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Post by Rainstorm1026 on Sept 22, 2021 18:04:52 GMT -5
Ashfur's character is now a generic "muahahaha" villain. I mean he was a bad cat before, but the whole "take over teh world" thing I'm hearing about feels a bit trite
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Post by Katanaheart on Sept 22, 2021 18:27:09 GMT -5
I’ve read the first four books and he’s not really that. More of manipulative villain because he wants to be with/harm Squirrelflight. It’s his same old MO, entirely in character. (It’s just now Ashfur is pulling the other Clans into it.) Everything else is kind of a bargaining chip to either harm or have Squirrelflight be with him.
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Sept 22, 2021 18:39:51 GMT -5
this is coming from someone who hates TBC, so take my opinion with a grain of salt since u havent read it yet:
imo, TBC is trite and dumb overall. hardly anything is explained well if at all (like HOW this is happening, why NOW of all times this is hapening, WHY hasn't this been done before, etc. i could go on and on to say why i think TBC is such garbage).
everything happening in this arc is a huge leap in logic for me and it makes no sense. it still doesn't, and the arc is almost done. if they think shoving in all the "explanations" at the last minute is ok, then i don't want their "explanations." there's not even been any hints to WHY or HOW things are happening the way they are for the past 5 books.
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Post by vectoring34 on Sept 22, 2021 18:42:07 GMT -5
At no point does Ashfur ever express a desire to take over the world. In fact, Ashfur does his best to stay incognito and throw the other clans off his scent with his codebreaker rules while he enjoys his time with Squirrelflight at first. When he thinks she's dead, he does go a little bit unstable and starts a war for no reason, but once he realizes she's alive again, he's back to manipulating things yet again to try to be with her. The closest he gets to expressing what you're saying is when he says he wants the clans to suffer in this line
But this isn't him wanting to take over the world, it's him flipping out and wanting them all to suffer so he can have revenge because he feels like they've all betrayed him. That sounds plenty Ashfur to me, the guy loved his revenge after all.
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Post by Rainstorm1026 on Sept 22, 2021 19:22:31 GMT -5
At no point does Ashfur ever express a desire to take over the world. In fact, Ashfur does his best to stay incognito and throw the other clans off his scent with his codebreaker rules while he enjoys his time with Squirrelflight at first. When he thinks she's dead, he does go a little bit unstable and starts a war for no reason, but once he realizes she's alive again, he's back to manipulating things yet again to try to be with her. The closest he gets to expressing what you're saying is when he says he wants the clans to suffer in this line But this isn't him wanting to take over the world, it's him flipping out and wanting them all to suffer so he can have revenge because he feels like they've all betrayed him. That sounds plenty Ashfur to me, the guy loved his revenge after all. Ah.
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Cloudstorm
Don’t let it kill you. Even when it hurts like hell.
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Post by Cloudstorm on Sept 22, 2021 19:32:17 GMT -5
this is coming from someone who hates TBC, so take my opinion with a grain of salt since u havent read it yet: imo, TBC is trite and dumb overall. hardly anything is explained well if at all (like HOW this is happening, why NOW of all times this is hapening, WHY hasn't this been done before, etc. i could go on and on to say why i think TBC is such garbage). everything happening in this arc is a huge leap in logic for me and it makes no sense. it still doesn't, and the arc is almost done. if they think shoving in all the "explanations" at the last minute is ok, then i don't want their "explanations." there's not even been any hints to WHY or HOW things are happening the way they are for the past 5 books. while I have Greatly enjoyed TBC so far ( I’m only up to Veil of shadows). I agree 100% with this statement . and there has been really poor execution/lack of explanations for how things are happening, like how the hell has Ashfur suddenly Acquired these godlike powers? Ha probably a question the Erins themselves don’t even know the answer too .of course this Kind of lack of logic , Logic lol has been plaguing this Series for years so not too surprising to me . My expectations for this series as a Whole is so Low , if they by some miracle Happened to publish an Arc without Forbidden romance Drama for at least the first 2 books , my Mind would be Blown away , and I would probably leap for Joy , at such a Tremendous Milestone of Achievement for the Erins to accomplish , alas that is unlikely to happen though .
