Ivypool expected too much from Dovewing. I understand why she felt betrayed, but she expected Dovewing to drop what made her happy, and that wasn't fair. My problem with Ivypool is that she didn't try to talk to Dovewing about her fears. She never understood why Dovewing liked a ShadowClan cat instead of someone in ThunderClan. Instead she gave her sister the cold shoulder instead of communicating with her about why Dovewing is stressed out. I know Dovewing is bad to her, but honestly? Ivypool gave her so much crap as a 'paw, clawed Tigerheart's face, dropped communication with Dovewing, all because she's mad at her for something. It's a good reason, but Ivypool never tried to understand Dovewing's feelings about Tigerheart. So in the end, I can't entirely find too much fault for Dovewing to want to be happy in ShadowClan, because she has done everything for them, and tried to make sure her sister was safe from the Dark Forest. Ivypool has always treated Dovewing like crap, and her clan expected her to be this fantastic warrior because of the prophecy. Dovewing has always understood Ivypool's feelings and jealousy, so why can't Ivypool do the same? She really didn't start truly understanding Dovewing's feelings up until she had a litter of her own, and then accepted why Dovewing left. Again, I understand Ivypool, but honestly, she never really understood her feelings about Tigerheart or breaking the warrior code. Dovewing tried to understand her about her jealousy and self-esteem problems. I just wish Ivypool did the same for her. In the end, it's a shame both sisters eventually separated because of Tigerheart. They were beginning to communicate well after TLH and finally began to get along. I understand completely how both sisters feel about each other. Ivypool was just worried about Dovewing breaking the warrior code and ruining her reputation, but Dovewing was also worried about Ivypool training in the Dark Forest. Ivypool expected too much from Dovewing, blaming her for being in the Dark Forest, while Dovewing wanted to be happy with Tigerheart, and that meant breaking the warrior code and betraying her clan. Her clan, Bumblestripe, and Ivypool didn't understand why she wasn't ever happy in ThunderClan because of her stupid powers. Dovewing never really had anyone who truly understood her, which is why she liked Tigerheart in the first place. She was able to be herself around him.
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