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Post by Chicken on Sept 22, 2021 14:11:42 GMT -5
My friend and I were discussing this, and they brought up a good question about if mating with kittypets, loners, and rogues was against the code, and my initial reaction was to say no, since it's not really ever done, but then, I remembered, that it has been done. Featherstorm, everyone were jerks to Ragged and Scorch, because they believed that their father was a kittypet, and Featherstorm wasn't ever doled out any punishment. I know that it could have been the case of who the leader was at the time, but there's also the case, that early on in the series, it said that cats didn't have to say who the father was, but this was later kind of retconned with Mapleshade's Vengeance, and I know that was probably for sympathy reasons, but later on in Bluestar's Prophecy I think they question who the father of her kits were, and Thrushpelt covers for her. I think it could be okay, but it's highly frowned upon, because clan cats see outsider cats are "weaker" or "lesser than" them, and they probably feel like outside blood dilutes their power a bit, kind of like olden day royalty line of thinking or something. Thoughts?
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Post by Moonblazer on Sept 22, 2021 14:14:27 GMT -5
Tbh I kind of wonder if the Clans should actually somewhat accept this during times of extreme need of fresh blood. Like, I know cats don’t care, but being able to have kits with Loners and Kittypets so long as the kits stay in the Clan is far less of a risk than interclan mingling. Aka there’s not a real loyalty issue involved here.
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Post by Chicken on Sept 22, 2021 14:38:42 GMT -5
Tbh I kind of wonder if the Clans should actually somewhat accept this during times of extreme need of fresh blood. Like, I know cats don’t care, but being able to have kits with Loners and Kittypets so long as the kits stay in the Clan is far less of a risk than interclan mingling. Aka there’s not a real loyalty issue involved here. I agree, honestly, I think it should be allowed and not be frowned upon, as long as the cat doesn't form a relationship with the outside cat, and if they do, then the outsider should either join the clan, or the clan cat should leave to join them, there should be no back and forth, because that just creates conflict.
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Post by Skypaw13 on Sept 22, 2021 21:37:44 GMT -5
Honestly, I thought most of the series 1 cats were of non-Clan descent. Maybe not kittypets because the Code expressly outlaws kittypet life, resulting in a lot of prejudice, but rogues/loners and traveling groups for sure. (I can go more into this headcanon if you want)
Though I'm one of those people that argues inter-Clan relationships aren't actually forbidden, so take that as you will.
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Post by Chicken on Sept 22, 2021 21:41:03 GMT -5
Honestly, I thought most of the series 1 cats were of non-Clan descent. Maybe not kittypets because the Code expressly outlaws kittypet life, resulting in a lot of prejudice, but rogues/loners and traveling groups for sure. (I can go more into this headcanon if you want) Though I'm one of those people that argues inter-Clan relationships aren't actually forbidden, so take that as you will. Sure, if you don't mind sharing your headcanon, I think it could be interesting to read about! Is it because of how weirdly written the code is? Like, the loophole?
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Post by Skypaw13 on Sept 22, 2021 21:57:08 GMT -5
Honestly, I thought most of the series 1 cats were of non-Clan descent. Maybe not kittypets because the Code expressly outlaws kittypet life, resulting in a lot of prejudice, but rogues/loners and traveling groups for sure. (I can go more into this headcanon if you want) Though I'm one of those people that argues inter-Clan relationships aren't actually forbidden, so take that as you will. Sure, if you don't mind sharing your headcanon, I think it could be interesting to read about! Is it because of how weirdly written the code is? Like, the loophole? It's not like a super detailed headcanon, I just noticed that the pre-exodus Clans were a lot looser with the family ties-- it was common for cats to not know their fathers and not be particularly close with their mothers. My headcanon is that the Great Journey brought cats closer together emotionally, and the values that created didn't go away after the journey, so the Clans have much stronger family values at the Lake than they did at the Forest. Meaning that back in the old Forest, it was taboo to talk about but technically okay to mate with someone outside your Clan, as long as it didn't affect your loyalty. Which could actually be pretty easy, since back then your family wasn't a strong value. For example, Oakheart had a mate outside RiverClan but still stayed loyal. If strong connections with family aren't a value in your Clan, it's much easier to stay loyal while having mates outside the Clan. I think this was a common enough occurrence to eventually give rise to the queen's rule (a queen doesn't have to reveal the father of her children). With the move to the Lake came much stronger family ties, and now it's far too easy to compromise your loyalty by having a mate outside the Clan, since it's more likely you'll abandon your Clan for them.
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Post by Chicken on Sept 22, 2021 22:09:57 GMT -5
Sure, if you don't mind sharing your headcanon, I think it could be interesting to read about! Is it because of how weirdly written the code is? Like, the loophole? It's not like a super detailed headcanon, I just noticed that the pre-exodus Clans were a lot looser with the family ties-- it was common for cats to not know their fathers and not be particularly close with their mothers. My headcanon is that the Great Journey brought cats closer together emotionally, and the values that created didn't go away after the journey, so the Clans have much stronger family values at the Lake than they did at the Forest. Meaning that back in the old Forest, it was taboo to talk about but technically okay to mate with someone outside your Clan, as long as it didn't affect your loyalty. Which could actually be pretty easy, since back then your family wasn't a strong value. For example, Oakheart had a mate outside RiverClan but still stayed loyal. If strong connections with family aren't a value in your Clan, it's much easier to stay loyal while having mates outside the Clan. I think this was a common enough occurrence to eventually give rise to the queen's rule (a queen doesn't have to reveal the father of her children). With the move to the Lake came much stronger family ties, and now it's far too easy to compromise your loyalty by having a mate outside the Clan, since it's more likely you'll abandon your Clan for them. That makes A LOT of sense! I never really thought about it like that before, that's an interesting observation/thought.
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