|
Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Sept 1, 2021 14:08:15 GMT -5
only view this thread if u've read the spoiler thread by rockfoot! i wish leopard's SE was more about her leadership post bloodclan battle instead of what we got...the unnecessary drama and details that dont matter, like frogleap and skyheart's kits who dont even get born by the end of the SE, etc.
we still didnt get a mentor for reedwhisker and no mention of what even happened to him. it's a shame because reed is deputy RIGHT NOW and there's STILL not much on him. even if it is leopard's SE, we should have gotten more on cats like reedwhisker, cats who we see in the background often and dont know anything about.
and i have a huge complaint about emberdawn. if they were named after a blogclanner, then im sorry, and im sure u're a nice person, but u didnt need ur username in an SE if the character named after u doesnt do anything. plus, we're supposed to act like this cat always existed? i hate when prequel material adds stuff that retcons or pretends like "oh no, this always existed, we're just inserting it now for no reason." it's annoying.
overall, the major events i read on the spoiler post sound lame, and i dont think i'll buy this SE afterall.
im just super disappointed. i was actually excited for this SE, but i was disappointed by how little it actually gives me personally. what i wanted out of the SE is obviously going to be different than what the majority wanted, so i might just be in the minority for these opinions.
leopard being shown as a jerk isnt a bad thing, but i wish there was more to it than just copying mudclaw's motivations. i would have preferred leopard's crush on tigerstar be the reason instead.
|
|
|
Post by Saint Ambrosef on Sept 1, 2021 15:36:33 GMT -5
i feel like most of your criticisms of recent books center on on whether your personal headcanons were true or whether you got cool but frankly irrelevant info on unimportant side characters.
|
|
|
Post by plaggy on Sept 1, 2021 15:57:00 GMT -5
"Leopardstar crush to be the reason of her actions" This is what many of the fandom hope it wouldnt be the reason.
Besides this story is about Leopardstar not Reedwhisker. There were going to focus on her not him. Besides this is not the first time characters who didnt appear in the first arc appear in other stories.
|
|
|
Post by Chicken on Sept 1, 2021 16:44:36 GMT -5
I agree with some parts of your post, I wish that it would have shown more of her leadership after the battle, I'm even more curious now to know why she sided with Onestar to attack innocent ThunderClan cats in their home, but I guess we'll never know.
I was also disappointed that we didn't see who Reedwhisker's mentor was, but whoever they are, they must have done a terrible job since Reedwhisker was an apprentice for 36 moons or something.
As for Emberdawn, I don't mind that they were added in there for this SE, just another cat to help fill up the gaps on the family trees.
|
|
|
Post by *Faith* on Sept 1, 2021 17:41:53 GMT -5
I was also disappointed that we didn't see who Reedwhisker's mentor was, but whoever they are, they must have done a terrible job since Reedwhisker was an apprentice for 36 moons or something.
At least we got a mentor for Pikepaw, who ended up being Loudbelly. I do wish we got one for Primrosepaw and Reedwhisker too, though. Frogleap as well, but I feel like it might've been Timberfur.
|
|
|
Post by Chicken on Sept 1, 2021 17:49:53 GMT -5
I was also disappointed that we didn't see who Reedwhisker's mentor was, but whoever they are, they must have done a terrible job since Reedwhisker was an apprentice for 36 moons or something.
At least we got a mentor for Pikepaw, who ended up being Loudbelly. I do wish we got one for Primrosepaw and Reedwhisker too, though. Frogleap as well, but I feel like it might've been Timberfur. That's true. Littermates have often mentored together in the past, so I wonder if Sedgecreek and Reedtail could have been their mentors?
|
|
|
Post by Skypaw13 on Sept 1, 2021 18:54:55 GMT -5
I haven't read the book itself and probably won't, but I did read all the way through the spoiler thread. The hard part about doing critique that way is that it's unclear what came from the book itself and what came from Rockfoot consolidating information, especially since by their own admission, the chapters are incredibly dense and sometimes difficult to consolidate. I will say that I liked the book right up until the TigerClan business. Up to that point we'd gotten a consistent (and good) portrayal of Leopardstar as a morally grey character-- someone who has fundamentally good ideals, but the actions taken to achieve said ideal are horrible. Her actions get more and more terrible as the book progresses, and I really liked that whole slow descent into evil plot, it was done well. Then the TigerClan thing happened and they fumbled it. HARD. Leopardstar is suddenly no longer a morally grey character who is killing Stonefur because she genuinely believes it's better for the Clan-- she's doing it because she's a good cat and Tigerstar just threatened her into obedience. Not only is this less interesting, but it's not consistent with the character they'd built for Leopardstar the entire book.
