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Post by Fire the Watcher of the vale on Jul 20, 2021 0:44:26 GMT -5
no, because if the leader has given an order that goes against the code, it violates their oath to uphold the warrior code and as such, grants the warrior the freedom to choose not to.
If a warrior refuses an order from a deputy, is it a violation of the warrior code, considering that it doesn't say anything about deputies?
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Post by nowarriornameshere on Jul 20, 2021 1:07:09 GMT -5
It is, as the leader has placed the deputy in authority personally, and as such means that defying the deputy's authority is tantamount to defying the leader's authority. The main exception would be if the deputy has either given orders that directly contradict the leader's or if the deputy's orders are in direct contradiction to the code.
A Windclan warrior is out on a midnight stroll when he happens across the Thunderclan medicine cat getting nice and cozy with a Shadowclan she-cat. He decides against bringing this up to anybody else, reasoning that it's Thunderclan and Shadowclan business and therefore none of his. Has he broken the code?
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Post by Fire the Watcher of the vale on Jul 20, 2021 1:16:00 GMT -5
Well it might, depending on specific circumstances. Where was the windclan warrior at when he just so happened to find the thunderclan medicine cat and shadowclan she-cat? If they are on windclan territory, yes, he is in violation because all trespassers must be challenged and it is his duty to report this to the clan leader. If it was on the windclan border and the others were in either thunderclan or shadowclan borders, no, because it does not pertain to windclan, though it may come in use to windclan, given that they could theoretically blackmail the medicine cat for whatever reason they may have.
If a thunderclan medicine cat only has the herbs to save one cat from greencough and another clan's medicine cat begs for herbs to save a sick kit, is the thunderclan cat obligated to give them their herbs, considering that they may be jeopardizing their own clanmates' health?
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Post by downfalls on Jul 20, 2021 3:55:09 GMT -5
this is a hard one, but the code says to save kits first since they're the most vulnerable to death. i would say no.
an apprentice takes prey for themselves when the elders need it without knowing. is this breaking the code?
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Post by Rainsplash on Jul 20, 2021 5:28:47 GMT -5
Yes, the code says the queens and elders should eat first.
Is it breaking the code when a warrior hides a very important secret from the deputy but not the leader?
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Post by 🔥Firestar🔥 on Jul 20, 2021 5:35:29 GMT -5
It is not breaking the code, but it's morally wrong.
Is it breaking the code when a warrior has plotted the death of their leader, even if they didin't go along with it?
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Post by Fire the Watcher of the vale on Jul 20, 2021 7:19:22 GMT -5
Yes, because it would be disloyal to their clan, especially if they are plotting with others. Now, if they were doing this by themself and decides not to do it, it would be hard to prosecute, given that nothing happened and there is no evidence.
Is it breaking the code if a warrior and a medicine cat develop feelings for each other, are very close, but never actually have kits?
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Post by downfalls on Jul 20, 2021 9:32:59 GMT -5
yes considering that med cats cannot have mates at all because they need to focus
two leaders from different clans are mates. is this breaking the code?
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Post by Lionstrike on Jul 20, 2021 9:59:03 GMT -5
Certainly. There are meant to be no relationships in-between-clan, let alone two leaders.
A cat from another clan wanders into your territory. Your friend immediately attacks. Is this a code break?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2021 10:59:31 GMT -5
Not by your friend, but by you maybe if you just stood there, the code says challenge all trespassing cats.
If another clan is at risk of starving to death, and you give food to them without your leader's permission, and they end up surviving, which they wouldn't have otherwise, is this breaking the code? Remember, the last code states that all codes must help each other survive.
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Post by Rainsplash on Jul 20, 2021 21:17:56 GMT -5
Firepaw gave prey to Yellowfang and was punished. I'd say this isn't strictly against the warrior code but it kind of is since your Clan is priority.
Is it breaking the code when the leader orders the deputy to kill someone and the deputy refuses?
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Post by Skypaw13 on Jul 20, 2021 21:26:43 GMT -5
Firepaw gave prey to Yellowfang and was punished. I'd say this isn't strictly against the warrior code but it kind of is since your Clan is priority. Just gonna jump in and point out that the 16th Code (requiring the Clans to look out for each other's continued existence, if not their best interest) didn't exist when Firepaw was punished for feeding Yellowfang, so it's not really comparable. Yellowfang was also one cat and it wasn't like all of ShadowClan was at risk. There's also a Warriors play that explicitly says feeding other Clans is okay with the code as long as your Clan can spare the food. In this play, Jay, Lion, and Holly all express concern over breaking the Code in this manner, but the StarClan cats repeatedly say "the Warrior Code doesn't say anything about this, so it's okay".
