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Post by sparkleeze on Jul 15, 2021 8:17:02 GMT -5
-Before I say anything else, I just wanna say that I haven't finished reading all the book in TBC, so there are things that I might not have known, but I know the general idea of the series-
Opinions on if there is a bit of "warrior cat logic" (cartoon/fantasy logic) breaking in TBC? I feel like the whole "dead cat posses the living" is a bit of a stretch in the science of warriors? It's a very different idea than we've seen before and seems a little far out there- almost a little too unreal for me and weird.
Anyone feel the same way?
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Post by vectoring34 on Jul 15, 2021 8:46:19 GMT -5
All I have to say is that Cinderpelt did it first. The whole possessing someone's body and infecting their mind, she did that to Cinderheart. Ashfur possessing Brambleclaw seems to be pretty much the same thing, except that while Cinderpelt merely shared the room with Cinderheart so to speak, Ashfur snuck in while the body was empty and so this granted him far more control.
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Post by sparkleeze on Jul 15, 2021 9:29:33 GMT -5
All I have to say is that Cinderpelt did it first. The whole possessing someone's body and infecting their mind, she did that to Cinderheart. Ashfur possessing Brambleclaw seems to be pretty much the same thing, except that while Cinderpelt merely shared the room with Cinderheart so to speak, Ashfur snuck in while the body was empty and so this granted him far more control. That is true. Only thing is Cinderheart wasn't really aware she was Cinderpelt, she was -in a sense- a completely different cat, but not at the same time. Ashfur kept his own mind when he possessed Brambleclaw, which I suppose would be easier to do with no one inside, but it still rattles my brain xD
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Post by vectoring34 on Jul 15, 2021 9:57:33 GMT -5
All I have to say is that Cinderpelt did it first. The whole possessing someone's body and infecting their mind, she did that to Cinderheart. Ashfur possessing Brambleclaw seems to be pretty much the same thing, except that while Cinderpelt merely shared the room with Cinderheart so to speak, Ashfur snuck in while the body was empty and so this granted him far more control. That is true. Only thing is Cinderheart wasn't really aware she was Cinderpelt, she was -in a sense- a completely different cat, but not at the same time. Ashfur kept his own mind when he possessed Brambleclaw, which I suppose would be easier to do with no one inside, but it still rattles my brain xD I would argue that's exactly the reason that Ashfur demanded for Shadowsight to handle Brambleclaw the way he did. He needed the old tenant out of there so he could keep his own mind and keeping Brambleclaw dead for as long as possible in order to weaken his soul even further was the best way to achieve that. We never saw with Cinderheart because Cinderpelt never had any intention of doing so.
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Asexual
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Ṣanɗypaw™
The Shiny User
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Post by Ṣanɗypaw™ on Jul 15, 2021 17:12:28 GMT -5
I don't think there's any logic stretching involved with the whole possession plot- as Vectoring said, it's been done before and I think that the Erins are just expanding on that plot now.
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Post by Skypaw13 on Jul 15, 2021 18:20:02 GMT -5
For me it's not so much overt breaks in logic as it is missing logic. There's a lot of stuff in TBC that's weird and never been seen before and simply isn't explained. Now, every arc has something weird and new happening, but all of them at least attempted to explain it, either by explaining why it's new, or saying it's been happening the whole time and the cats just didn't notice before. But in TBC, no one really seems to care? It's just really frustrating to read a book where not only is the new magic not explained, it's not even speculated on.
For example, Cinderpelt possibly possessing Cinderheart as a precedent for Ashfur actually possessing Brambleclaw*. While that's a consistent theory and would be a good explanation, no one in-universe has even thought of that. That's what makes TBC feel so inconsistent and nonsensical. There ARE good explanations for things, but none of the cats are even trying to make theories as to why what's happening is happening, so the whole thing feels completely arbitrary and hard to follow.
*gonna be real, I don't even like this premise. Cinderpelt was never actually confirmed to be possessing Cinderheart, that's just the most common fandom explanation for wtf happened with that whole plotline.
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Post by vectoring34 on Jul 15, 2021 19:02:34 GMT -5
For me it's not so much overt breaks in logic as it is missing logic. There's a lot of stuff in TBC that's weird and never been seen before and simply isn't explained. Now, every arc has something weird and new happening, but all of them at least attempted to explain it, either by explaining why it's new, or saying it's been happening the whole time and the cats just didn't notice before. But in TBC, no one really seems to care? It's just really frustrating to read a book where not only is the new magic not explained, it's not even speculated on. For example, Cinderpelt possibly possessing Cinderheart as a precedent for Ashfur actually possessing Brambleclaw*. While that's a consistent theory and would be a good explanation, no one in-universe has even thought of that. That's what makes TBC feel so inconsistent and nonsensical. There ARE good explanations for things, but none of the cats are even trying to make theories as to why what's happening is happening, so the whole thing feels completely arbitrary and hard to follow. *gonna be real, I don't even like this premise. Cinderpelt was never actually confirmed to be possessing Cinderheart, that's just the most common fandom explanation for wtf happened with that whole plotline. Cinderpelt's memories were literally embedded into Cinderheart and we see her spirit ascending from her in The Last Hope, there's no doubt about the spirit getting inside of her.
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Post by Skypaw13 on Jul 15, 2021 20:14:17 GMT -5
*gonna be real, I don't even like this premise. Cinderpelt was never actually confirmed to be possessing Cinderheart, that's just the most common fandom explanation for wtf happened with that whole plotline. Cinderpelt's memories were literally embedded into Cinderheart and we see her spirit ascending from her in The Last Hope, there's no doubt about the spirit getting inside of her. The spirit was present, but that's not necessarily the same thing as controlling or possession in my opinion, and I've just personally never liked the theory that it was. But I don't mind if other people have that theory, it does make sense, and my actual argument on this thread's topic even assumed it was true. I was just putting an extra comment that it's not something I like. Really it's an unrelated comment.
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Jul 15, 2021 22:47:35 GMT -5
Cinderpelt's memories were literally embedded into Cinderheart and we see her spirit ascending from her in The Last Hope, there's no doubt about the spirit getting inside of her. The spirit was present, but that's not necessarily the same thing as controlling or possession in my opinion, and I've just personally never liked the theory that it was. But I don't mind if other people have that theory, it does make sense, and my actual argument on this thread's topic even assumed it was true. I was just putting an extra comment that it's not something I like. Really it's an unrelated comment. the cinderpelt "possession/shadowing" thing was stupid anyways, and now im assuming they're using that situation as an excuse to retcon and force some lore to make this ashfur thing happen in TBC...which i hate and find massively annoying. cinderpelt didn't possess cinderheart. she was shadowing from within her in the background of her mind, hence why some feelings and memories might have leaked through, but not outright take over her or push cinderheart out completely.
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Post by turquoiselynx on Jul 17, 2021 2:33:02 GMT -5
I thought Cinderpelt stuff was sort of reincarnation that ended with Cinderpelt part breaking off from Cinderheart or something. Anyway I felt there was enough description about Cinderpelt's desire that was never fulfilled. On the other hand, Ashfur possessing Bramblestar and controlling is body.. is just weird and dramatic.
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