The way her arc was going, I expected her to be so obsessed with her ideal and so far down into her hole of terrible actions by the time Tigerstar came around that she would be easily persuaded into imprisoning the half-Clan cats-- no threats to her life or job required.
I think they showed Tigerstar's unhinged state far too quickly. He should have kept up the smooth talking right up until the execution, and only once Stonefur is dead would Leopardstar realize that she was wrong. As is, she realizes she's made a mistake before Stonefur dies, and ironically, that makes her worse for not saving him.
It was just a massive disappointment, honestly. The book was going so well up to that point. I genuinely loved reading about her descent. But at the most important part of the story, her worst action? They just abandon her arc entirely when they get there, and turn her into yet another sad victim of Tigerstar's threats-- she even says this when talking to Mistyfoot later, which Misty raises an eyebrow at (rightfully so).
If you write a morally grey character, you have to commit. That's the lesson here. Again, I haven't read the book, so perhaps the portrayal is more nuanced. Or maybe I'm totally wrong and the only reason I got this impression was Rockfoot trying to summarize as succinctly as possible. I don't know. I just know that from the spoiler thread, I was disappointed in the last few chapters.
|
|
|
Post by vectoring34 on Sept 1, 2021 19:41:22 GMT -5
The book was called Leopardstar's Honor, not Reedwhisker's Hidden Character. Not exactly surprising that he's irrelevant.
To be fair, the prologue version of the events is very much in-line with what you describe where Leopardstar is still toeing the party line even as Stonefur is being killed.
|
|
|
Post by Skypaw13 on Sept 1, 2021 19:51:54 GMT -5
The book was called Leopardstar's Honor, not Reedwhisker's Hidden Character. Not exactly surprising that he's irrelevant. To be fair, the prologue version of the events is very much in-line with what you describe where Leopardstar is still toeing the party line even as Stonefur is being killed. Yeah, I remember the prologue being okay, with Leopardstar being put off by what was happening, but still not really fighting against it. But in Chapter 31, her internal monologue is very not okay with what's happening, but she still doesn't do anything, and that seemed inconsistent with her character to me.
|
|
|
Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Sept 1, 2021 20:16:46 GMT -5
vectoring34 idk why people keep harping on this one thing i said. SE's usually give info on background characters all the time, and since reed is deputy right now, why not give us a tiny tidbit? how hard would it have been to just mention "reedpaw was seen with his mentor [name]" or something SMALL like that? im not asking for a big scene with reedpaw, jeez.
|
|
|
Post by sylveon on Sept 1, 2021 20:33:01 GMT -5
I feel like they spent too much time on things that didn't matter. I love that we got a lot of development for Leopardfur and other background characters (it almost reminded me of when we had a good sense of every character, but not quite.) we skipped over so many things that the majority of people actually wanted to see and caused lots of plot holes (like always!) The prologue being Stonefur's death makes no sense since it's repeated in later chapters. They could have switched it out for either Mudfur having the dream about her destiny or almost anything else. If we didn't see Stonefur's death in the SE it would have fit, but meh.
We didn't see Stonekit and Mistykit being brought to RiverClan, which is even more confusing because she somehow thought Graypool was their mother when we know she had kits who died not long before. Iirc it was a big deal of Graypool insisting to foster a 'rogue's' kits. Oakheart's death was also confusing since we were told RiverClan knew he had died in a rockslide.
