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Post by 🔥Firestar🔥 on Aug 26, 2021 15:31:05 GMT -5
We've all talked about Squirrelflight a lot and how bad/good as a mate she is, but i'm wondering, what are your opinions on how he treats her? Do you think he's fair, caring, and trustworthy?
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Aug 26, 2021 15:32:30 GMT -5
they were NEVER good together. both of them sucked in the relationship and i hate the books for forcing them back together time and time again. i wish they'd just let them stay broken up after OotS!
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Post by Chicken on Aug 26, 2021 15:45:25 GMT -5
I think they both have the same problem in their relationship, as they both look after their own self interests first. So no, I don't think he's a very good mate. I don't understand why this series keeps hyping them up as this epic power couple when they aren't.
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Post by Skypaw13 on Aug 26, 2021 17:30:24 GMT -5
*grabs popcorn and 3D glasses*
This ought to go well.
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Post by Aqua on Aug 26, 2021 17:42:59 GMT -5
How about how Squirrelflight treats HIM? They're both terrible to EACH OTHER. Squirrelflight is dishonest, always starts arguments, and does things behind Bramblestar's back. She has hurt his trust and feelings multiple times, lying to him about his own kits because she couldn't trust him.
I am so tired of people calling Bramblestar a horrible mate. What about Squirrelflight? It's not like she was any better as a mate either. She was terrible to him, too. They're both horrible to each other, and neither cat is innocent. They should have stayed broken up after Po3 and remained friends. Both cats worked better and respected one another better that way.
Honestly, I see more people bashing on Bramblestar being a horrible character more than Squirrelflight. Everything she does that hurts her mate, it's the right thing to do. But when Bramblestar is pissed at her, people think he's cruel. I'm just kind of tired of it, lol. But that's just me.
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Aug 26, 2021 17:45:01 GMT -5
Absolutely not. These two should've never gotten together in the first place.
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Aug 26, 2021 18:02:02 GMT -5
How about how Squirrelflight treats HIM? They're both terrible to EACH OTHER. Squirrelflight is dishonest, always starts arguments, and does things behind Bramblestar's back. She has hurt his trust and feelings multiple times, lying to him about his own kits because she couldn't trust him. I am so tired of people calling Bramblestar a horrible mate. What about Squirrelflight? It's not like she was any better as a mate either. She was terrible to him, too. They're both horrible to each other, and neither cat is innocent. They should have stayed broken up after Po3 and remained friends. Both cats worked better and respected one another better that way. Honestly, I see more people bashing on Bramblestar being a horrible character more than Squirrelflight. Everything she does that hurts her mate, it's the right thing to do. But when Bramblestar is pissed at her, people think he's cruel. I'm just kind of tired of it, lol. But that's just me. Except 1) this is about how Bramblestar treats Squirrelflight, not the other way around. That's basically the point of this thread if you read the first post. and 2) regardless of Squirrelflight's own behavior, this doesn't absolve Bramblestar of his own terribleness. Furthermore, Squirrelflight fans have acknowledged her behavior before. Yes, she was wrong for lying and asking her daughter to lie, and going behind his back. And? I've yet to see a Squirrelflight fan on here who actually thinks she was justified in doing these things; or if they do, it's a minority. I've personally seen more people hate on Squirrelflight than not, though it's probably just that people are more vocal about it (the vocality of something isn't necessarily reflective of a general opinion). And even then, none of this changes the fact that Bramblestar hasn't been any better, either. But yes, they should've just stayed friends.
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Post by Aqua on Aug 26, 2021 18:17:35 GMT -5
How about how Squirrelflight treats HIM? They're both terrible to EACH OTHER. Squirrelflight is dishonest, always starts arguments, and does things behind Bramblestar's back. She has hurt his trust and feelings multiple times, lying to him about his own kits because she couldn't trust him. I am so tired of people calling Bramblestar a horrible mate. What about Squirrelflight? It's not like she was any better as a mate either. She was terrible to him, too. They're both horrible to each other, and neither cat is innocent. They should have stayed broken up after Po3 and remained friends. Both cats worked better and respected one another better that way. Honestly, I see more people bashing on Bramblestar being a horrible character more than Squirrelflight. Everything she does that hurts her mate, it's the right thing to do. But when Bramblestar is pissed at her, people think he's cruel. I'm just kind of tired of it, lol. But that's just me. Except 1) this is about how Bramblestar treats Squirrelflight, not the other way around. That's basically the point of this thread if you read the first post. and 2) regardless of Squirrelflight's own behavior, this doesn't absolve Bramblestar of his own terribleness. Furthermore, Squirrelflight fans have acknowledged her behavior before. Yes, she was wrong for lying and asking her daughter to lie, and going behind his back. And? I've yet to see a Squirrelflight fan on here who actually thinks she was justified in doing these things; or if they do, it's a minority. I've personally seen more people hate on Squirrelflight than not, though it's probably just that people are more vocal about it (the vocality of something isn't necessarily reflective of a general opinion). And even then, none of this changes the fact that Bramblestar hasn't been any better, either. But yes, they should've just stayed friends. I read it just fine, thank you. That's your opinion; this is mine. We'll have to agree to disagree.