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Post by Rainsplash on Jul 20, 2021 21:37:33 GMT -5
Firepaw gave prey to Yellowfang and was punished. I'd say this isn't strictly against the warrior code but it kind of is since your Clan is priority. Just gonna jump in and point out that the 16th Code (requiring the Clans to look out for each other's continued existence, if not their best interest) didn't exist when Firepaw was punished for feeding Yellowfang, so it's not really comparable. Yellowfang was also one cat and it wasn't like all of ShadowClan was at risk. There's also a Warriors play that explicitly says feeding other Clans is okay with the code as long as your Clan can spare the food. In this play, Jay, Lion, and Holly all express concern over breaking the Code in this manner, but the StarClan cats repeatedly say "the Warrior Code doesn't say anything about this, so it's okay". Oh I forgot about the 16th code I always forget it exists.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2021 21:42:25 GMT -5
Just gonna jump in and point out that the 16th Code (requiring the Clans to look out for each other's continued existence, if not their best interest) didn't exist when Firepaw was punished for feeding Yellowfang, so it's not really comparable. Yellowfang was also one cat and it wasn't like all of ShadowClan was at risk. There's also a Warriors play that explicitly says feeding other Clans is okay with the code as long as your Clan can spare the food. In this play, Jay, Lion, and Holly all express concern over breaking the Code in this manner, but the StarClan cats repeatedly say "the Warrior Code doesn't say anything about this, so it's okay". Oh I forgot about the 16th code I always forget it exists. So did Onestar and StarClan
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Post by Skypaw13 on Jul 20, 2021 22:25:29 GMT -5
Anyway, to get things back on track:
Yes, the code has been broken. Code 14 allows warriors to kill cats acting outside the warrior code, and even if it didn't, the Leader himself isn't killing anyone. So the deputy is breaking Code 13 (I think) by refusing to follow his leader's orders. This is why everyone hates Code 13.
ShadowClan is suffering a greencough outbreak and has no catmint. ThunderClan is also suffering a greencough outbreak and has only a tiny amount of catmint (not enough to treat all their cats, only some). ShadowClan takes a ThunderClan apprentice hostage to bargain for herbs. The ThunderClan leader agrees to the exchange.
Has the ThunderClan leader broken the code by not putting his sick Clanmates first?
(Yes, I just summarized a side plot from OotS, lol)
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Post by Fire the Watcher of the vale on Jul 21, 2021 7:21:34 GMT -5
No, because the apprentice is in immediate danger to where it is very possible for cats to recover from greencough without catmint.
Is having kits with a she-cat from another clan against the code if the relationship was purely, uh, physical? I mean, no real feelings in it, just a "dang, she's pretty" type of situation.
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Post by downfalls on Jul 21, 2021 7:52:15 GMT -5
darn that's a hard one. even i don't know.
shadowclan is fighting with riverclan for herbs. is this against the code?
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Post by Twilight Sparkle on Jul 21, 2021 9:34:35 GMT -5
No, because loyalty to their own Clan is the most important law.
Is it breaking the code to appoint a kit as an apprentice who is way older than six moons (and not due to any sicknesses or injuries)?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2021 9:36:26 GMT -5
They did it with Reedwhisker and he turned out fine, and it seems like it'll be happening with Curlfeather's kits now.
If a cat chooses to save their mate, instead of another clanmate, even though that other clanmate is closer, are they breaking the code?
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Post by Fire the Watcher of the vale on Jul 21, 2021 15:02:33 GMT -5
No, it doesn't matter who's closer. Now if they had to choose between saving their mate or saving the lives of two of their clanmates, then one could argue it was a violation, though I doubt many would be willing to blame them for it. Just about anyone would do the same.
Are medicine cats allowed to give a terminally ill cat death berries to kill them quickly and end their suffering? If they are, does that cat have to agree to it or can the medicine cat make the executive decision to end the cat's life?
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Post by nowarriornameshere on Jul 21, 2021 15:46:38 GMT -5
Ah, euthanasia. How often my teacher back in high school begged me to stop trying to discuss it in class because of how quickly it could get him fired. (I was an ass in high school.) I personally hate it, but there's nothing in the code that speaks against it so long as the patient agrees. Hell, even Leafpool, who also flat out dislikes it, never objected to Littlecloud's use of it on the grounds of the warrior code. However, the patient in question has to agree to it. Otherwise, that's just ****ing murder.
A kitting queen's labor is going terribly, and there's no knowing how it will end. The queen begs the medicine cat to prioritize the health of her kits over hers. However, the queen in question is one of the sharpest and most respected warriors in the clan. It's no secret that the current deputy is growing older, and that the clan's leader is interested in having her step up as deputy within the year. The clan leader discreetly countermands the queen's request and asks the medicine cat to prioritize the queen's health over that of her kits, no matter the cost. The medicine cat listens to his heart and chooses to save the kits, and the queen unfortunately dies. Did the medicine cat break the code?
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Post by Fire the Watcher of the vale on Jul 21, 2021 15:51:44 GMT -5
No because on the matters of clan health, I think through what I'd see as more case law than written law, always falls to the medicine cat. We've seen medicine cats directly contradict a leader if it involved the leader or another warrior's health, so this should be no different. I will say however, they better have another queen that can feed this kits or the medicine cat's decision could be for naught.
If a leader has seriously lost it and isn't capable of making rational decisions, is it within the code for the deputy to seize control of the clan until the leader either dies or becomes capable of rational decision making again?
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