Aroace
#ffa100
Name Colour
𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑
Villain Enjoyer
Taking a break from the forums because my cat died. Will probably be back mid to late October.
|
Post by 𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑 on Aug 14, 2021 16:37:19 GMT -5
I'm currently watching the video and will edit my post when I've finished with doing so but what I can already say with certainty (as someone that's still a fan of both Bramblestar and Squirrelflight) is that no one deserves to be harrassed over a bunch of fantasy books about fictional battle cats.
Edit:
I saw the whole thing and can at least fully agree with Moonkitti on the opinion that people can like any character they want, be they heroic, morally grey or full on villainous. Moonkitti's frustration with Bramblestar as an individual has now made itself more understandable to me as it is true to an extent that some of his actions have contradicted itself with previous motivations he had in the past. But still, Bramblestar remains one of my favorite characters, which has a lot to do with nostalgia and because the issues he has with his father Tigerstar I remind me of my own family struggles (of course none of the real people involved are murderous dictators but you get what I mean).
Another Edit: I deleted the previous version of this thread because I'm not sure how to remove something that was put in a spoiler along with the spoiler format.
Final Edit: Oh and by the way, Ashfur sucks, obviously.
|
|
|
Post by Chicken on Aug 14, 2021 17:15:11 GMT -5
I started watching it, and her comments about Bumblestripe make me wonder if she's aware that there are people out there who are terrible at reading others? Like, from what I remember, Dovewing actually never said she didn't want to be with Bumblestripe, and some people are just bad at reading the energies of others, and you have to tell them straight, or they won't know. I'm not blaming Dovewing btw, because I know how hard it is to tell people how you truly feel, especially when you're afraid of hurting them, but it seems like Bumblestripe is expected to be some mind reader or something when he clearly seems to be lacking in the ability to pick up on certain social cues, which is something that actually happens.
I did like her closing message at the end though.
|
|
|
Post by rabbit on Aug 14, 2021 17:27:27 GMT -5
I saw this in my subscription feed and decided not to watch it. I like her little comedy skits, but her analysis stuff is just obnoxious to me. I dislike warriors youtube analysis stuff in general tbh.
|
|
Asexual
#07B04C
star_black.png
Name Colour
Ṣanɗypaw™
The Shiny User
🎵Guess that's just the way it goes, easy come, easy go🎵
|
Post by Ṣanɗypaw™ on Aug 14, 2021 17:41:04 GMT -5
Good video. I'm glad she was more nuanced on the issue of liking vs. disliking Bramblestar. However, I do have one issue, I wish that she didn't talk about using the canon facts in her arguments like it's the truth- because people can have different interpretations of the events that happen in canon, and all interpretations (except the more problematic ones) are equally valid as it's simply a matter of everyone's different perspectives on that canon event. Trying to push your interpretation as the only true one is really rude and narrow-minded. I wish she had clarified on that.
|
|
|
Post by rabbit on Aug 14, 2021 18:10:32 GMT -5
I started watching it, and her comments about Bumblestripe make me wonder if she's aware that there are people out there who are terrible at reading others? Like, from what I remember, Dovewing actually never said she didn't want to be with Bumblestripe, and some people are just bad at reading the energies of others, and you have to tell them straight, or they won't know. I'm not blaming Dovewing btw, because I know how hard it is to tell people how you truly feel, especially when you're afraid of hurting them, but it seems like Bumblestripe is expected to be some mind reader or something when he clearly seems to be lacking in the ability to pick up on certain social cues, which is something that actually happens.
I did like her closing message at the end though. The youtube fandom hatred for Bumblestripe confuses me a lot because weren't Dovewing and Bumblestripe literally mates for a little bit? Dovewing broke it off in the end because she realized her feelings weren't as serious as his. Or am I just remembering this all incorrectly?
|
|
|
Post by Chicken on Aug 14, 2021 18:14:06 GMT -5
I started watching it, and her comments about Bumblestripe make me wonder if she's aware that there are people out there who are terrible at reading others? Like, from what I remember, Dovewing actually never said she didn't want to be with Bumblestripe, and some people are just bad at reading the energies of others, and you have to tell them straight, or they won't know. I'm not blaming Dovewing btw, because I know how hard it is to tell people how you truly feel, especially when you're afraid of hurting them, but it seems like Bumblestripe is expected to be some mind reader or something when he clearly seems to be lacking in the ability to pick up on certain social cues, which is something that actually happens.
