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Post by Aqua on Oct 6, 2021 13:12:11 GMT -5
Do you think Squirrelflight was right to lie to Brambleclaw about the three?
Please be respectful in the comments about this character.
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Aroace
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𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑
Villain Enjoyer
Taking a break from the forums because my cat died. Will probably be back mid to late October.
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Post by 𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑 on Oct 6, 2021 13:26:45 GMT -5
I don't think she was right to lie to him (and the original three) because it caused so much pain for them when the truth was revealed. That being said, Squirrelflight was also manipulated by StarClan to take care of Leafpool's kits and even refused multiple times before they finally told her she was barren (thus never able to have kits of her own) just to convince her of it. They (StarClan) basically used her utter devastation at hearing those (false) news so she would do their bidding. But while it is clear that she never meant to harm Brambleclaw (or Holly, Lion and Jay) by lying to them, this doesn't change the fact that it did hurt them deeply.
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Oct 6, 2021 14:23:34 GMT -5
no. i prefer the AU where leafpool and squirrelflight first tell brambleclaw together. then the three of them go tell firestar and sandstorm. then all five of them can work together to make a plan. tell the clan the truth. make ferncloud nurse the kits like she does in canon anyways. nothing would really change except for how the clan would react. firestar would not banish his own kit, let alone their only medicine cat. they would have to accept this and let leafpool stay. she can visit her kits in the nursery twice a day or something, but still focus on her medicine cat duties. squirrelflight and sandstorm could then visit ferncloud daily as well to double check how she and the kits r all doing too.
sure, there's a few a-holes in the clan who would be rude to the cats involved after it's revealed (spiderleg, thornclaw, ashfur, etc. idk who else), but who cares? they have to listen to firestar AND brambleclaw. plus, who would actually want their only medicine cat to be banished and be left defenseless with no one to heal them?
i bet brambleclaw would 100% encourage the sisters to come clean.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Oct 6, 2021 16:07:12 GMT -5
No. She also didn't make her choice only after after StarClan told her she was barren, because even after that she still refused. The only reason she chose to help was because after seeing the kits herself she fell in love with them and wanted to protect them and Leafpool.
But at the end of the day that doesn't make her lying to Bramblestar right. There is no excuse to not telling him the truth. StarClan didn't tell her that she had to use Bramble as father fodder, only that the kits HAD to be raised in TC. She lied to Bramble, used him, and didn't even trust him enough with the truth, while also helping Leaf ruin the three's lives.
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Post by Skypaw13 on Oct 6, 2021 16:10:09 GMT -5
No, Brambleclaw was like the one cat who SHOULD have known from the beginning. I get lying to everyone else-- Leader/father, friends, Clans generally-- but Brambleclaw? No, he should have been told.
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Asexual
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Ṣanɗypaw™
The Shiny User
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Post by Ṣanɗypaw™ on Oct 6, 2021 17:31:26 GMT -5
Nope, not at all. Bramblestar was her mate so she should have trusted him.
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Cloudstorm
Don’t let it kill you. Even when it hurts like hell.
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Post by Cloudstorm on Oct 6, 2021 23:27:38 GMT -5
No . I mean The consideration of lying to your partner (Especially on Something that HUGE) should never progress past entering the Conscious mind , from the Sub-conscious mind , and immediately discarded . I can understand squirrelflight and leafpool lying to the rest of the clan , to prevent gossip spreading to the other clans and such. But considering what Brambleclaw and squirrelflight have endured together at this point , I’m pretty sure he would have supported both of them , might have been a little hesitant and need some persuading , but I’m sure he would agreed to keep there secret and raise them as if he was the Father 100%, I mean Heck he fabricated a Lie about Ashfur’s Death to Cover Hollyleafs A$$ . Shoot she could of probably just brought up the fact that she’s barren , and this would be there only chance to Raise kits of there own, and he’d be convinced off that piece of information alone for all we know (of course she never told him ever ).
And as a Side note just for the Records: I Personally Don’t View Leafpools wish as Cannon , since it’s obviously there just to make you feel sympathetic for squirrelflight and Leafpool , and I never Acknowledged in Context as continuity by the Rest of the Series ,aside from Being immediately Retconned 4 months later in the Manga at the End of Bramblestars Storm , none of the other events are ever mentioned , brought up , are regarded as actually happening , Squirrelflights Hope during the Trial scene in Starclan? Think I’d pretty enflamed if I was being trialed for Crimes that I was supposed to have been manipulated into committing by my Godly-Figure if you will in the first place . If the events of leafpools wish are Cannon , why wasn’t only Leafpool trialed then ?. Though this can probably be applied to most of the Novellas , there so sloppily written imo , they feel more like Spin-offs then actual entries into the Series .