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Asexual
#07B04C
star_black.png
Name Colour
Ṣanɗypaw™
The Shiny User
🎵Guess that's just the way it goes, easy come, easy go🎵
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Post by Ṣanɗypaw™ on Aug 26, 2021 18:21:34 GMT -5
No lol. They're terrible for each other (and the whataboutism is strong today, I see.)
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Aug 26, 2021 18:53:35 GMT -5
i see where Aqua is coming from though. if we made a thread to criticize squirrelflight, people will just get annoyed and say "why are we making threads like this again" when people will have no problem with crapping on bramblestar instead...this is why i liked aqua's comment. more people should talk about squirrelflight's awfulness as well. not just bramble's. both of them. regardless of bramble's behavior, this also doesnt dissolve SQUIRRELFLIGHT of her terrible behavior. the argument can be made both ways, but we can just agree to disagree since this isn't what the thread is about then. sorry, but i wanted to say it.
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Post by *Ottersplash* on Aug 26, 2021 19:19:15 GMT -5
i see where Aqua is coming from though. if we made a thread to criticize squirrelflight, people will just get annoyed and say "why are we making threads like this again" when people will have no problem with crapping on bramblestar instead...this is why i liked aqua's comment. more people should talk about squirrelflight's awfulness as well. not just bramble's. both of them. regardless of bramble's behavior, this also doesnt dissolve SQUIRRELFLIGHT of her terrible behavior. the argument can be made both ways, but we can just agree to disagree since this isn't what the thread is about then. sorry, but i wanted to say it. But people have made threads about Squirrelflight and whether she was right or wrong. I understand why Cinder is agitated. It's like going on a character positivity thread and then starting to talk poorly of them. It's not what the thread is about.
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Post by rabbit on Aug 26, 2021 19:32:13 GMT -5
I hate this ship, just like I hate FireSand. They just constantly bicker with each other. I hate BrambleSquirrel extra because they are a leader and deputy combo, which just guarantees toxicity. I want to say yes to the actual question, but I am biased towards Brambleclaw because I find Squirrelflight just unbearable a lot of times.
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Aug 26, 2021 19:37:59 GMT -5
i see where Aqua is coming from though. if we made a thread to criticize squirrelflight, people will just get annoyed and say "why are we making threads like this again" when people will have no problem with crapping on bramblestar instead...this is why i liked aqua's comment. more people should talk about squirrelflight's awfulness as well. not just bramble's. both of them. regardless of bramble's behavior, this also doesnt dissolve SQUIRRELFLIGHT of her terrible behavior. the argument can be made both ways, but we can just agree to disagree since this isn't what the thread is about then. sorry, but i wanted to say it. But people have made threads about Squirrelflight and whether she was right or wrong. I understand why Cinder is agitated. It's like going on a character positivity thread and then starting to talk poorly of them. It's not what the thread is about. Exactly my point. And I'm sorry if I seem agitated, I really don't mean to, I'm just tired of the whataboutisms in general. This thread is about how Bramblestar treats Squirrelflight, not how Squirrelflight treats him. Obviously how Bramblestar treats her doesn't make Squirrelflight any better (who's worse is a completely different subject altogether). Mistreatment can go both ways and I would never argue otherwise. But that's not what's relevant to this specific thread.
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#add8e6
Name Colour
*Ravenpaw*
Warrior Fanatic
*reads books in a corner*
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Post by *Ravenpaw* on Aug 26, 2021 20:03:36 GMT -5
Honestly? Other than the stupid quarrels back in Starlight to Twilight, and in Squirrelflight's Hope, I think he really is a good mate.