I did like her closing message at the end though. The youtube fandom hatred for Bumblestripe confuses me a lot because weren't Dovewing and Bumblestripe literally mates for a little bit? Dovewing broke it off in the end because she realized her feelings weren't as serious as his. Or am I just remembering this all incorrectly? I'm honestly not sure, the only thing I actually remember from the Dovewing and Bumblestripe thing, was when she raced him and Toadstep, I think at separate times? But she won both the races.
|
|
|
Post by Midnightcacoon loves Sunbeam on Aug 14, 2021 18:31:33 GMT -5
I overall liked the video and the art in it! I think she made some good points.
|
|
|
Post by rabbit on Aug 14, 2021 19:03:02 GMT -5
The youtube fandom hatred for Bumblestripe confuses me a lot because weren't Dovewing and Bumblestripe literally mates for a little bit? Dovewing broke it off in the end because she realized her feelings weren't as serious as his. Or am I just remembering this all incorrectly? I'm honestly not sure, the only thing I actually remember from the Dovewing and Bumblestripe thing, was when she raced him and Toadstep, I think at separate times? But she won both the races. Dovewing's Silence and Bramblestar's Storm they get more development. I'm pretty sure they are mates in one of them because there is a scene were Dovewing breaks it off with him.
|
|
|
Post by Skypaw13 on Aug 15, 2021 0:26:37 GMT -5
I know it's not the point of the video, but it's a mighty bold claim to say that she-cats being described as queens when they don't have kits means all she-cats are expected to have kits. That's a logical leap I just can't get behind.
I also don't love the portrayal of Bumblestripe here. It's mightily biased and leaves out the reason Bumblestripe was angry with Dovewing in the first place.
Also, what Sandypaw said. Just because you're using canon evidence to support your claims doesn't mean your claim is the truth. Different interpretations of canon are just as valid as liking characters for various reasons.
Those were the three things that stood out to me, but overall I thought it was a good video. I agree with the premise, and I didn't have much issue with what she said about Ashfur himself.
|
|
|
Post by Moonblazer on Aug 15, 2021 16:14:19 GMT -5
I’m so tired of Bumblestripe being portrayed in such a blatantly biased way while ignoring the many issues that Dovewing brought to the table to instigate his emotions. This is just like the Bramblestar video and I have 0 patience for it. I can’t wait for the flood of factually incorrect rabid twitter and tumblr users that will attack people for liking Bumblestripe or for wanting every cat involved to be held accountable, not just one. I’m so tired.
|
|
|
Post by *Ottersplash* on Aug 15, 2021 17:35:12 GMT -5
I’m so tired of Bumblestripe being portrayed in such a blatantly biased way while ignoring the many issues that Dovewing brought to the table to instigate his emotions. This is just like the Bramblestar video and I have 0 patience for it. I can’t wait for the flood of factually incorrect rabid twitter and tumblr users that will attack people for liking Bumblestripe or for wanting every cat involved to be held accountable, not just one. I’m so tired. Unfortunately, young fans hold her as God. And it's not completely her fault? I know they attacked a sad machine video of BrambleSquirrel for it and it was actually ridiculou
|
|
|
Post by Moonblazer on Aug 15, 2021 22:04:30 GMT -5
I’m so tired of Bumblestripe being portrayed in such a blatantly biased way while ignoring the many issues that Dovewing brought to the table to instigate his emotions. This is just like the Bramblestar video and I have 0 patience for it. I can’t wait for the flood of factually incorrect rabid twitter and tumblr users that will attack people for liking Bumblestripe or for wanting every cat involved to be held accountable, not just one. I’m so tired. Unfortunately, young fans hold her as God. And it's not completely her fault? I know they attacked a sad machine video of BrambleSquirrel for it and it was actually ridiculou I’m not saying she’s out here telling people to attack anyone. But a part of me gets a little ticked when there’s hardly a statement that condemns people who try and use these videos as 100 percent fact or as a reason to insult others. No, you can’t control what your fanbase does, but you can make it clear that you do not support those and that you condemn those who support you that attack others for their likes. I’m glad she had more of a disclaimer now, but these videos are not end-all fact. Like people can’t even make Bramblestar or Bumblestripe content without people attacking it and being nasty and quoting these videos as scripture. It’s just so frustrating.