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Sept 22, 2021 20:12:03 GMT -5
this is coming from someone who hates TBC, so take my opinion with a grain of salt since u havent read it yet: imo, TBC is trite and dumb overall. hardly anything is explained well if at all (like HOW this is happening, why NOW of all times this is hapening, WHY hasn't this been done before, etc. i could go on and on to say why i think TBC is such garbage). everything happening in this arc is a huge leap in logic for me and it makes no sense. it still doesn't, and the arc is almost done. if they think shoving in all the "explanations" at the last minute is ok, then i don't want their "explanations." there's not even been any hints to WHY or HOW things are happening the way they are for the past 5 books. while I have Greatly enjoyed TBC so far ( I’m only up to Veil of shadows) I agree 100% with this statement , and really poor execution/lack of explanations for how things are happening/ how the hell has Ashfur suddenly Acquired these godlike powers? Ha probably a question the Erins themselves don’t even know the answer too .of course this Kind of lack of logic , Logic lol has been plaguing this Series for years so not too surprising to me . My expectations for this series as a Whole is so Low , if they by some miracle Happened to publish an Arc without Forbidden romance Drama for at least the first 2 books , my Mind would be Blown away , and I would probably leap for Joy , at such a Tremendous Milestone of Achievement for the Erins to accomplish , alas that is unlikely to happen though . oh sorry for misunderstanding. i have read up to book 3 of TBC and go through the rest of the arc via spoilers (because im not going to waste money on books i wont like). i just dont like it when a series is like "this new magic mcguffin we came up with has always existed but we just didnt mention it or hint about its existence until now because we need a new plot/threat, so lets pretend like this is all normal and was always a thing even though it makes no sense!" thats how i view all of TBC. i hate how none of this new stuff was ever given hints or clues, and i bet they'll try to cram in an explanation dump in the last book lol
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Post by vectoring34 on Sept 22, 2021 20:14:49 GMT -5
As far as explanations go, Ashfur is a Starclan cat and he was given authority to touch the living world by Starclan. Then he abused his position and went against Starclan with that same authority.
That's really all there is to it, and there is precedent set for it from earlier in the series for every single one of his powers.
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Cloudstorm
Don’t let it kill you. Even when it hurts like hell.
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Post by Cloudstorm on Sept 22, 2021 20:27:35 GMT -5
As far as explanations go, Ashfur is a Starclan cat and he was given authority to touch the living world by Starclan. Then he abused his position and went against Starclan with that same authority. That's really all there is to it, and there is precedent set for it from earlier in the series for every single one of his powers. now I must ponder the Question , why the hell would Starclan Grant that kind of authority to a Psychopath……. Of course , his only Sin Apparently was to Love to Much ,that’s a perfectly Rational explanation and completely Justifies multiple accounts of attempted murder , he’s positively a chill , collected , sane pickle . What possible harm could befall the living from Ashfur touching the living world ? . oh man , that almost makes me want to Cancel my preorder for ALiTM , but then I wouldn’t have a complete Set of books, ugh the headache .
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Post by vectoring34 on Sept 22, 2021 20:46:43 GMT -5
As far as explanations go, Ashfur is a Starclan cat and he was given authority to touch the living world by Starclan. Then he abused his position and went against Starclan with that same authority. That's really all there is to it, and there is precedent set for it from earlier in the series for every single one of his powers. now I must ponder the Question , why the hell would Starclan Grant that kind of authority to a Psychopath……. Of course , his only Sin Apparently was to Love to Much ,that’s a perfectly Rational explanation and completely Justifies multiple accounts of attempted murder , he’s positively a chill , collected , sane pickle . What possible harm could befall the living from Ashfur touching the living world ? . oh man , that almost makes me want to Cancel my preorder for ALiTM , but then I wouldn’t have a complete Set of books, ugh the headache . Because Starclan makes mistakes, this precedent has been established since PoT, arguably TNP.
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Post by Chicken on Sept 22, 2021 20:56:12 GMT -5
Here are a list of pros and cons I have for this arc.
Pros:
1. You get to see a forbidden romance as it's happening from BOTH perspectives, it's also probably the most mature forbidden relationship this series actually has.
2. Each of the POV characters are really likable and have decent storylines imo. Though Bristlefrost's may not be as exciting as Rootspring's or Shadowsight's, I still find it enjoyable to read.
Cons:
1. Ashfur being the main villain, I feel like other cats could have fit better for what they were going for, I hate that out of all cats, they chose to give this immense power to him, I know that incels exist irl, but this is a book series, and I find it to be bad writing, like they wrote it to center around Squirrelflight's Hope or something.
2. The pacing is super freakin weird.
3. Not enough moments between characters because it's so plot focused.
I will add more if I can think of it.