Don't get me wrong, I loved seeing her relationship with Frogleap and her perspective during TigerClan, but I wanted so much more. For all the time skips, I wanted to see her during the great journey and why she backed Onestar in eclipse. There was just sooo much more potential.
|
|
|
Post by vectoring34 on Sept 1, 2021 20:37:40 GMT -5
Yeah, going off of Rockfoot's summary and their posted pages of Tigerstar's death, this book does seem to fall into the trap of reiterating too many things word for word and adding very little. Did we really need to hear Firestar's speech word for word when all it does is have Leopardstar clutching pearls? The scene could have been truncated down a lot and still be fine.
|
|
|
Post by Rainsplash on Sept 9, 2021 20:48:32 GMT -5
I'm just so confused about Redtail, Oakheart, and MistyStoneGrayOak. I think they mess those three up every time it's mentioned
|
|
Lesbian
“Dude you have over 50k posts? Ngl that’s kind of cringe.”
sorethroat
Part-time lurker.
|
Post by sorethroat on Sept 9, 2021 21:26:10 GMT -5
only view this thread if u've read the spoiler thread by rockfoot! and i have a huge complaint about emberdawn. if they were named after a blogclanner, then im sorry, and im sure u're a nice person, but u didnt need ur username in an SE if the character named after u doesnt do anything.
To be fair, that’s probably the best course of action because then people would complain that the character is a “Mary Sue”.
|
|
|
Post by rabbit on Sept 10, 2021 14:39:32 GMT -5
I am currently reading it (on chapter 13), and the one thing I hate about extra content in warriors is how poorly edited it usually is. When Nightpelt is at the gathering asking to split WindClan territory, Mudfur is seen sitting next to Spottedleaf. At the gathering were Brokenstar threatens the clans, there is a random black she-cat among ThunderClan that says they should wait for WindClan before starting the gathering, but we know there are no black she-cats in ThunderClan at this time. Unless Leopardfur can't recognize one of her clanmates or a ShadowClan warrior didn't hear the news that her own clan drove out WindClan. Then there is the whole ThunderClan killed Oakheart despite the fact in the original series reveals that Oakheart was never murdered and died by accident. Fireheart even sneaks onto RiverClan territory to ask Mistyfoot, and she confirms it that RiverClan never believed Oakheart was murdered. I was curious how they would handle RiverClan's perspective on Oakheart's death, but nope, they are just continuing with the Redtail novella mess-up.
|
|
|
Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Sept 10, 2021 15:25:02 GMT -5
Yeah, going off of Rockfoot's summary and their posted pages of Tigerstar's death, this book does seem to fall into the trap of reiterating too many things word for word and adding very little. Did we really need to hear Firestar's speech word for word when all it does is have Leopardstar clutching pearls? The scene could have been truncated down a lot and still be fine. so it's like the warriors equivalent to midnight sun? (twilight from edward's POV. it doesnt add anything really interesting, and also goes word for word on multiple same-scenes from twilight which renders the whole edward POV useless)
|
|
|
Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Sept 10, 2021 15:25:37 GMT -5
I am currently reading it (on chapter 13), and the one thing I hate about extra content in warriors is how poorly edited it usually is. When Nightpelt is at the gathering asking to split WindClan territory, Mudfur is seen sitting next to Spottedleaf. At the gathering were Brokenstar threatens the clans, there is a random black she-cat among ThunderClan that says they should wait for WindClan before starting the gathering, but we know there are no black she-cats in ThunderClan at this time. Unless Leopardfur can't recognize one of her clanmates or a ShadowClan warrior didn't hear the news that her own clan drove out WindClan. Then there is the whole ThunderClan killed Oakheart despite the fact in the original series reveals that Oakheart was never murdered and died by accident. Fireheart even sneaks onto RiverClan territory to ask Mistyfoot, and she confirms it that RiverClan never believed Oakheart was murdered. I was curious how they would handle RiverClan's perspective on Oakheart's death, but nope, they are just continuing with the Redtail novella mess-up. this is why im starting to dislike prequel material....too many retcons, backpedaling, and too many inconsistencies....they can't keep the lore and events straight so why even bother lol
|
|
|
Post by wheeledwarrior on Sept 11, 2021 13:20:08 GMT -5