|
|
|
Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Aug 15, 2021 22:49:49 GMT -5
Unfortunately, young fans hold her as God. And it's not completely her fault? I know they attacked a sad machine video of BrambleSquirrel for it and it was actually ridiculou I’m not saying she’s out here telling people to attack anyone. But a part of me gets a little ticked when there’s hardly a statement that condemns people who try and use these videos as 100 percent fact or as a reason to insult others. No, you can’t control what your fanbase does, but you can make it clear that you do not support those and that you condemn those who support you that attack others for their likes. I’m glad she had more of a disclaimer now, but these videos are not end-all fact. Like people can’t even make Bramblestar or Bumblestripe content without people attacking it and being nasty and quoting these videos as scripture. It’s just so frustrating. i agree. anyone with an audience should be mindful of how their words come across. people interpret things different and get different messages.
|
|
Aroace
#ffa100
Name Colour
𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑
Villain Enjoyer
Taking a break from the forums because my cat died. Will probably be back mid to late October.
|
Post by 𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑 on Aug 16, 2021 8:56:54 GMT -5
Good video. I'm glad she was more nuanced on the issue of liking vs. disliking Bramblestar. However, I do have one issue, I wish that she didn't talk about using the canon facts in her arguments like it's the truth- because people can have different interpretations of the events that happen in canon, and all interpretations (except the more problematic ones) are equally valid as it's simply a matter of everyone's different perspectives on that canon event. Trying to push your interpretation as the only true one is really rude and narrow-minded. I wish she had clarified on that. Agreed! I distinctively remember that Moonkitti went off in her "Bramblstar is Worse" video on a specfic thing that Brambleclaw said to Squirrelflight in TNP in regards to Ashfur, it was something like "You want a tom that clears away all obstacles from your path." and Moonkitti interpreted it as if he was saying that Squirrelflight isn't allowed to be happy. I found it strange because, in my opinion, what Brambleclaw actually meant by this was "You want a knight in shining amour who fights all of your battles for you." and, while he was clearly wrong about it, I didn't find any offense in his statement as it was only an incorrect assumption on his part and not an instance of controlling behaviour or anything. Squirrelflight later proved multiple times that she didn't want someone like this at all so I'm still not sure what Moonkitti's issue was here.
|
|
|
Post by Moonblazer on Aug 16, 2021 9:16:56 GMT -5
Good video. I'm glad she was more nuanced on the issue of liking vs. disliking Bramblestar. However, I do have one issue, I wish that she didn't talk about using the canon facts in her arguments like it's the truth- because people can have different interpretations of the events that happen in canon, and all interpretations (except the more problematic ones) are equally valid as it's simply a matter of everyone's different perspectives on that canon event. Trying to push your interpretation as the only true one is really rude and narrow-minded. I wish she had clarified on that. Agreed! I distinctively remember that Moonkitti went off in her "Bramblstar is Worse" video on a specfic thing that Brambleclaw said to Squirrelflight in TNP in regards to Ashfur, it was something like "You want a tom that clears away all obstacles from your path." and Moonkitti interpreted it as if he was saying that Squirrelflight isn't allowed to be happy. I found it strange because, in my opinion, what Brambleclaw actually meant by this was "You want a knight in shining amour who fights all of your battles for you." and, while he was clearly wrong about it, I didn't find any offense in his statement as it was only an incorrect assumption on his part and not an instance of controlling behaviour or anything. Squirrelflight later proved multiple times that she didn't want someone like this at all so I'm still not sure what Moonkitti's issue was here. This is the issue. She interprets a cat’s opinion as horrendous abuse and controlling behavior when Squirrelflight does the exact same??? It’s an accusation, not a factual statement, but apparently every argument in existence is abuse so I dunno. Brambleclaw/star is not allowed to ever make a wrong assumption in his life I guess.
|
|
Aroace
#ffa100
Name Colour
𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑
Villain Enjoyer
Taking a break from the forums because my cat died. Will probably be back mid to late October.