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Post by cable on Sept 22, 2021 21:15:23 GMT -5
3. Not enough moments between characters because it's so plot focused. i actually feel like this arc has a lot of really good character moments. it strongly establishes the growing bond between rootspring and tree, actually has bristlefrost internally examine her own feelings and then discuss them with ivypool in a mature manner, and i think this arc is actually the only reason i even like tigerheartstar, he has a very strong bond with shadowsight. plus the relationship beween rootspring and shadowsight is a p good one.
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Post by Chicken on Sept 22, 2021 21:20:31 GMT -5
3. Not enough moments between characters because it's so plot focused. i actually feel like this arc has a lot of really good character moments. it strongly establishes the growing bond between rootspring and tree, actually has bristlefrost internally examine her own feelings and then discuss them with ivypool in a mature manner, and i think this arc is actually the only reason i even like tigerheartstar, he has a very strong bond with shadowsight. plus the relationship beween rootspring and shadowsight is a p good one. That's true, but I meant among the background characters, back then, they seemed to have so much more character and life, but we still hardly know anything about them, despite three clans having a POV character, it seems like we knew more about the background characters from other clans when they didn't have a POV, and that's a shame.
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Post by cable on Sept 22, 2021 21:24:06 GMT -5
i actually feel like this arc has a lot of really good character moments. it strongly establishes the growing bond between rootspring and tree, actually has bristlefrost internally examine her own feelings and then discuss them with ivypool in a mature manner, and i think this arc is actually the only reason i even like tigerheartstar, he has a very strong bond with shadowsight. plus the relationship beween rootspring and shadowsight is a p good one. That's true, but I meant among the background characters, back then, they seemed to have so much more character and life, but we still hardly know anything about them, despite three clans having a POV character, it seems like we knew more about the background characters from other clans when they didn't have a POV, and that's a shame. i think the clans getting so big is a contributing factor to that. at this point its mear impossible to solidly characterize everybody in the background. id definitely like the clans to go back to tpb sizes so the background characters can all get even some light personality or moments
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Post by Chicken on Sept 22, 2021 21:25:44 GMT -5
That's true, but I meant among the background characters, back then, they seemed to have so much more character and life, but we still hardly know anything about them, despite three clans having a POV character, it seems like we knew more about the background characters from other clans when they didn't have a POV, and that's a shame. i think the clans getting so big is a contributing factor to that. at this point its mear impossible to solidly characterize everybody in the background. id definitely like the clans to go back to tpb sizes so the background characters can all get even some light personality or moments That's true. If they killed off cats like they did back then, then it wouldn't be an issue lol, but they're afraid to let go of the older characters, and at the same time, they're aging up the newer characters super quick and pairing them off which adds even MORE cats to the clans.
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Post by cable on Sept 22, 2021 21:31:01 GMT -5
i think the clans getting so big is a contributing factor to that. at this point its mear impossible to solidly characterize everybody in the background. id definitely like the clans to go back to tpb sizes so the background characters can all get even some light personality or moments That's true. If they killed off cats like they did back then, then it wouldn't be an issue lol, but they're afraid to let go of the older characters, and at the same time, they're aging up the newer characters super quick and pairing them off which adds even MORE cats to the clans. absolutely hilarious that firestar, arguably the most iconic warriors character, only had 2 kits, and now we have characters having multiple litters and 6+ kits
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Post by Chicken on Sept 22, 2021 21:32:41 GMT -5
That's true. If they killed off cats like they did back then, then it wouldn't be an issue lol, but they're afraid to let go of the older characters, and at the same time, they're aging up the newer characters super quick and pairing them off which adds even MORE cats to the clans. absolutely hilarious that firestar, arguably the most iconic warriors character, only had 2 kits, and now we have characters having multiple litters and 6+ kits Right? XD I'm also really surprised they never gave him a son either as well. I'm also surprised Breezepelt hasn't had any sons, but I bet StarClan was like, "Do we REALLY want to deal with having ANOTHER Crowfeather-esque character?" XD
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#04F9B3
StarClan leader
Name Colour
Featherstar
She could now see that destiny alone could not save RiverClan. - Frostpaw, Wind
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Post by Featherstar on Sept 23, 2021 12:55:01 GMT -5
Lost Stars: The first Broken Code book is a good book, something new to see in a soon to be crazy arc. Shadowpaw gets a codebreaker vision and Bramblestar dies and somehow comes back. The Clans discover StarClan is silent.