I am currently reading it (on chapter 13), and the one thing I hate about extra content in warriors is how poorly edited it usually is. When Nightpelt is at the gathering asking to split WindClan territory, Mudfur is seen sitting next to Spottedleaf. At the gathering were Brokenstar threatens the clans, there is a random black she-cat among ThunderClan that says they should wait for WindClan before starting the gathering, but we know there are no black she-cats in ThunderClan at this time. Unless Leopardfur can't recognize one of her clanmates or a ShadowClan warrior didn't hear the news that her own clan drove out WindClan. Then there is the whole ThunderClan killed Oakheart despite the fact in the original series reveals that Oakheart was never murdered and died by accident. Fireheart even sneaks onto RiverClan territory to ask Mistyfoot, and she confirms it that RiverClan never believed Oakheart was murdered. I was curious how they would handle RiverClan's perspective on Oakheart's death, but nope, they are just continuing with the Redtail novella mess-up. this is why im starting to dislike prequel material....too many retcons, backpedaling, and too many inconsistencies....they can't keep the lore and events straight so why even bother lol I thought it was mentioned that they were using their original timeline, and Leopardstar’s grudge is so strong that she just believes that the battle against TC is the latter’s fault anyway. I believed it was confirmed to be there in the later chapters, but I don’t remember where. And I’m one of the ones who wanted to see more of her past. Well I do feel like it gives somewhat have a good idea of who she was before all this, I feel like the book spends too much time going through information we already know (there’s barely any time devoted to her being an apprentice or a kit, even though other characters got a lot more and I wanted to see how that perspective changed and lead to things in the present). Even though it was interesting seeing the events from her perspective. I also wanted to see more of the new events, such as rekindling her relationship with Mistyfoot, how she felt about Hawkfrost and Mothwing, and her sickness and death. Not to mention if there was anyone that would need a trial to judge where they should go after they die, it would be her. I can’t imagine Starclan would let her off lightly after the whole Tigerclan incident, especially because it was showing they were harsh with Blackfoot even though they let him get his leader name and lives (part of me wonders what would happened if he had declined, especially since they gave him that choice). It’s like they had more story they could’ve told her or wanted to talk, but just ran out of space. Especially with all the large time skips. Which is odd considering it’s a super edition, but I suppose that’s a problem when the character lives for so long and does so much, even in the background.
|
|
|
Post by Numquam on Sept 11, 2021 13:48:05 GMT -5
My biggest gripe, as others have mentioned, is that a lot of the scenes were just scenes that we've seen in TPB, but just in Leopardstar's POV. I would've been fine with some of them being brought up again, but I don't really see why we had to revisit these scenes to the extent/detail that we did. I'm also a bit confused why they reused the prologue for a later chapter in the book?
I also wish we would've seen more beyond the first arc. I would've loved to see her relationship with Hawkfrost.
This is also just a personal preference - but I do prefer when SE's are about entirely new plots and events that are introduced in that SE, events that we didn't know were happening during the main books. I liked Leopardstar's Honour, but I would've liked to see more than just revisted plots in her POV.
|
|
|
Post by rabbit on Sept 11, 2021 14:40:21 GMT -5
I am currently reading it (on chapter 13), and the one thing I hate about extra content in warriors is how poorly edited it usually is. When Nightpelt is at the gathering asking to split WindClan territory, Mudfur is seen sitting next to Spottedleaf. At the gathering were Brokenstar threatens the clans, there is a random black she-cat among ThunderClan that says they should wait for WindClan before starting the gathering, but we know there are no black she-cats in ThunderClan at this time. Unless Leopardfur can't recognize one of her clanmates or a ShadowClan warrior didn't hear the news that her own clan drove out WindClan. Then there is the whole ThunderClan killed Oakheart despite the fact in the original series reveals that Oakheart was never murdered and died by accident. Fireheart even sneaks onto RiverClan territory to ask Mistyfoot, and she confirms it that RiverClan never believed Oakheart was murdered. I was curious how they would handle RiverClan's perspective on Oakheart's death, but nope, they are just continuing with the Redtail novella mess-up. this is why im starting to dislike prequel material....too many retcons, backpedaling, and too many inconsistencies....they can't keep the lore and events straight so why even bother lol I just