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Post by Chicken on Aug 12, 2021 18:57:25 GMT -5
It was pretty cool, I was neutral on Mudclaw before, but now I like him, and I feel really sorry for him, though I wish he would have thought things out more, and took a different path. Anyway, I'm not going to write out a long post, because it's too hot, but if anyone has any questions about my thoughts on this manga, I will answer them.
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Post by Aqua on Aug 12, 2021 19:53:22 GMT -5
I personally don't feel sorry for Mudclaw, but I sympathized with him a lot and his worries and protection for his clan. I thought it was a decent book; his behavior was exactly how I'd expect him to act. But his stress isn't an excuse to attempt to murder, and I hate how the book near the end threw the "you felt bad, so it's okay" card. Mudclaw was horrible to his Clanmates and his leader. And coming from TALLSTAR. The leader who wanted to prevent all of this from happening. Seriously? So other than that little issue I have with it, I thought the book was fine. Mudclaw was well written, it's interesting how he was indecisive about what's wrong or right, had a fleshed-out personality that made me understand him a lot more. I don't sympathize with his actions and how he treated others and his Clanmates, but the way how he did all of this because he truly believed it was the right thing to do, with his dedication and loyalty to his clan, made me understand him a whole lot more as a character. Granted, this was obviously shown in the series itself in TNP, but I still think it's nice that they gave him more of a personality of him worrying so much and being really petty instead of a regular rebellious character who's mad because they don't agree with their ways. This was a cat who felt truly upset because he lost his status as deputy and became super petty because of that and that shit was interesting for me to read about and I loved how he was in character for it too. Mudclaw is decent. Not the best written character in the entire world, but definitely one of the Erins' best antagonists. And that's saying a lot from me because I despised him before.
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Post by roseberry on Aug 12, 2021 21:42:42 GMT -5
I personally don't feel sorry for Mudclaw, but I sympathized with him a lot and his worries and protection for his clan. I thought it was a decent book; his behavior was exactly how I'd expect him to act. But his stress isn't an excuse to attempt to murder, and I hate how the book near the end threw the "you felt bad, so it's okay" card. Mudclaw was horrible to his Clanmates and his leader. And coming from TALLSTAR. The leader who wanted to prevent all of this from happening. Seriously? So other than that little issue I have with it, I thought the book was fine. Mudclaw was well written, it's interesting how he was indecisive about what's wrong or right, had a fleshed-out personality that made me understand him a lot more. I don't sympathize with his actions and how he treated others and his Clanmates, but the way how he did all of this because he truly believed it was the right thing to do, with his dedication and loyalty to his clan, made me understand him a whole lot more as a character. Granted, this was obviously shown in the series itself in TNP, but I still think it's nice that they gave him more of a personality of him worrying so much and being really petty instead of a regular rebellious character who's mad because they don't agree with their ways. This was a cat who felt truly upset because he lost his status as deputy and became super petty because of that and that shit was interesting for me to read about and I loved how he was in character for it too. Mudclaw is decent. Not the best written character in the entire world, but definitely one of the Erins' best antagonists. And that's saying a lot from me because I despised him before. Fully agree. In my opinion, he doesn't deserve really too much sympathy. I mean, he did try to murder out of jealousy. Still liked the way he was written though. I think Mudclaw was an eh character to me.
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Post by Chicken on Aug 12, 2021 22:18:44 GMT -5
roseberryIt wasn't out of jealousy that he tried to murder Onestar, he did feel slighted yes, and rightfully so, but the whole time, the thing on his mind was to keep WindClan safe, which is no different than a lot of other characters who get excused and redeemed. And unlike other characters, he didn't get to go on to lead his clan, he was punished and killed and he regretted it even before he died.
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Post by roseberry on Aug 12, 2021 23:02:14 GMT -5
roseberry It wasn't out of jealousy that he tried to murder Onestar, he did feel slighted yes, and rightfully so, but the whole time, the thing on his mind was to keep WindClan safe, which is no different than a lot of other characters who get excused and redeemed. And unlike other characters, he didn't get to go on to lead his clan, he was punished and killed and he regretted it even before he died. Oh sorry for the mishap
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Post by Chicken on Aug 12, 2021 23:20:01 GMT -5
roseberry It wasn't out of jealousy that he tried to murder Onestar, he did feel slighted yes, and rightfully so, but the whole time, the thing on his mind was to keep WindClan safe, which is no different than a lot of other characters who get excused and redeemed. And unlike other characters, he didn't get to go on to lead his clan, he was punished and killed and he regretted it even before he died. Oh sorry for the mishap It's okay, I'm sorry if my post came across as sounding angry, I was a little irritated at the moment.
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Aug 12, 2021 23:55:24 GMT -5
I personally couldn't sympathize with Mudclaw for the most part. Tallstar shouldn't have left him out in the first place, but Mudclaw had proven to be reckless as well as an attempted murderer because he was desperate and jealous.
And yes, he was jealous. He wanted what was best for WindClan, but this doesn't change the fact that envy also played at least some sort of role in his actions, even if it wasn't stated outright and even if it was just initially. After all, Hawkfrost was able to take advantage of him for a reason, and Onewhisker being very much the softer—and in Mudclaw's mind, weaker—of the two obviously didn't help. Mudclaw was chosen as deputy to serve as a balance to Tallstar's kindness, so it must've seemed like WindClan was regressing if cats like Onewhisker and Ashfoot—who Mudclaw also considered killing—were in charge now.
Wanting what's best for someone and feeling jealous aren't necessarily mutually exclusive.
That said, the book really made me wish Tornear had succeeded Tallstar instead.
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Post by Chicken on Aug 13, 2021 0:13:16 GMT -5
I personally couldn't sympathize with Mudclaw for the most part. Tallstar shouldn't have left him out in the first place, but Mudclaw had proven to be reckless as well as an attempted murderer because he was desperate and jealous. And yes, he was jealous. He wanted what was best for WindClan, but this doesn't change the fact that envy also played at least some sort of role in his actions, even if it wasn't stated outright and even if it was just initially. After all, Hawkfrost was able to take advantage of him for a reason, and Onewhisker being very much the softer—and in Mudclaw's mind, weaker—of the two obviously didn't help. Mudclaw was chosen as deputy to serve as a balance to Tallstar's kindness, so it must've seemed like WindClan was regressing if cats like Onewhisker and Ashfoot—who Mudclaw also considered killing—were in charge now. Wanting what's best for someone and feeling jealous aren't necessarily mutually exclusive. That said, the book really made me wish Tornear had succeeded Tallstar instead. Agreed 100% about Tornear. I never said he wasn't jealous, just that it wasn't the only reason he did what he did. I know it played a part in it, but it wasn't the main or only factor.
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Post by Chicken on Aug 13, 2021 1:57:52 GMT -5
I also think I should say so there is no confusion, is that even though I feel sorry for Mudclaw, doesn't exactly mean that I agree with him, or feel that he was right. It is possible to sympathize with someone and not agree with everything they do, or even to like them. However, with what happened with Tallstar and Hawkfrost, that must have felt like one huge betrayal after another to him, and even though Tallstar didn't mean to make him feel betrayed, that doesn't change the fact that he did feel that way, and knowing the pain of feeling betrayed makes it pretty easy for me to sympathize with him.
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