In Squirrelflight's Hope (pg 211), He says Squirrelflight is one of the bravest warriors he knows. He even mourns her after the cave in. That doesn't sound terrible at all.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Aug 26, 2021 21:11:42 GMT -5
I think Bramblestar is fine as a mate, it's just that Squirrelflight isn't the right mate for him. People need to remember that he's a leader first, and a mate second, his clan needs to come first before everything else, that includes Squirrelflight. Does that make him a bad mate? No. It doesn't mean he doesn't care about her any less, but as a leader, him choosing Squirrel over his clan would be biased and come off as selfish. At the same time, because she is also his deputy when she acts out and crosses the line, she needs to be punished just like any other deputy would. She shouldn't get special treatment just because they're mates, and if she hates it so much, being properly criticized for her behavior, then she can step down. Bramblestar chose her because he trusted her. She made it obvious that she cann't be trusted. The only time Squirrelflight was even competent as a deputy was in BrS, after that she constantly lied to Bramblestar, undermined him, and went behind his back, which unsurprisingly caused conflict between them. Even before, their arguments always came from Squirrel acting out against authority and being disrespectful in general. Or just outright being, "It's my way or the high way" toward Bramble with other situations, like him and Hawkfrost. Bramblestar from what I've seen is a cat who has his own inner conflicts to deal with, but also the conflicts of his clan to look over, while Squirrel always added to that load and made things more difficult. Causing them to be divided instead of united as they should be. And Bramblestar is actually a lenient person until he's pushed to the point where he has to put his paw down. Squirrelflight undermining him is one thing, but then her going behind his back and going directly against his orders is another. That is when he's suddenly accused of being "abusive" when it's not even that in the least. I agree with the notion that they should have never gotten back together, and they'd function better if Squirrel just wasn't deputy either. I don't think she the best choice from the start. I think it's because Bramblestar is leader, and his mate (notice how this crap with her only started up after BrS when they got back together) that she thinks she can get away with what she does. When you look at the times when there isn't conflict between them, Bramblestar is seen as a caring mate and amazing father. He seems to ask for the bare minimum from relationships, and trust is obviously something very important to him. But Squirrelflight can't give him that, and honestly, it just feels like they're only together now because of the editors. I think Bramblestar would be a good mate for any character, but Squirrelflight on the other hand, no not really. She'd still use another person as father fodder, and has no qualms with lying to them. She's too independent and should stay single.
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Post by Rainsplash on Aug 27, 2021 4:23:30 GMT -5
I don't think he's an abusive beast some fans think he is. He's not horrible throughout all the books. He's a fine family man in PoT. Sure, he was a bad mate in the later books of TNP and in SqH but otherwise I think he was okay. But of course Bramblestar and Squirrelflight would both be better without each other and remain as friends, maybe.
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Aroace
#ffa100
Name Colour
𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑
Villain Enjoyer
Taking a break from the forums because my cat died. Will probably be back mid to late October.
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Post by 𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑 on Aug 27, 2021 6:51:02 GMT -5
I never liked BrambleSquirrel as a pairing and still wish they hadn't become mates at all or gotten back together again later on. Both are completely incompatible with each other.
We shouldn't argue about who is worse but instead agree on the fact that this ship was never meant to sail.
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Post by downfalls on Aug 27, 2021 8:00:53 GMT -5
never was he a good mate to her. he literally screams at her and pretends to be superior in order to gain power over her. not to mention when she was trying to help the sisters and skyclan he wants to do things his way instead of going her way or at the very least compromising.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Aug 27, 2021 8:41:31 GMT -5
It seems Bramble's actions are also grossly overstated by a majority of the fandom too. (Especially after the Moonkitti video.)
When has Bramble ever "literally screamed" at Squirrelflight. Mistaking scolding and chiding someone for being disrespectful and breaking the code for "literally screaming" is nonsensical.
And leaders are superior to deputies regardless of who they are. At the end of the day Bramblestar was still her leader.
Squirrelflight, imo, handled the Sister's situation quite horribly. Bramblestar was the only one defending SkyClan, and SkyClan themselves had no interest moving yet again. And instead of confiding with Bramblestar in private about suggestions, she underminds him in front of other leaders. And then when she doesn't get her way she directly goes against his orders and where does that get her? Captured, and Leafstar even gets hurt.
Not only was she behaving like an immature apprentice, she also involved their daughter, having her lie to Bramble. And was an embarrassment in general in front of the rest of the clan, she's lucky Bramble didn't demote her there and then.
How do people expect him, as a leader, to react to his deputy disobeying his orders and going behind his back? Do they expect him to be loving and praise her for getting captured? Squirrelflight shouldn't get special treatment, and her being punished for her actions isn't abuse.