finished reading it, and yeah I don't think buying this book is worth it. It's like nobody bothered to read to last half of the book to make sure it made sense before making it the final cut of the book. Leopardstar notices Mistyfoot's kits (Primrosekit and Pikekit in this scene) will be ready to be apprentices soon as she notices how big they are to Featherkit and Stormkit. Tigerstar visits on the same day, telling Leopardstar they should join as one clan, but Leopardstar declines. The next day, Leopardstar makes Featherkit and Stormkit apprentices. Boulder and Jaggedtooth are at the ceremony for some reason never explained. Also, all of Mistyfoot's kits are magically apprentices now (Primrosepaw, Pikepaw, and Reedpaw). Shortly having the ceremony, Leopardstar overhears Mistyfoot and Stonefur secretly talking about what they should do with the knowledge that Bluestar is their mother. This how Leopardstar finds out they are half-Clan. Leopardstar sneaks away without confronting them. Also, Leopardstar thought they were Graypool and Rippleclaw's kits, despite knowing that all of their kits died... The next chapter, Leopardstar joins TigerClan. The chapter after that, Jaggedtooth and Boulder are in RiverClan camp and it is explained that this change is so RiverClan can acclimate into TigerClan. Featherkit and Stormkit are suddenly kits again. Tigerstar advises Leopardstar to not let Mistyfoot or Stonefur mentor them when they become apprentices because they are half-Clan warriors. Apparently Misty and Stone told their Clan they were half-Clan. This is done off-screen. Then, there is the scene were Misty/Stone/Storm/Feather become prisoners. Tigerstar orders them to be dragged out of their nests and thrown into a prison while Leopardstar is sleeping. Leopardstar, woken up, checks out to see what is going on. This is when the Stonefur's death scene plays out. Leopardstar comments on the prisoners bedraggled, weakened appearance by thinking that she had ordered the prisoners to be fed and Tigerstar must have countermanded her orders. But they literally just became prisoners that day... Leopardstar is implying they have been prisoners for days. Then the comic exclusive. It takes place during Dawn, when Mistyfoot was taken by Twolegs. Leopardstar tries to comfort Reedpaw that they are trying their best to find Mistyfoot. It is implied that Reedpaw is Mistyfoot's son. Reedpaw became an apprentice the same time as Brambleclaw and before Hawkfrost and Mothwing. He shouldn't look so young and be an apprentice still. Unless this is a second Reedpaw, which is just weird. All in all, it's just a mess and it looks like nobody really cared about this book when it was being written.
|
|
|
Post by Chicken on Sept 11, 2021 15:12:10 GMT -5
rabbitPlease tell me that Reedfeather was a mistype. Because if Leopardstar thought that Reedfeather and Graypool were the parents of some kits then well uhhh. That's even more awkward than Bramblestar shipping Berrynose and Rosepetal in whatever book that was, I think Bramblestar's Storm.
|
|
|
Post by rabbit on Sept 11, 2021 15:18:28 GMT -5
rabbit Please tell me that Reedfeather was a mistype. Because if Leopardstar thought that Reedfeather and Graypool were the parents of some kits then well uhhh. That's even more awkward than Bramblestar shipping Berrynose and Rosepetal in whatever book that was, I think Bramblestar's Storm. Oops, the book says that Rippleclaw is her mate not Reedfeather.
|
|
|
Post by Chicken on Sept 11, 2021 15:22:13 GMT -5
rabbit Please tell me that Reedfeather was a mistype. Because if Leopardstar thought that Reedfeather and Graypool were the parents of some kits then well uhhh. That's even more awkward than Bramblestar shipping Berrynose and Rosepetal in whatever book that was, I think Bramblestar's Storm. Oops, the book says that Rippleclaw is her mate not Reedfeather. Oh thank god! I got worried there for a moment, having Whitestorm as both a kit and a warrior in the allegiances was bad enough
|
|
|
Post by Goldy from Dappleclan on Sept 13, 2021 4:51:14 GMT -5
Pretty disappointed that everyone Leopardstar would get close to would just end up dying.
In fact because of all the time skips it felt like cats were dying way too often.
|
|
|
Post by Rainsplash on Sept 13, 2021 7:31:31 GMT -5
Prequels all have irritating inconsistencies but I really love them because I love prequels in general. I have no idea why we had to watch every detail (which would simply add to the very long list of Mistakes of the Editors) which we already saw in TPB. I don't really mind we didn't see PoT Leopardstar or anything, I actually really enjoyed Leopardstar's life and early thoughts, but really, aren't there any other more interesting scenes?
One tiny note, while I love Frogleap died I also wish he didn't die because I'm really fond of FrogMoss now and I'd hate for anyone else to be Willowshine's father.
|
|