|
Post by 𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑 on Aug 16, 2021 11:08:38 GMT -5
Agreed! I distinctively remember that Moonkitti went off in her "Bramblstar is Worse" video on a specfic thing that Brambleclaw said to Squirrelflight in TNP in regards to Ashfur, it was something like "You want a tom that clears away all obstacles from your path." and Moonkitti interpreted it as if he was saying that Squirrelflight isn't allowed to be happy. I found it strange because, in my opinion, what Brambleclaw actually meant by this was "You want a knight in shining amour who fights all of your battles for you." and, while he was clearly wrong about it, I didn't find any offense in his statement as it was only an incorrect assumption on his part and not an instance of controlling behaviour or anything. Squirrelflight later proved multiple times that she didn't want someone like this at all so I'm still not sure what Moonkitti's issue was here. This is the issue. She interprets a cat’s opinion as horrendous abuse and controlling behavior when Squirrelflight does the exact same??? It’s an accusation, not a factual statement, but apparently every argument in existence is abuse so I dunno. Brambleclaw/star is not allowed to ever make a wrong assumption in his life I guess. That's what I noticed a few times in her (in my opinion biased in favour of Squirrelflight) "Bramblestar is Worse" video as well, Moonkitti always defends Squirrelflight (and her more angry moments) even when she's in the wrong but whenever Bramblestar is furious about something with her even when he's in the right, all of his outbursts or actions except for one are labeled as abusive by Moonkitti (the only time she didn't was when he found out the truth about the Original Three). And yes, I did see some instances where his behaviour was written in a way that (probably unintentionally) mirrored abusive tactics in real life but this can also be blamed on how some of his reactions are written out sloppily by the authors. Now, I'm not saying that all of Moonkitti's interpretations of canon scenes are false but some of them sure seem to be soely judged on the basis of her own bias in regards to certain characters.
|
|
|
Post by Aqua on Aug 16, 2021 11:18:15 GMT -5
I started watching it, and her comments about Bumblestripe make me wonder if she's aware that there are people out there who are terrible at reading others? Like, from what I remember, Dovewing actually never said she didn't want to be with Bumblestripe, and some people are just bad at reading the energies of others, and you have to tell them straight, or they won't know. I'm not blaming Dovewing btw, because I know how hard it is to tell people how you truly feel, especially when you're afraid of hurting them, but it seems like Bumblestripe is expected to be some mind reader or something when he clearly seems to be lacking in the ability to pick up on certain social cues, which is something that actually happens.
I did like her closing message at the end though. The youtube fandom hatred for Bumblestripe confuses me a lot because weren't Dovewing and Bumblestripe literally mates for a little bit? Dovewing broke it off in the end because she realized her feelings weren't as serious as his. Or am I just remembering this all incorrectly? A lot of people don't like Bumblestripe because he's very rude to her and clingy. He critizes her every move and he doesn't respect her space when she wants to be alone. Even BEFORE they were together he has always been like this. Then that blasted bonus scene, Bumblestripe doesn't leave Dovewing alone when he asks for her to have kits with him, years after they've broken up a long time ago. It's not a healthy relationship, and both characters treated each other like trash. Dovewing used Bumblestripe to try to move on with Tigerheart and ended up breaking his heart by abandoning him to ShadowClan. She also constantly snapped at him and used him as her "scratching post". Both characters deserves better, and they were both very unhealthy for each other. It was a toxic relationship with both characters never understanding one another very well for what they needed and Dovewing and Bumblestripe never respected each other from the start. The only reason Dovewing got with him is because she was pressured by his clan and wanted to try to move on from Tigerheart; she knew it wasn't fair, she knew she didn't have genuine feelings for him, and ended up breaking his heart, and Bumblestripe gained bitter feelings toward her after she left him. They were horrible and I really don't understand why people like them together so much tbh. Granted, Dovewing's behavior is so much worse here, but Bumblestripe never understood her or how she felt or what she wanted, critized her every move and then acted really weird in the Shattered Sky bonus scene about kits when she clearly told him no. Fans don't like Bumblestripe because he's a weird perv who won't keep it in his pants years after Dovewing left him. It's creepy and honestly gross. I'm asking other forumers politely: I'm not asking for a debate with people on here; I'm just explaining why people don't like Bumblestripe with Dovewing. So please, don't debate with me and the "facts". Thanks.
|
|