The Silent Thaw: The second book in The Broken Code is when the Clans begin to figure out the cat who came back to Bramblestar's body was not Bramblestar, but an impostor.
Veil Of Shadows: The third book in The Broken Code is when a group of rebels start to rise to try to take out the impostor. Squirrelflight finally figures out who the impostor is.
Darkness Within: The fourth book in The Broken Code is about the Clans trying to find Bramblestar's spirit and figuring out what to do with the impostor. A surprising event happens at the end.
The Place of No Stars: The fifth book in The Broken Code is about finally getting Bramblestar back and rescuing Squirrelflight from the Dark Forest.
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Post by Goldy from Dappleclan on Sept 23, 2021 14:36:05 GMT -5
Yeah this whole thing is just a disaster that's difficult to care about. I haven't bought any of the TBC books - I just read online free PDFs because there's zero point in wasting money on this garbage
I mostly read it now to keep up to date with the fandom
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Asexual
#07B04C
star_black.png
Name Colour
Ṣanɗypaw™
The Shiny User
🎵Guess that's just the way it goes, easy come, easy go🎵
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Post by Ṣanɗypaw™ on Sept 23, 2021 19:10:39 GMT -5
Coming from someone who's actually read the arc, I think it's pretty good. Ashfur doesn't really seem like a generic villain to me as none of the other villains we've had so far have been driven by some insane incel vengeance.
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#04F9B3
StarClan leader
Name Colour
Featherstar
She could now see that destiny alone could not save RiverClan. - Frostpaw, Wind
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Post by Featherstar on Sept 23, 2021 19:22:26 GMT -5
Speaking of TBC, there is this quote for the sixth book in The Broken Code
There is the quote for A Light In The Mist that's up on the offical website.
"I don't deserve a place in StarClan. I never will. But I owe them, and the living Clans, Something."
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Post by kells on Sept 23, 2021 19:40:40 GMT -5
Personally, I don't like the TBC arc. The premise is really good and nails the creepy atmosphere and we get to see a mature dynamic in a forbidden relationship, but the errors spoil the enjoyment for me. Ashfur... isn't Tigerstar 2.0, but his needlessly aggressive behavior and manipulation of Shadowsight doesn't seem like a proper characterization of him. Paired with the wild plot, it really feels like a fanfiction. There's been several spelling errors, and another nasty issue in The Silent Thaw(?) where Squirrelflight mentions Tigerheartstar being too young to remember the war in The Last Hope. That one is probably the worst of the errors. Also, the characters feel like rehashes of past protagonists, save for Rootspring. That's my take on it.
But honestly, it's probably a flip of a coin on whether you like the arc or not. The fandom seems pretty split on hating/loving it. There's tons like me who hate the arc, and others who love it. I honestly suggest giving the books a read, you might even like it yourself
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Post by ✲ριкαƒυєу✲ on Sept 23, 2021 21:07:29 GMT -5
Personally I don't care for it. I read it to keep up with the series. But I can't wait for this one to end. So tired of it.
Haven't even finished TPONS because this arc sucks so bad to me
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Post by Riverdapple on Sept 24, 2021 7:34:03 GMT -5
I have yet to catch up, I only read the first four books so far and it was months ago so my memory is getting hazy, but I'm mixed on TBC. Neutral, really. Warriors is a weird sort of comfort series for me, it's like junk food. I wouldn't say that it's the greatest quality, but I love the concept for the world it sets up and I can get invested in a story without needing to think too deeply about it if I don't want to. Especially good to return to when I'm between interests and need something to fill the void or don't have the energy to invest in something bigger. And don't get me wrong, I love analyzing certain media and picking things apart. Warriors just... isn't the place for that for me anymore. If TBC had come out a decade ago I think it would bother me so, so much. But as it is now, I'm just content to see what these silly old cats are up to now, sit back, and enjoy the memes and beautiful artwork fans create.
That said, I understand other people's distaste for it, and if Warriors WAS better written, of course I sure would appreciate it. But it's not something I expect. Goodness knows the series has been riddled with errors and inconsistencies since forever. I have plenty of other interests to look to for depth and good characterization, I suppose.
(Though RIP to every somewhat haughty or snippy character always becoming super unpleasant and angry with time.)
It is a bit odd to say that Ashfur feels like a generic "take over the world" villain though, considering that's literally what the OG villain Tigerstar was, haha~
(Also forgive me if I use the forums incorrectly, apparently I haven't logged on in 5 years skdjskdk.) (Edit: oops this ended up longer than I intended lol)
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