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Post by Moonblazer on Aug 27, 2021 9:07:13 GMT -5
I agree on the leader aspect in terms of Bramblestar. He cannot show bias to one cat, even if that cat is his mate. The entire safety of his clan is his literal job. Squirrelflight going behind his back and getting Leafstar and herself captured like an idiot is why he was mad. Him clearly not wanting kits while the Clan is going through alot of bullcrap thanks to Tigerheart and the Sisters is another thing he gets slammed for for literally no valid reason.
Bramblestar is not a bad mate for knowing when to put his paw down as a leader. She is his deputy and a clanmate that he has to take responsibility for when she undermines him in front of the other clans and lies to him as her leader. That mate switch has to come off when it comes to their ranks in the Clan. Bramblestar would treat any other lying and insubordinate Warrior exactly the same. That is not abuse. In the moments that they are mates and only mates, they really were not that bad and they clearly both care for eachother.
An example of these dynamics were Rowanstar and Tawnypelt. When Tawnypelt goes behind his back to ask Thunderclan for help, Rowanstar scolds her, not as her mate, but as her leader, who now has to accept help from Thunderclan and be seen as a weak leader by his clanmates. We all saw how that bullcrap turns out when a leader is undermined in front of other clans. This did not mean that Rowanstar was a bad mate to Tawnypelt. He very clearly loved her and she loved him, but he was her leader, and she made her own decision without his order as leader. Rank is obviously important in this series, and leaders are not bad mates for doing their job as leaders and taking the entire clan into consideration.
Squirrelflight is a grown cat. She can easily step down or speak her mind if she feels disrespected by Bramblestar, and she has always been vocal in the past if something is genuinely bothering her. I kind of hate how alot of the fandom infantilizes her and believes she’d ever cower or allow anyone, especially Bramblestar, to talk to her in a way that she feels disrespected by. I think people confuse a leader having to do their job with a mate being controlling.
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Post by Aqua on Aug 27, 2021 10:16:32 GMT -5
Honestly? Other than the stupid quarrels back in Starlight to Twilight, and in Squirrelflight's Hope, I think he really is a good mate. In Squirrelflight's Hope (pg 211), He says Squirrelflight is one of the bravest warriors he knows. He even mourns her after the cave in. That doesn't sound terrible at all. People mistake his actions toward Squirrelflight all the time. I know they both love each other but he's treated so terribly by her. And anyway, I don't understand why people think Squirrelflight getting demoted is called "controlling"? She's being sneaky behind his back, a clan leader. Correct me if I'm wrong, I really don't remember SqH that well, but I'm pretty sure that she shouldn't get off Scott free just because she thought she was doing the right thing as clan deputy. I understand she was trying to stop a battle and wanted to help SkyClan, but if even Leafstar calls her out for this... Squirrelflight really shouldn't have been deputy in the first place. She wasn't really doing her job. It's like real life. You keep messing up at your job and you get in trouble. A couple of mistakes is fine, but Squirrelflight was doing this all the time in SqH, and put her own clan in danger by going behind his back. She brought ThunderClan involved into stuff that wasn't even any of their business in the first place. Bramblestar is just a clan leader trying to do his job. He even agreed to have kits with her even though it was clear he was overwhelmed and stressed by his status. I don't think Squirrelflight is a terrible cat by any means, but she thinks for herself too much, instead of what others to through, because she believes her actions are "the right thing to do" but the thing is, her actions always hurts many cats, even if she does have good intentions, she causes a lot of damage by doing these things. This is why so many people call her selfish. Maybe selfish isn't the right word, I don't think she is, but I understand why some people do. She just needs to be more logical about these things. Squirrelflight hurts way too many cats for trying to do the right thing. I don't HATE her, but she hasn't changed one bit, and she's honestly just a frustrating character to read about at this point, and her fandom getting pissed when we call her out for her mistakes doesn't help, either. All in all, I agree with your post. I really don't think Bramblestar is that bad to Squirrelflight at all. He's just doing his job as a clan leader.
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Post by Midnightcacoon loves Sunbeam on Aug 27, 2021 10:32:20 GMT -5
Despite my dislike for him, I don't think he's as bad as other's have made him out to be. He makes mistakes but I don't think he's too horrible
Keep in mind I've only read the main series books, novellas, and graphic novels (I have never read a super addition or most of The New Prophecy)
So my opinion is only based on POT-TBC versions of him
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Post by 𝐛𝐥𝟒𝐜𝐤𝐬𝐨𝐥 on Sept 2, 2021 4:02:23 GMT -5
They both sucked with eachother and were never right for each other.
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