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Post by ✲ριкαƒυєу✲ on Oct 6, 2021 23:31:04 GMT -5
As much as I love her, I have to say no. Brambleclaw was her mate, someone she could trust.
To lie to someone about their kids not being theirs is an awful thing to do, even if the intentions are good. I get she wanted to protect her sister, but Brambleclaw wouldn't have betrayed Squirrelflight if she were honest with him.
And to find out the way he did was just awful in itself. His whole family was a lie so to speak. I can only imagine the humiliation and betrayal he felt. No wonder he was cold to her so long afterwards. I don't blame him for that at all.
Squirrelflight messed up here. Good intentions or not
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Cloudstorm
Don’t let it kill you. Even when it hurts like hell.
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Post by Cloudstorm on Oct 6, 2021 23:37:31 GMT -5
As much as I love her, I have to say no. Brambleclaw was her mate, someone she could trust. To lie to someone about their kids not being theirs is an awful thing to do, even if the intentions are good. I get she wanted to protect her sister, but Brambleclaw wouldn't have betrayed Squirrelflight if she were honest with him. And to find out the way he did was just awful in itself. His whole family was a lie so to speak. I can only imagine the humiliation and betrayal he felt. No wonder he was cold to her so long afterwards. I don't blame him for that at all. Squirrelflight messed up here. Good intentions or not humiliation and betrayal probably only scratches the surface . And Honestly it’s pretty impressive he ever decided to get back together with her , and forgave her .
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Oct 6, 2021 23:40:11 GMT -5
Cloudstormtrue. tons of fathers who get lied to end up messed up for years. squirrelflight's lucky he ever forgave her at all.
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Cloudstorm
Don’t let it kill you. Even when it hurts like hell.
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Post by Cloudstorm on Oct 7, 2021 0:03:24 GMT -5
Cloudstormtrue. tons of fathers who get lied to end up messed up for years. squirrelflight's lucky he ever forgave her at all. shoot , I know plenty that have been messed up for life from this , its Tragic .
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Post by Flamefrost on Oct 7, 2021 8:15:18 GMT -5
No, but I understand why she did it.
At this point she and Brambleclaw had only just gotten back together (The Three are born 2 moons after the badger attack where they make up), and she has first-hand experience on how spiteful Bramble can be and no reassurance that he'd agree to the plan.
Plus, she had no time to talk to him about her decision before the rest of the Clan found out, as she only decided to take the kits once they were already born. She would have had to of brought the gone back to camp and start the plan without Bramble's consent, let him be initially ecstatic, and then in private tell him the truth and break his heart. I think she SHOULD have done this, but I don't think there was ever an easy way out.
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Post by Twilight Sparkle on Oct 7, 2021 8:58:51 GMT -5
She should have let him know.
Protecting his reputation or being afraid of his reaction isn't as bad as withholding such a vital secret from him. Even if he did react negatively or get into trouble, it would be his own choice and conscience, not Squirrelflight's fault. In keeping the secret, she held all the blame, but it wasn't worth it if it meant hurting Brambleclaw so deeply.
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Post by 𝐛𝐥𝟒𝐜𝐤𝐬𝐨𝐥 on Oct 7, 2021 9:49:06 GMT -5
No. She should have told him, no matter what StarClan said. Brambleclaw had the right to know.
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Post by 𝐛𝐥𝟒𝐜𝐤𝐬𝐨𝐥 on Oct 7, 2021 9:51:01 GMT -5
No, but I understand why she did it. At this point she and Brambleclaw had only just gotten back together (The Three are born 2 moons after the badger attack where they make up), and she has first-hand experience on how spiteful Bramble can be and no reassurance that he'd agree to the plan. Plus, she had no time to talk to him about her decision before the rest of the Clan found out, as she only decided to take the kits once they were already born. She would have had to of brought the gone back to camp and start the plan without Bramble's consent, let him be initially ecstatic, and then in private tell him the truth and break his heart. I think she SHOULD have done this, but I don't think there was ever an easy way out. I couldn't have said it better. I completely agree with you.
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